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2023: Continued dead cap hell (Currently $54 Million)

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Just now, MillerTime said:

2022 was the start? I thought 2019 was, then 2020 was, then 2021 was? It’s the same argument every year yet we roll over more money than 90% of teams each year.

2022 was the first year where a bunch of contracts with void years triggered and rolled up.

 

I think its becoming very clear that you haven't looked at the numbers.  At all

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3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  This is unsustainable.   Pushing some money to the future is SOP.  Pushing the huge amounts they have over the past 4 years is just not a sustainable piece.  But, they could get away with it because they've had cheap QBs (exception being the 2021 season, which had a cap hit value for the QB position more in line with the rest of the league, due to the cap hit for trading Wentz).

As the team gets younger, I'd expect that the bubble would start to come down.  Kelce, Cox, Hargrave, Slay... these cap hits will come off in 2024, and they can't afford to replace those hits with more hits of the same size.  At some point, they have to 'take their medicine' for Howie's screw ups.

Agreed.  In moderation, its an effective way to manage your cap.  Think the window is open?  Great, borrow a bit from the future.

 

Problem is we are now in a place where we HAVE to borrow from the future.  I personally don't believe that is a healthy way to manage your cap.

3 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

His cap his is $5,680,984 this year and $8,318,894 next year.

Williams cap hit is $4,028,000 this year and $7,803,000 next year.

We could have signed him if we wanted to go over our limit for him.

Great.  But why bring up his $100 million extension?

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9 minutes ago, paco said:

2022 was the first year where a bunch of contracts with void years triggered and rolled up.

 

I think its becoming very clear that you haven't looked at the numbers.  At all

Joe Flacco $1,940,000
Steven Nelson $1,508,000
Eric Wilson $1,372,000
Ryan Kerrigan $1,140,000

Sorry I’m not worried about this.

And wont be in future years.

I’ll be worried when we are in a Cowboys situation and have to trade someone that’s 27 like Cooper for a 6th round pick because of cap.

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4 minutes ago, paco said:

Agreed.  In moderation, its an effective way to manage your cap.  Think the window is open?  Great, borrow a bit from the future.

 

Problem is we are now in a place where we HAVE to borrow from the future.  I personally don't believe that is a healthy way to manage your cap.

Great.  But why bring up his $100 million extension?

Because it was said we couldnt afford to sign a safety. We could have and drafted a WR instead of trading for Brown. They chose not to.

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2 minutes ago, MillerTime said:
Joe Flacco $1,940,000
Steven Nelson $1,508,000
Eric Wilson $1,372,000
Ryan Kerrigan $1,140,000

Sorry I’m not worried about this.

And wont be in future years.

Very curious you only chose those 4 players and not included all of the players who's voided years rolled up

 

1 minute ago, MillerTime said:

Because it was said we couldnt afford to sign a safety. We could have and drafted a WR instead of trading for Brown. They chose not to.

It's becoming obvious you are either being overly emotional about the subject or trolling, but f it, I'll repeat this one more time:  The extension has nothing to do with the 2022 cap.

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11 minutes ago, paco said:

Very curious you only chose those 4 players and not included all of the players who's voided years rolled up

 

It's becoming obvious you are either being overly emotional about the subject or trolling, but f it, I'll repeat this one more time:  The extension has nothing to do with the 2022 cap.

We had to take on his cap hit in 2022 didn’t we? Which is more then Williams cap hit. We also were able to extend him with a 100 million dollar contract the next 4 years. Isn’t the future what you’re worried about? We could have afforded Williams. You’re just deflecting what I’m saying.

I chose those 4 players because the other players are still on the team. Except Ertz, Jackson, and Jeffery. All of which we got cap space back from to help replace them in Goedert, Hargrave, and Brown.

Rodney McLeod $2,140,000

I did forget to copy in Mcleod. He was here for multiple years and a good part of our defense.

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5 minutes ago, MillerTime said:

We had to take on his cap hit in 2022 didn’t we? Which is more then Williams cap hit. We also were able to extend him with a 100 million dollar contract the next 4 years. Isn’t the future what you’re worried about? We could have afforded Williams. You’re just deflecting what I’m saying.

I chose those 4 players because the other players are still on the team. Except Ertz, Jackson, and Jeffery. All of which we got cap space back from to help replace them in Goedert, Hargrave, and Brown.

:facepalm:   dear god :facepalm: 

 

Yup, I'm out

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Yaw still trying to play the cap game? lol. Howie still schooling yaw. Just stop with the bad maths. Howie got it.

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9 minutes ago, paco said:

:facepalm:   dear god :facepalm: 

 

Yup, I'm out

They Eagles saved 12M after what was cleared in 2021 and dead cap for 2022 in cutting Jackson and Jeffery. We rolled all but 900k of that over. Eliminating most of their dead cap. Ertz saved the Eagles 5.5M which rolled over basically eliminating his dead cap. 

The other 4 players are on the team and can contribute. They are all on very low deals for their positions. Their dead cap is irrelevant unless they get cut. Take Lovato. His dead cap is 375,000. His cap hit is $1,085,000. He is getting paid $1,460,000 to be on the team this year.

 

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There is no cap hell in Philly.  There are just people who don't understand the cap as well so Howie does. So they have a perception of cap hell.

It's not a real thing. 

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If this is cap hell, then call me the cap demon because I could do with more offseasons like this 

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The salary cap is fake news.

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4 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

The salary cap is fake news.

Only for us.. other teams seem to struggle more.

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33 minutes ago, Infam said:

Only for us.. other teams seem to struggle more.

Do they though? Sure occasionally a team may get in a hole but I don't think other teams struggle that much. Every team gets under the cap every year. The better teams in the league are the ones able to restock their roster and they do that partly by managing the cap. 

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So I was thinking last night about this comment that I was purposely ignoring in an attempt to try to keep the conversation focused

The Eagles rolled over $16,481,493 into 2022.

This was brought up as a way to say how it eliminates a portion of the 2022 dead cap so the number isn't that big.  Something wasn't sitting right with me about it and then after my 2nd Florida Man IPA it hit me:  Much of that came from the Feltcher Cox restructure in 2021.  This wasn't organic cap savings because Howie didn't spend all of the new 2021 cap... this was cap that was manipulated (and then accelerated with the 2022 cut).  

So lets revisit the 2022 dead cap for a second.  The number that keeps getting thrown around is $36,454,161 plus Brandon Brooks' June 1st hit which will be $7,059,235 for a total of $43,513,396.  However what has been missing is Cox's hit from the cut and its not posted everywhere.  I can't find his original contract on the sites BUT it IS in an OTC video (posted below).  That video gave us this table:

8hLhfBa.jpg

Now in the article I posted yesterday, they quoted the number for 2023 as a result of the cut as $15,359,292.  So at this point I'm going to have to ASSUME the 2022 dead cap hit is going to be $9,641,409.  This may be way off so if this assumption proves to be incorrect, lets not use this as  a week "gotcha" moment, I'm recognizing this is an assumption and if its wrong will undercut the following point:

So IF the $9.6 million hit is accurate, then that takes the actual dead cap number to $53,154,805.

 

I wanted to bring this up not so much for the increased dead cap hit #, rather, what this means about that roll over.  Since the eagles rolled over $16,481,493, how much was "organic" and how much was created by the restructure?  Well, going back in time, it looks like $11.14 million, meaning only $5,341,493 was "organically" rolled over (I forget what other restructures were made) outside of Cox's restructure

 

 

Where am I going with this?  Well, for the folks that want to minimize the dead cap hit with the roll over stat, lets make this simple.  Remove Cox from the equation and bring the dead cap hit back down to $43,513,396.  That means only $5,341,493 of it was really covered by the roll over, leaving $38,171,903 in dead cap that could have been used elsewhere.

 

The point here is that the roll over had a far lesser impact than what some may have been thinking.

 

 

 

@downundermike re Cox:

I found this video about his 2021 restructure.  I haven't watched the whole thing, but given the complexity of his contract I found it very informative.

 

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1 hour ago, paco said:

So I was thinking last night about this comment that I was purposely ignoring in an attempt to try to keep the conversation focused

The Eagles rolled over $16,481,493 into 2022.

This was brought up as a way to say how it eliminates a portion of the 2022 dead cap so the number isn't that big.  Something wasn't sitting right with me about it and then after my 2nd Florida Man IPA it hit me:  Much of that came from the Feltcher Cox restructure in 2021.  This wasn't organic cap savings because Howie didn't spend all of the new 2021 cap... this was cap that was manipulated (and then accelerated with the 2022 cut).  

So lets revisit the 2022 dead cap for a second.  The number that keeps getting thrown around is $36,454,161 plus Brandon Brooks' June 1st hit which will be $7,059,235 for a total of $43,513,396.  However what has been missing is Cox's hit from the cut and its not posted everywhere.  I can't find his original contract on the sites BUT it IS in an OTC video (posted below).  That video gave us this table:

8hLhfBa.jpg

Now in the article I posted yesterday, they quoted the number for 2023 as a result of the cut as $15,359,292.  So at this point I'm going to have to ASSUME the 2022 dead cap hit is going to be $9,641,409.  This may be way off so if this assumption proves to be incorrect, lets not use this as  a week "gotcha" moment, I'm recognizing this is an assumption and if its wrong will undercut the following point:

So IF the $9.6 million hit is accurate, then that takes the actual dead cap number to $53,154,805.

 

I wanted to bring this up not so much for the increased dead cap hit #, rather, what this means about that roll over.  Since the eagles rolled over $16,481,493, how much was "organic" and how much was created by the restructure?  Well, going back in time, it looks like $11.14 million, meaning only $5,341,493 was "organically" rolled over (I forget what other restructures were made) outside of Cox's restructure

 

 

Where am I going with this?  Well, for the folks that want to minimize the dead cap hit with the roll over stat, lets make this simple.  Remove Cox from the equation and bring the dead cap hit back down to $43,513,396.  That means only $5,341,493 of it was really covered by the roll over, leaving $38,171,903 in dead cap that could have been used elsewhere.

 

The point here is that the roll over had a far lesser impact than what some may have been thinking.

 

 

 

@downundermike re Cox:

I found this video about his 2021 restructure.  I haven't watched the whole thing, but given the complexity of his contract I found it very informative.

 

I am a little confused on the purpose of continuing this thread. We are creating contracts now that ultimately eat cap space later; effectively trading limited cap space for when we expect it to balloon. Like a credit card with no interest rate.

Are you trying to imply this is a bad strategy?

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9 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I am a little confused on the purpose of continuing this thread. We are creating contracts now that ultimately eat cap space later; effectively trading limited cap space for when we expect it to balloon. Like a credit card with no interest rate.

Are you trying to imply this is a bad strategy?

Additionally, considering the cap increases, Howie has explained that the dollar as a percentage of the salary cap will continue to decrease. A dollar today borrowed from next years cap is like 80 cents. And a dollar today borrowed from the cap 2 years from now is more like 60 cents. 

Anyone using just this years cap space is limiting themselves. Whereas if Howie has like 20 million available, he is able to use it as if its like 30 million. 

Of course none of those are exact calculations, and may not even be close. Its just using simple numbers as an example of the strategy he is using. 

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51 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Additionally, considering the cap increases, Howie has explained that the dollar as a percentage of the salary cap will continue to decrease. A dollar today borrowed from next years cap is like 80 cents. And a dollar today borrowed from the cap 2 years from now is more like 60 cents. 

Anyone using just this years cap space is limiting themselves. Whereas if Howie has like 20 million available, he is able to use it as if its like 30 million. 

Of course none of those are exact calculations, and may not even be close. Its just using simple numbers as an example of the strategy he is using. 

You would think once the next big TV contract kicks in that the cap ceiling is gong to jump significantly.

 

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On 5/27/2022 at 10:11 AM, Iggles_Phan said:

By kicking it on to the future... again.   $54M dead for 2023... 

Dude that's how the game is played.  The Eagles - and pretty much every other team - will kick THAT money down the road as well.  And the year after that, and the year after that and so on.

That's how the cap is designed. 

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This seems so pointless. They'll be evaluating Hurts this year but if he's good, they'll be stuck with cap limits in 2023. Like I said in another thread, I wonder how old some of these new players will be when the Eagles are done rebuilding. Like some other teams, we'll be stuck in rebuilding purgatory for the next 20 years. Buffalo Bills 2.0

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3 minutes ago, ThinkGreen said:

This seems so pointless. They'll be evaluating Hurts this year but if he's good, they'll be stuck with cap limits in 2023. Like I said in another thread, I wonder how old some of these new players will be when the Eagles are done rebuilding. Like some other teams, we'll be stuck in rebuilding purgatory for the next 20 years. Buffalo Bills 2.0

Take a valium.  It's not that bad.

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye said:

Dude that's how the game is played.  The Eagles - and pretty much every other team - will kick THAT money down the road as well.  And the year after that, and the year after that and so on.

That's how the cap is designed. 

Sure is.  And the Eagles are leading the charge in having more dead money than anyone else.

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On 5/27/2022 at 4:42 AM, Iggles_Phan said:

The Cox situation was almost a refusal to restructure.  They had to cut him (post-June 1) to get out of a roster bonus... and then resigned him to a ridiculously high base salary for this year.  He didn't exactly do the team any favors.  He still costs a ton on the cap for this year... and now has extra on the cap for next year when he's not under contract. 

Nah.  As I explained in a post or two soon after Cox was resigned, properly understood, that whole cut and resign was simply a complex and innovative contract restructure.  By agreeing to do that, he absolutely did the team a favor.  From his perspective though, it had little effect on his compensation.

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1 hour ago, ThinkGreen said:

This seems so pointless. They'll be evaluating Hurts this year but if he's good, they'll be stuck with cap limits in 2023. Like I said in another thread, I wonder how old some of these new players will be when the Eagles are done rebuilding. Like some other teams, we'll be stuck in rebuilding purgatory for the next 20 years. Buffalo Bills 2.0

To me, it seems like the team is borrowing today's dollars against cap number that projects to increase when new TV contracts kick in.  The risk is if we face a 2020 situation when the cap decreased due to unforeseen circumstances.

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47 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

Nah.  As I explained in a post or two soon after Cox was resigned, properly understood, that whole cut and resign was simply a complex and innovative contract restructure.  By agreeing to do that, he absolutely did the team a favor.  From his perspective though, it had little effect on his compensation.

Yeah yeah.  No need to bring Cox back at $14M this year.  Less need after drafting Davis.  Could have just moved on.  But, Howie doesn't like to do that.

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