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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Funny we have been saying most of the same stuff about our current QB. He should fit right in. 

Yeah, parallel projections.  

I will say that I thought Wentz was cerebral enough that he'd learn from his mistakes and make adjustments to his game, but seems like he's repeating the same mistakes over and over.  Mainly, holding on to the ball too long.  As a QB you have to have that clock in your head that tells you to either roll outside the tackle box and throw it away or tuck it and take the F off.  Taking that sack for a FRIGGIN' THIRTEEN YARD LOSS is inexcusable.  It goes from a 40yd FG to a 53yd FG and guess what?  We missed the damned FG.  

Yes, our OL today was makeshift, but as the QB you should know this and adjust your game to put your team in the best position to win.  Up 17-0 with less than 2 minutes in the 1st half and you turn the ball over on a 1st down play on your side of the field?  He has to be better than that.

I'm not giving up on him for now, but I need to see that he has the ability to learn from his mistakes, correct them and become better.  That's what truly elite talent does.

 

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16 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

Trevor Lawrence had an amazing frosh year, but since hasn't looked as good.  Burrow smoked him in the NCAA Championship game and look how his rookie debut started.  I'm not sold on TL.  IMO, he's NOT a sure thing lock that you tank for.  He has a long ways to go.

 

The Eagles need to let Wentz and Hurts battle it out in camp next year and use next year's draft to address the trenches, especially the OL.  Build the trenches back up.  Also, try to get another RB that can handle the load. I don't think Sanders can be an every down back and handle 20 to 30 touches a game. I don't think he will hold up.  I think Sanders will do better getting 10 to 15 touches a game.

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1 minute ago, Green_Guinness said:

Yeah, parallel projections.  

I will say that I thought Wentz was cerebral enough that he'd learn from his mistakes and make adjustments to his game, but seems like he's repeating the same mistakes over and over.  Mainly, holding on to the ball too long.  As a QB you have to have that clock in your head that tells you to either roll outside the tackle box and throw it away or tuck it and take the F off.  Taking that sack for a FRIGGIN' THIRTEEN YARD LOSS is inexcusable.  It goes from a 40yd FG to a 53yd FG and guess what?  We missed the damned FG.  

Yes, our OL today was makeshift, but as the QB you should know this and adjust your game to put your team in the best position to win.  Up 17-0 with less than 2 minutes in the 1st half and you turn the ball over on a 1st down play on your side of the field?  He has to be better than that.

I'm not giving up on him for now, but I need to see that he has the ability to learn from his mistakes, correct them and become better.  That's what truly elite talent does.

 

Sadly it seems when anyone on the team or the coaches are too critical of Carson they get axed or become ostracized from the team. Is there anyone left to challenge Carson to become better? 

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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Sadly it seems when anyone on the team or the coaches are too critical of Carson they get axed or become ostracized from the team. Is there anyone left to challenge Carson to become better? 

You would hope he's not being coddled and is being challenged.  

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1 minute ago, Green_Guinness said:

You would hope he's not being coddled and is being challenged.  

That isn’t the case and that is why there were so many players (at least 6) who came out anonymously against Carson for fear of reprisals. I can’t help but to wonder how many of those guys are no longer Eagles players or coaches because they dared to challenge Carson. 

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1 minute ago, 315Eagles said:

Jeez....kinda overreacting a little?

14-14 in his last 28 starts. That’s hardly elite my friend. 

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16 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

14-14 in his last 28 starts. That’s hardly elite my friend. 

If you read any of my posts in the game day thread I said a few times that Wentz is not elite and wont be.  We all need to realize that. 

Its year 5 and he is still:

Throwing high.

Holding the ball too long.

Has no pocket presence.

Doesnt secure the ball in the pocket leading to fumbles.

Wont throw it away to avoid a sack.

Wont slide or go out of bounds to avoid hits and also leads to fumbles.

If anyone thinks he's elite(Colin Cowherd, Dan Orlovsky) then they're fooling themselves.  He is not.  However, he is still a good QB.  He has flaws and has bad games sometimes but he's still a good QB.  McNabb was never elite and played just as bad sometimes yet we rode with him thru good and bad.  Wentz is a better QB than McNabb.

Not like we can just easily get a Mahomes, Russell Wilson or Rodgers in the draft or FA.  Elite QBs are just that cuz they're rare.

People saying trade him are overreacting?  Yes, big time.

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7 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

If you read any of my posts in the game day thread I said a few times that Wentz is not elite and wont be.  We all need to realize that. 

Its year 5 and he is still:

Throwing high.

Holding the ball too long.

Has no pocket presence.

Doesnt secure the ball in the pocket leading to fumbles.

Wont throw it away to avoid a sack.

Wont slide or go out of bounds to avoid hits and also leads to fumbles.

If anyone thinks he's elite(Colin Cowherd, Dan Orlovsky) then they're fooling themselves.  He is not.  However, he is still a good QB.  He has flaws and has bad games sometimes but he's still a good QB.  McNabb was never elite and played just as bad sometimes yet we rode with him thru good and bad.  Wentz is a better QB than McNabb.

Not like we can just easily get a Mahomes, Russell Wilson or Rodgers in the draft or FA.  Elite QBs are just that cuz they're rare.

The problem is Carson wasn’t billed to be just good. He’s made to be called elite, and frankly he isn’t for all the reasons you mentioned. With that being the case the Eagles don’t need a guy who’s dominating so much of their cap space just to be slightly better than McNabb. What you’re saying is Wentz is slightly above a game manager and as such he shouldn’t be throwing the ball 40 plus times a game. 

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Un-coachable, basically. Very talented, smart guy, sometimes brilliant, sometimes awful, does not improve, will not change. Which is curious, because he has shown the ability and willingness to learn and grow with respect to leadership, social justice concerns of teammates, etc. But he will not get the ball out, will not throw it away, will not protect the football. 5 years in, this is who he is. 

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I've said this multiple times today, but Wentz always wants the big play instead of the smart play.

Throw the ball away instead of trying to avoid a sack. Go down and protect yourself instead of trying to escape a sack. 

Take a play that moves the freaking chains instead of the big play. 

The guy refuses to adapt his game and it is getting old.

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7 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

I've said this multiple times today, but Wentz always wants the big play instead of the smart play.

Throw the ball away instead of trying to avoid a sack. Go down and protect yourself instead of trying to escape a sack. 

Take a play that moves the freaking chains instead of the big play. 

The guy refuses to adapt his game and it is getting old.

I'm having PTSD flashbacks to the Carolina game where he had a RB wide open in the flat, yet he forced a throw in the endzone on 4th down at the end of the game. It really is getting old.

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18 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

I've said this multiple times today, but Wentz always wants the big play instead of the smart play.

Throw the ball away instead of trying to avoid a sack. Go down and protect yourself instead of trying to escape a sack. 

Take a play that moves the freaking chains instead of the big play. 

The guy refuses to adapt his game and it is getting old.

This is actually rather fair.  He has said that he fancies himself as a Favre-like gunslinger type, but you need to be smarter than bolder.  It's good to have courage and confidence, but playing smart and knowing when to let that courage and confidence loose is another thing entirely.

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Here’s the Carson Wentz inconvenient truth. He’s far too inconsistent and far too injury prone to take the risks that he does with the football and with his body. 

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3 minutes ago, judunno said:

Turnover machine. I could live with everything else if he wasn't so carless with the ball.

True.  If he's going to hold onto the ball that long then he has to learn how to protect it, which he has NOT done to this point.

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48 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The problem is Carson wasn’t billed to be just good. He’s made to be called elite, and frankly he isn’t for all the reasons you mentioned. With that being the case the Eagles don’t need a guy who’s dominating so much of their cap space just to be slightly better than McNabb. What you’re saying is Wentz is slightly above a game manager and as such he shouldn’t be throwing the ball 40 plus times a game. 

I believe Wentz is better than McNabb.  

I didnt say slightly better or slightly above a game manager.  I just feel he's a better, more talented QB than 5.  How much better?  Not really sure.  Both have flaws.

If they dont have Wentz then who is better?  Sudfeld?  Hurts?  Would Dak do any better with this team?  How bout Goff?  

Who really thought he is elite?  A few in the media like I mentioned Cowherd or Orlovsky.  Maybe some Eagles fans thought so.  Alot of us thought this after 2017.  He seemed like he was heading that way but sadly it's not the case.  However, it's not a crime that hes not elite.  We could get Foles back?  Maybe we end up with a top 2 pick and get Lawrence.  What if he's worse?  

 

 

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7 hours ago, 315Eagles said:

I believe Wentz is better than McNabb.  

I didnt say slightly better or slightly above a game manager.  I just feel he's a better, more talented QB than 5.  How much better?  Not really sure.  Both have flaws.

If they dont have Wentz then who is better?  Sudfeld?  Hurts?  Would Dak do any better with this team?  How bout Goff?  

Who really thought he is elite?  A few in the media like I mentioned Cowherd or Orlovsky.  Maybe some Eagles fans thought so.  Alot of us thought this after 2017.  He seemed like he was heading that way but sadly it's not the case.  However, it's not a crime that hes not elite.  We could get Foles back?  Maybe we end up with a top 2 pick and get Lawrence.  What if he's worse?  

 

 

Dak and Goff at least stay healthy. Maybe they groom Hurts and he ends up like Lamar Jackson. Wentz isn’t elite so it’s not like he’s untouchable. For all the McNabb hate at least by this point he had multiple playoff Wins under his belt. Wentz not so much. 

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51 minutes ago, Runtherock said:

Un-coachable, basically. Very talented, smart guy, sometimes brilliant, sometimes awful, does not improve, will not change. Which is curious, because he has shown the ability and willingness to learn and grow with respect to leadership, social justice concerns of teammates, etc. But he will not get the ball out, will not throw it away, will not protect the football. 5 years in, this is who he is. 

I believe he is a good QB but wont ever be elite like we hoped.

He will do well if they do as your name says.....run the rock.  He needs a run game and at least a solid O-line to win games.  He's not good enough to carry a team to a win against better competition.

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I get what you're saying.  Dak and Goff both make better decisions.  Wentz is too often looking for the homerun.  He'd probably be a better fit with someone like Bruce Arians who loves designing big chunk pass plays that take time to develop.

But if you get rid of Wentz who you replacing him with?  Hurts could end up like Lamar but he could also end up like EJ Manuel too.

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6 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

I get what you're saying.  Dak and Goff both make better decisions.  Wentz is too often looking for the homerun.  He'd probably be a better fit with someone like Bruce Arians who loves designing big chunk pass plays that take time to develop.

But if you get rid of Wentz who you replacing him with?  Hurts could end up like Lamar but he could also end up like EJ Manuel too.

Where are we going with Wentz? He’s clearly not good enough to win the big one while playing like some cowboy risk taker. They can be 8-8 with a game manager than paying Wentz all this money to fumble games away or get injured at key moments. I say let the season play out. If they end up 9-7 or worse then trade Wentz and Ertz and get what you can for them. Start Hurts next season with some sprinkled in snaps this season. If Hurts winds up being bad then you move on. I see no reason to be strapped down to Wentz if he’s just good. 

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44 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

This is actually rather fair.  He has said that he fancies himself as a Favre-like gunslinger type, but you need to be smarter than bolder.  It's good to have courage and confidence, but playing smart and knowing when to let that courage and confidence loose is another thing entirely.

Exactly

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Maybe Wentz isn't what we all hoped for but he's still a very good QB. Those INTs yesterday weren't completely on him. They were good plays made by the DB who was right next to the WR. And the majority of the sacks weren't his fault either. 

Yes we all want more from him and perhaps he's not going to be a top 5 QB like we all hoped and wanted. 

Personally I think they should trade him. Not because he's no good but because this team is no good. This team is light years away from being able to compete. It has holes all over. It is way over the cap and it's time to start fresh including the GM.

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Wentz had a pretty bad game for sure.  But why is it that we can't get through the offseason and week 1 without losing half our starters?

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