2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

[MillerTime]

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

There is still dead cap hits.  Eagles currently have 22 million in dead cap for 2022.  Now you add Brooks as a post June 1, you are up to 28 million in dead cap.  If Kelce also retires, you are then adding another 4.5 million dead, totaling 32.5 million dead in 2022.

The 2022 dead cap calculation also does not yet include all the dummy deals.  You have dead cap hits coming of 7.2 million ( Barnett ) 2.1 million ( McLeod ) 2.4 million ( Anthony Harris ) 1.1 million ( Kerrigan ) 1.5 million ( Nelson )

Adding that to the 32.5 million dead if Kelce also retires, Eagles are looking at potentially 46.8 million dead cap.  41.3 million if Kelce stays.

I know this. The 22 million and the dummy years were always there. We just got 12 million back that we didn’t have for 2022 and already have one of kelce or brooks replacement on the roster who played excellent. We also have 2 other guards who played solid this year. We can now invest in other positions to help make the roster better. 

[greend]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:16 PM, paco said:

Now that the season is over, I wanted to revisit the above:

Cox: Restructured.  Added 2 fake years (2023-2025) and will now have a dead cap hit of $16,912,120 in the first fake year.  So the cap hit after he is gone increases roughly by 13.5 million

Alshon: Cut in 2021.  Has a 2022 dead cap hit of $5,435,706.  Roughly the same.

Ertz:  Traded.  Has a 2022 dead cap hit of $3,548,000.  Same

Lane: Contract remains the same.  

Desean: Released.  Entire dead cap hit was absorbed in 2021

Kelce: I'm honestly wrapping my head around this one still.  If I look at the table it looks like he now has void years 2023-2025 with a 9 million dead cap hit in 2023.  So for this conversation I'm keeping it simple and going with that, especially since he may retire and that opens up a whole other cap discussion.  There are some interesting details I'll put in the spoiler tag below. The change basically pushes his "fake year" to 2023 and increases it by 2 million.

  Hide contents

Kelce signed a new contract with the Eagles in March of 2021. The new contract is a effectively a one year, $9 million contract that includes a $4.5 million raise from his prior salary. The contract contains what are effectively four dummy contract years for salary cap purposes which is designed to allow the Eagles to use a June 1 release on Kelce in 2022. The move created $2.84 million in 2021 cap room for Philadelphia.

Brandon Graham: Received a new 2 year contract.  His fake years are now 2024-2026 to the tune of $10,148,000.  Basically the fake years were pushed back and the dead cap hit was LOWERED by 2 million.  Get well soon, we missed you.

Malik Jackson: Cut.  Dead money for 2022 remains the same.

Darius Slay: Was extended since the original post.  He now has two fake years starting in 2024 to the tune of 4.6 million.  Basically the fake years were pushed back and the dead cap hit was RAISED by 2 million.

Javon Hargrave: Restructured in 2021.  Almost 12 million in salary was converted to bonuses and added a fake year.  As it stands right now, he is still gone in 2023 and that dead cap hit INCREASES by 7 million.

Rodney McLeod: I'm not seeing anything that suggests he restructured, and maybe the original data was wrong, but hes still a FA, but his dead cap hit is showing to be 2.1 million, not 1.8.  Whatever

Isaac Seumalo: Had a small restructure.  They added a fake year and increases his 2023 dead cap hit to 3.8 million, up almost 2 million since the OP.

 

 

Verdict:
For 2022, for the most part everything stayed the same from a dead cap perspective. Kelces fake year was pushed to 2023 (of course if he retires, that's a 13 million dead cap hit if they don't designate him as a June 1st retire), Brandon G was pushed to 2024, Slay signed a new contract and we absorbed all of Desean's contract last year.
2023 had more money pushed to it.  13.5 million for cox, 7 million for Hargrave plus a little more for Seumallo.  So to help 2022, $21 million in dead cap was added to 2023.  He basically took half the pain and shifted it to 2023.  

Final thoughts:
If I hear one more idiot on WIP (both hosts and callers) talk about how we fixed the cap and took our licks in 2021 and now are flush with cash, I'm going to f'n lose it.
 

 I heard we fixed the cap and took our licks in 2021 and now are flush with cash, thoughts?

[Random Reglar]

5 hours ago, downundermike said:

Dickerson has been playing left guard, and if Kelce retires Seumalo or Dickerson are probably moving to center, and the other is staying at LG.   So still need a replacement for Brooks at RG.

Yeah,  but Driscoll and Herbig did a solid job at RG in 2021.   The Eagles don't really need to replace him. 

The Eagles have a lot of very good to very excellent OL right now.  PFF had the Eagles as the 4th best OL,  and that's without Brooks.

The Eagles have excellent at 3 positions,   Mailata,  Kelce, Johnson.    That leaves 2 positions,  and players like Seumalo, Dickerson, Driscoll, Herbig, Opeta and Dillard to fill those 2 positions. 

The Ravens are a similar team to the Eagles.   The Eagles,  even with Brooks gone, have a much better OL. 

PFF link - https://www.pff.com/nfl/teams/philadelphia-eagles/24/roster


Seumalo - 74.8
Dickerson - 69.6

Driscoll - 70.5

Herbig - 68.1
Opeta - 72.9
Dillard - 69.6

They'll figure it out.

The Eagles could definitely use a legit good RB who is big and fast though.

[Procus]

The whole title of this thread is off - there is no "hell" in 2022 with a rising cap.  There are dead cap charges

Who are the Eagles releasing because of cap hell?  (Hint:  nobody)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Procus said:

The whole title of this thread is off - there is no "hell" in 2022 with a rising cap.  There are dead cap charges

Who are the Eagles releasing because of cap hell?  (Hint:  nobody)

Common misconception.  The cap is rising, but not above the 208 million that all these discussions are based on.  When we discuss the 2023 cap, it is based on the 225 million projected cap.  The rising cap has always been accounted for, there is no magical addition that is going to happen.

[Procus]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Common misconception.  The cap is rising, but not above the 208 million that all these discussions are based on.  When we discuss the 2023 cap, it is based on the 225 million projected cap.  The rising cap has always been accounted for, there is no magical addition that is going to happen.

Fine - but where is the "hell" associated with these dead cap charges.  Who do the Eagles have to release to get under the cap in 2022?  What free agents are they prevented from going after?

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Procus said:

Fine - but where is the "hell" associated with these dead cap charges.  Who do the Eagles have to release to get under the cap in 2022?  What free agents are they prevented from going after?

This year they don't have to do a bunch of gymnastics to get under the cap, but almost 50 million in dead cap is bad business.  For the second year in a row, the Eagles are looking at being #1 in dead cap space.

Last year there was free agents at positions of need, and the Eagles were unable to get involved, so now those problems still exist.  Josh Johnson was widely reported to be an Eagles target, but because of the bad cap situation, they were unable to match the 3 year 33 million dollar deal he got from Cleveland. 

With the draft history of Howie Roseman, being able to sign a couple of big ticket FA's is key.  Look at the key FA's that helped win a Super Bowl.  Brandon Brooks and Rodney McLeod both received huge FA deals.  Eagles do not have the resources to do that currently.

[Bwestbrook36]

So what you guys are saying is the cap is dead? And we passed on into hell? Sweet deal

[time2rock]

16 hours ago, Procus said:

The whole title of this thread is off - there is no "hell" in 2022 with a rising cap.  There are dead cap charges

Who are the Eagles releasing because of cap hell?  (Hint:  nobody)

Howie is doing his best now to work his way out of the poor cap situation that we were faced with from the strategy he employed to keep the band together following the championship season thinking our window was wide open and that was the best way to try to capture another.  We had a few key players leave via free agency and needed to free up cap to use to replace them so he made moves (usually restructuring deals of some of our core players that were nearing the end of their prime or were already past).  With how bad the cap situation was a couple years ago, we knew it would take a few seasons to right the ship (following a slow steady process ... which involves using post June 1 designations in order to defer a large % of the dead money to the following year's cap).  We did that with Malik Jackson and Alshon Jeffery last year and this year with Brandon Brooks.  

[Procus]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Howie is doing his best now to work his way out of the poor cap situation that we were faced with from the strategy he employed to keep the band together following the championship season thinking our window was wide open and that was the best way to try to capture another.  We had a few key players leave via free agency and needed to free up cap to use to replace them so he made moves (usually restructuring deals of some of our core players that were nearing the end of their prime or were already past).  With how bad the cap situation was a couple years ago, we knew it would take a few seasons to right the ship (following a slow steady process ... which involves using post June 1 designations in order to defer a large % of the dead money to the following year's cap).  We did that with Malik Jackson and Alshon Jeffery last year and this year with Brandon Brooks.  

I think that was the correct approach.  A team can go all in and tank for a season to clear up the cap, or it can gradually get out of a bad cap situation.  I think the latter in most cases is the better move if there is a salvagable roster.  Otherwise, the squad needs to build itself back up almost from scratch.  In a team sport like football where players form close relationships and often get better after years of bonding and working together, tearing up the whole squad signals a major rebuild and you never quite know how that's going to turn out.

[time2rock]

1 hour ago, Procus said:

I think that was the correct approach.  A team can go all in and tank for a season to clear up the cap, or it can gradually get out of a bad cap situation.  I think the latter in most cases is the better move if there is a salvagable roster.  Otherwise, the squad needs to build itself back up almost from scratch.  In a team sport like football where players form close relationships and often get better after years of bonding and working together, tearing up the whole squad signals a major rebuild and you never quite know how that's going to turn out.

My only criticism is, I wish Howie would focus that approach more on younger players and try to avoid those getting long in the tooth since the latter are more likely to start dealing with injuries as we have seen with Brooks (and to a lesser extent Johnson).  

[Procus]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

My only criticism is, I wish Howie would focus that approach more on younger players and try to avoid those getting long in the tooth since the latter are more likely to start dealing with injuries as we have seen with Brooks (and to a lesser extent Johnson).  

It's a process that takes a couple of years.  I think the team is on it right now.  This draft is critical.

[time2rock]

5 minutes ago, Procus said:

It's a process that takes a couple of years.  I think the team is on it right now.  This draft is critical.

Indeed!  Truer words have never been spoken. 

 

[NOTW]

On 1/22/2022 at 4:30 PM, kiwieagle said:

That draft is great between Goedert and Mailata alone. Then you have Maddox and Sweat both on second contracts and will be starters and/or contributors for a long time. Even Pryor gave us value for a few years, brought a pick back and has taken a step forward this year with Indy. All from only 5 picks

So it's interesting, that draft in 2018 they were coming off the Super Bowl win.  Their focus was to run it back with the same group so perhaps - just guessing here - they weren't feeling desperate in the draft or felt the need to reach or make a splash.  They were on the high of the SB and Howie had just won exec of the year.  They traded out of the 1st feeling they had no real needs, and took a backup TE when they had Ertz, knowing the Goedert could be a starter to replace him.  The rest were developmental picks to groom as solid depth or starters.

I wonder if they had a better draft because they didn't feel the pressure and just stuck to the board and took the BPA.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 hours ago, NOTW said:

I wonder if they had a better draft because they didn't feel the pressure and just stuck to the board and took the BPA.

What's strange to me is that they seem to do a better job with the mid to late round guys. I mean those guys you hope to be depth guys and yet look who they've found. Driscoll, Mailata, Watkins, Maddox, even guys like Stoll who contributed last year. Yet when it comes to the first round they just seem to make these huge huge errors. 

[NOTW]

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

What's strange to me is that they seem to do a better job with the mid to late round guys. I mean those guys you hope to be depth guys and yet look who they've found. Driscoll, Mailata, Watkins, Maddox, even guys like Stoll who contributed last year. Yet when it comes to the first round they just seem to make these huge huge errors. 

They draft a guy for depth, he has to start because the starter gets injured and fans think Howie did a good job because he drafted a starter...but the guy is just ok.

He has to draft star, difference makers. He hasn't ever on defense.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

59 minutes ago, NOTW said:

They draft a guy for depth, he has to start because the starter gets injured and fans think Howie did a good job because he drafted a starter...but the guy is just ok.

He has to draft star, difference makers. He hasn't ever on defense.

I agree with you... But like Quez was a really good pick. Gainwell looks to be a really good pick. Driscoll played well and possibly is the future RG starter. Where he's missing is on those starters in the first round. 

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I agree with you... But like Quez was a really good pick. Gainwell looks to be a really good pick. Driscoll played well and possibly is the future RG starter. Where he's missing is on those starters in the first round. 

Quez is a 3rd or 4th WR being used as a 2nd WR.  He also could be the type of player that everyone forgets about in a year or 2.  Remember Fulgham was going to be "elite" after playing well in a short span.  At one point even Mack Hollins had a decent stretch of games and scored a huge long TD.  Players have to be proven long term. Gainwell was a good pick as well, and featured more in the offense than I expected.  

The one position they draft really well is O line, and I think Stoutland is a big part of that.  

Every team is able to hit on some players sometimes who become starters or at least contribute in rotation.  Sweat, Maddox, Driscoll, Watkins, Sanders, Seumalo...these are guys who can start or are significant depth but not star players that anyone on the other team really fears playing.  Malaita is looking like a beast and what a gem converting a rugby player in the 7th round to the starting LT.  Goedert is the starting TE now but he still isn't standing out in the league.

On defense Howie has not drafted one bona fide star player ever.  His ceiling is a guy who is a decent starter.  The best defensive player he's drafted is Barnett...a penalty liability who might be let go in free agency this year which would mean no players remain from the 2017 draft.  

Too many fans have set the bar so low for Howie:  they celebrate players like Sweat and Maddox who are just ok players, hey at least they're not busts.  What players on defense that Howie has drafted are opposing offenses worried about facing?  

He absolutely must come out of this draft with at least one defensive stud player. 

[QBhunter58]

23 hours ago, Procus said:

It's a process that takes a couple of years.  I think the team is on it right now.  This draft is critical.

even more so this year, completely agree. Lots of capital, need an infusion of youth and talent (+ cheap rookie contracts)

[QBhunter58]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

Quez is a 3rd or 4th WR being used as a 2nd WR.  He also could be the type of player that everyone forgets about in a year or 2.  Remember Fulgham was going to be "elite" after playing well in a short span.  At one point even Mack Hollins had a decent stretch of games and scored a huge long TD.  Players have to be proven long term. Gainwell was a good pick as well, and featured more in the offense than I expected.  

The one position they draft really well is O line, and I think Stoutland is a big part of that.  

Every team is able to hit on some players sometimes who become starters or at least contribute in rotation.  Sweat, Maddox, Driscoll, Watkins, Sanders, Seumalo...these are guys who can start or are significant depth but not star players that anyone on the other team really fears playing.  Malaita is looking like a beast and what a gem converting a rugby player in the 7th round to the starting LT.  Goedert is the starting TE now but he still isn't standing out in the league.

On defense Howie has not drafted one bona fide star player ever.  His ceiling is a guy who is a decent starter.  The best defensive player he's drafted is Barnett...a penalty liability who might be let go in free agency this year which would mean no players remain from the 2017 draft.  

Too many fans have set the bar so low for Howie:  they celebrate players like Sweat and Maddox who are just ok players, hey at least they're not busts.  What players on defense that Howie has drafted are opposing offenses worried about facing?  

He absolutely must come out of this draft with at least one defensive stud player. 

Howie is GARGABE at drafting defensive talent. I like willams last year, he seems to hit on one late round guy who is a quality every year or two, but he has not landed real talent.

Also, I disagree (slightly) about quez. I liked what I saw on his college film, but he was a little 2 dimensional as a player. He worked his ass off in the offseason and showed up as a much better player last year. I see Quez as a quality 3rd or 4th receiver like you, but I dont see him fizzling out. He has that craftsman mentality to his game, I think he will be around here for a while. Love seeing him come in off the bench

[matchew88]

With the Brooks re-structure, whats the cap look like?

[matchew88]

1 minute ago, QBhunter58 said:

Howie is GARGABE at drafting defensive talent. I like willams last year, he seems to hit on one late round guy who is a quality every year or two, but he has not landed real talent.

Also, I disagree (slightly) about quez. I liked what I saw on his college film, but he was a little 2 dimensional as a player. He worked his ass off in the offseason and showed up as a much better player last year. I see Quez as a quality 3rd or 4th receiver like you, but I dont see him fizzling out. He has that craftsman mentality to his game, I think he will be around here for a while. Love seeing him come in off the bench

Watkins film against the Bucs was bittersweet. Literally open for TD after TD, but showing just how futile it will be with Hurts.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, QBhunter58 said:

Howie is GARGABE at drafting defensive talent. I like willams last year, he seems to hit on one late round guy who is a quality every year or two, but he has not landed real talent.

Also, I disagree (slightly) about quez. I liked what I saw on his college film, but he was a little 2 dimensional as a player. He worked his ass off in the offseason and showed up as a much better player last year. I see Quez as a quality 3rd or 4th receiver like you, but I dont see him fizzling out. He has that craftsman mentality to his game, I think he will be around here for a while. Love seeing him come in off the bench

I like Quez as well, just saying we have to see long-term.  I said he "could" be the type of player that might not be around long-term but he could continue to improve.  Siri called him the #2 WR and Reagor the #3 in his end of year PC.  

Williams was a good depth pick. They've done ok drafting backup defensive lineman. Sweat became a starter due to injury.  Building the lines is something that Howie got from Reid that has stuck.  If you look at the starters on the D line it's 2 Reid picks (Cox, Graham), a free agent in Hargrave and Barnett who Howie picked but might let him walk in FA because he's a walking penalty and Sweat who starts due to injury to BG and is ok but needs a better talent opposite.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

Quez is a 3rd or 4th WR being used as a 2nd WR.  He also could be the type of player that everyone forgets about in a year or 2.  Remember Fulgham was going to be "elite" after playing well in a short span. 

I think Quez has done it for a little longer period. I mean not a lot longer but I think he's flashed for long enough to be more than a Fulgham flash in the pan. 

[Bwestbrook36]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

At one point even Mack Hollins had a decent stretch of games and scored a huge long TD

5  catches for 132 yards and 1 touchdown in 3 games is a decent stretch now? What a sad state of affairs the WR position is in.