Patrick Surtain II (Alabama CB) -- DRAFTED BY DENVER #9

[brkmsn]

8 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Not saying that is the right strategy but that is exactly what I’ve been stating in other threads ... Chase with 6 and then one of the 2nd tier CBs with 37.  I don’t think there is that much separation between the top CBs (Surtain, Farley) and next tier (Samuel Jr, Horn, Campbe, etc).  

I prefer Surtain over Farley because of his experience. Farley has less CB experience and Opted out in 2020. So I think you're more right about him than Surtain. I see Surtain as a starter from day 1 that you can count on to be solid. 

I really wanted CB above all else with our first pick until hearing Lurie's "vision." Now, I don't know if it matters all that much, TBH. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

I prefer Surtain over Farley because of his experience. Farley has less CB experience and Opted out in 2020. So I think you're more right about him than Surtain. I see Surtain as a starter from day 1 that you can count on to be solid. 

I think it's probably fair to say... Surtain has the higher floor but Farley has the higher ceiling.

[EagleVA]

On 1/13/2021 at 8:42 AM, time2rock said:

I don’t think there is that much separation between the top CBs (Surtain, Farley) and next tier (Samuel Jr, Horn, Campbe, etc).  

What's going to happen is Surtain is going to run in the high 4.4s  mid 4.5s and Farley is going to run a 4.3 something and the Eagles will select Surtain, we'll then forever be pointing out how dumb it was to select Surtain over Farley.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

31 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

What's going to happen is Surtain is going to run in the high 4.4s  mid 4.5s and Farley is going to run a 4.3 something and the Eagles will select Surtain, we'll then forever be pointing out how dumb it was to select Surtain over Farley.

At this point... Whoever they select (apart from OL) I'll think is the wrong choice until proven otherwise. That's where I'm at with this team, this GM. If they pick Surtain they should have picked Farley. If they pick Farley they should have picked Surtain. If they pick Chase or Smith they should have picked the other guy.

[EagleVA]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

At this point... Whoever they select (apart from OL) I'll think is the wrong choice until proven otherwise. That's where I'm at with this team, this GM. If they pick Surtain they should have picked Farley. If they pick Farley they should have picked Surtain. If they pick Chase or Smith they should have picked the other guy.

I don't think you can go wrong with Farley but I do think you can with Surtain because some are reporting that he doesn't have deep speed, not what you want from pick #6.  

Also, in looking at his highlights, I saw a lot of flags that would have been thrown in the NFL, he's a grabby corner, the refs enjoy picking on those types.

As far as WR goes, this seems to be a strong class so I'd wait until round #2 for that selection.

[time2rock]

14 hours ago, EagleVA said:

I don't think you can go wrong with Farley but I do think you can with Surtain because some are reporting that he doesn't have deep speed, not what you want from pick #6.  

Also, in looking at his highlights, I saw a lot of flags that would have been thrown in the NFL, he's a grabby corner, the refs enjoy picking on those types.

As far as WR goes, this seems to be a strong class so I'd wait until round #2 for that selection.

If they go a position other than WR early I'd hope Bateman drops to 38 and we grab him there.  

[EagleVA]

12 minutes ago, time2rock said:

If they go a position other than WR early I'd hope Bateman drops to 38 and we grab him there.  

That's what I'm talking about, there will be more quality WRs than CBs in the second round, I would take Tamorrian Terry in the 2nd if he's available.

[time2rock]

16 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

That's what I'm talking about, there will be more quality WRs than CBs in the second round, I would take Tamorrian Terry in the 2nd if he's available.

I don't know, I think Samuel Jr, Campbell, Horn would all be good picks in the 2nd should any of them be available then if we don't go CB earlier.  

[EagleVA]

7 hours ago, time2rock said:

I don't know, I think Samuel Jr, Campbell, Horn would all be good picks in the 2nd should any of them be available then if we don't go CB earlier.  

The combine and film study will reveal what your Lou Holtz quote spoke of, so basically I'm waiting on the combine for my final analysis.

I know a lot of folks think the combine is bs but it's not.   

[Wentz_Era]

On 1/9/2021 at 12:37 PM, ManchesterEagle said:

Nope - Darby was really good in 2017, he just got hurt after that. Douglas was a better scheme fit elsewhere. He was pretty below average even then. 

Having said that, they shouldn't have got rid of him and Jones, they were better than our other options.

What are you talking about?  Darby played a qtr and some change and dislocated his ankle.  When he came back he couldn't even beat out Mills for his spot back.  If you want to say he was good for that qtr because he had a pick, then sure swing for the fences haha.  He was at best average (and that's being kind) when he was on the field in '17.

[Waiting4Someday]

On 1/15/2021 at 4:04 PM, EagleVA said:

What's going to happen is Surtain is going to run in the high 4.4s  mid 4.5s and Farley is going to run a 4.3 something and the Eagles will select Surtain, we'll then forever be pointing out how dumb it was to select Surtain over Farley.

If we draft Farley, he’ll predictably become an injury magnet. Surtain will likely be mediocre and forgotten. I’ll complain that we passed on a pro-bowl LB, even though I know that it was never a possibility and discounted it at the time.

[kiwieagle]

I love Surtain as a prospect. He’d be my pick if we had beaten Redskins and were drafting #9. At #6, give me Chase (ideally) or Smith.

Alternatively if they love a QB (Wilson / Lance), I’m ok with that. Not sold on either Wentz turning it around or Hurts developing so if the new coach decides he doesn’t want either, that’s what they got to do. 

[Ray75]

On 1/18/2021 at 12:21 PM, kiwieagle said:

I love Surtain as a prospect. He’d be my pick if we had beaten Redskins and were drafting #9. At #6, give me Chase (ideally) or Smith.

Alternatively if they love a QB (Wilson / Lance), I’m ok with that. Not sold on either Wentz turning it around or Hurts developing so if the new coach decides he doesn’t want either, that’s what they got to do. 

100 % agreed!

I compare Surtain to Marlon Humphrey. Solid CB’s you take in that 10-20 range but not at 6th overall.

Let’s face it; the CB class is just okay but doesn’t offer a single elite prospect like Ramsey.

[Wentz_Era]

On 1/22/2021 at 12:56 AM, Ray75 said:

100 % agreed!

I compare Surtain to Marlon Humphrey. Solid CB’s you take in that 10-20 range but not at 6th overall.

Let’s face it; the CB class is just okay but doesn’t offer a single elite prospect like Ramsey.

IDK that I would compare him to Humphrey.  I think he projects best as a Jenkins/Minkah type hybrid.  When you watch him, he doesn't feel WR's well in coverage and plays way too hands on.  In situations contesting, he's stiff (doesn't open or flip well), while he's a good athlete he's too often flat footed which leads to him getting almost no jump when contesting the ball.  Bama does play that weird bail technique though, so with NFL coaching, maybe those flaws could be fixed.

[Ray75]

13 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

IDK that I would compare him to Humphrey.  I think he projects best as a Jenkins/Minkah type hybrid.  When you watch him, he doesn't feel WR's well in coverage and plays way too hands on.  In situations contesting, he's stiff (doesn't open or flip well), while he's a good athlete he's too often flat footed which leads to him getting almost no jump when contesting the ball.  Bama does play that weird bail technique though, so with NFL coaching, maybe those flaws could be fixed.

Agreed. Point is; Surtain as an okay corner but the class in general doesn’t offer top flight DB’s.

At #6 I want an elite talent, hopefully a game changer and Surtain is clearly not that.

[Infam]

2 hours ago, Ray75 said:

Agreed. Point is; Surtain as an okay corner but the class in general doesn’t offer top flight DB’s.

At #6 I want an elite talent, hopefully a game changer and Surtain is clearly not that.

Interesting. I think he might be, but don't feel confident at all judging corners..

[Ray75]

1 minute ago, Infam said:

Interesting. I think he might be, but don't feel confident at all judging corners..

Look...I like Surtain, Farley, Horn, Stokes, Samuel and some other corners in this class but I simply don’t view any of them as top flight prospects. No knock on them but I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking a DB at all in the top 10 this year.

Okudah was a way better corner coming out last year than any of these kids and we haven’t even talked about Ramsey who was taken 5th overall a couple of years ago. None are on that level this year.

Sucks! Basically a bad year to have a top pick. D-line class is poor, DB and LB classes are okay but the meat is in that late first up until mid 3rd round range, OL class is good but the only prospect worthy of a top 10 pick will likely be off the board, QB class is really good but it’s looking like they’ll stick with Wentz, WR and RB classes are awesome.

I know you like Smith and Waddle a lot, I do too, but I don’t view them as elite talents. This draft class only has a few elite prospects IMO and they are (in no particular order); Lawrence, Chase, Parsons, Sewell and Pitts. Those 4 kids are head and shoulders above the rest but that’s my personal opinion.

[Infam]

1 minute ago, Ray75 said:

I know you like Smith and Waddle a lot, I do too, but I don’t view them as elite talents. This draft class only has a few elite prospects IMO and they are (in no particular order); Lawrence, Chase, Parsons, Sewell and Pitts. Those 4 kids are head and shoulders above the rest but that’s my personal opinion.

Never said I'd pick Waddle 6th overall, just that I like him better than Chase... 😁 But I think you might still underestimate Smith! And he sure starts to get some real buzz right now, finally if you ask me..

There is another CB I really like, Israel Mukuamu, that giant corner.. from what I read about the defense our new DC ran, he would fit perfectly. And I was a fan before, too. CBS has him at #136 which seems too low for him. But maybe with our third rounder?

[Ray75]

26 minutes ago, Infam said:

Never said I'd pick Waddle 6th overall, just that I like him better than Chase... 😁 But I think you might still underestimate Smith! And he sure starts to get some real buzz right now, finally if you ask me..

There is another CB I really like, Israel Mukuamu, that giant corner.. from what I read about the defense our new DC ran, he would fit perfectly. And I was a fan before, too. CBS has him at #136 which seems too low for him. But maybe with our third rounder?

For what it’s worth, I was on to Smith last year. I really love the kid! Calm demeanor but puts it all on the field. You won’t hear me complain if the Eagles pick him, even at #6. I just have question marks if his game will translate well to the NFL and if he can do the same things at the next level with that frame of his. That’s it...

I don’t have these doubts with Chase. Simply because he’s sturdier build and plays a more physical brand of football. He’s just more of a dawg IMO.

Two other corners I like in that late 2nd - mid 3rd round range; Rodarius Williams and Greg Newsome II.

[Wentz_Era]

12 hours ago, Ray75 said:

For what it’s worth, I was on to Smith last year. I really love the kid! Calm demeanor but puts it all on the field. You won’t hear me complain if the Eagles pick him, even at #6. I just have question marks if his game will translate well to the NFL and if he can do the same things at the next level with that frame of his. That’s it...

I don’t have these doubts with Chase. Simply because he’s sturdier build and plays a more physical brand of football. He’s just more of a dawg IMO.

Two other corners I like in that late 2nd - mid 3rd round range; Rodarius Williams and Greg Newsome II.

My only issue with Chase is the boom or average thing with him.  Is he the next Hopkins (on paper isn't spectacular but runs great routes with great hands/ball tracking) or does he have a Jason Avant like career (possession zone beater guy with great hands), where he's a niche player due to his limitations athletically.  

[Ray75]

On 1/25/2021 at 3:55 AM, Wentz_Era said:

My only issue with Chase is the boom or average thing with him.  Is he the next Hopkins (on paper isn't spectacular but runs great routes with great hands/ball tracking) or does he have a Jason Avant like career (possession zone beater guy with great hands), where he's a niche player due to his limitations athletically.  

Good points!

Let’s compare the top 3 receivers and the way I see it;

1) Devonta Smith; Floor; Todd Pinkston // ceiling; Marvin Harrison (light)

2) Jaylen Waddle; Floor; Mecole Hardman // ceiling; T.Y. Hilton

3) JaMarr Chase; Floor, JuJu Smith-Schuster/AJ Brown/Deebo Samuel esque // ceiling; Hines Ward-Steve Smith hybride. 

Matter of taste if you ask me! If they all reach their potential, you can’t go wrong with either of them. Question is "what does Sirianni thinks this offense lacks”.

Personally I’d throw Kyle Pitts into the mix too if they cut/trade Ertz. Biggest matchup nightmare in the entire draft. If history is any indication, Sirianni and Steichen will run 12 personal a lot. Pairing Goedert with a monster you can literally line up anywhere like Pitts could really do some damage plus free up your other weapons (one on one matchups or blown coverage) because a nickel, safety or LB can’t cover Pitts on his own. You need at least double coverage to neutralize him.

[JetroLot]

Everyone having the Surtain/Farley discussion might want to start having a Surtain/Farley/Horn discussion. That or I'm nuts. 

I spent 2 hours watching Surtain and Horn in 10 coverages each (yeah, I did a hell of a lot of rewinding) and Surtain is about perfect technically. Horn is not. Now, the thing about that is though, Horn is winning just with his feet a lot and/or recovery. Kid is an athlete. Starting to wonder what the ceiling is on him. This was all inside/press too. I mean, all inside press? That's big boy coverage. Horn is impressive. 

[The Blackfish]

2 hours ago, stinkfist said:

Everyone having the Surtain/Farley discussion might want to start having a Surtain/Farley/Horn discussion. That or I'm nuts. 

I spent 2 hours watching Surtain and Horn in 10 coverages each (yeah, I did a hell of a lot of rewinding) and Surtain is about perfect technically. Horn is not. Now, the thing about that is though, Horn is winning just with his feet a lot and/or recovery. Kid is an athlete. Starting to wonder what the ceiling is on him. This was all inside/press too. I mean, all inside press? That's big boy coverage. Horn is impressive. 

Farley has only played CB for two years, opted out in 2020.  Horn was really good against FL and then he opted out and missed 3-4 games, he’s underrated but I’m not sure he’ll be there for our pick in the 2nd round. Horn is probably more physical than the other two, loves to press but you know the NFL, if you fart near a WR it’s pass interference. 

Surtain did cover Pitts a bunch in their game and Pitts really showed how good he is, dude is not a TE, if he runs 4.5 or under, Pitts is Megatron.  
 

 Surtain though is a football player, his dad has been teaching him corner since he came out of the womb, he was great in HS and in college, at a minimum you have a safety for 10-12 years. 

I’m curious about Asante Samuel jr as well, I wonder if his measurements are gonna end up like Kyle Murray’s, with 37 different heights. With no combine this year, I’m sure as an ex Eagle we could trust his dad to give the Birds his measurements right?   
 

 

[Ray75]

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-1-0

[JetroLot]

10 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

Farley has only played CB for two years, opted out in 2020.  Horn was really good against FL and then he opted out and missed 3-4 games, he’s underrated but I’m not sure he’ll be there for our pick in the 2nd round. Horn is probably more physical than the other two, loves to press but you know the NFL, if you fart near a WR it’s pass interference. 

Surtain did cover Pitts a bunch in their game and Pitts really showed how good he is, dude is not a TE, if he runs 4.5 or under, Pitts is Megatron.  
 

 Surtain though is a football player, his dad has been teaching him corner since he came out of the womb, he was great in HS and in college, at a minimum you have a safety for 10-12 years. 

I’m curious about Asante Samuel jr as well, I wonder if his measurements are gonna end up like Kyle Murray’s, with 37 different heights. With no combine this year, I’m sure as an ex Eagle we could trust his dad to give the Birds his measurements right?   
 

 

Horn will not be there for our 2nd round pick. I'm' talking about Horn projecting every bit as well as Surtain and Farley. All three of them play press. I'm not sure what you're talking about on that. Horn actually fails to use his hands in press. Surtain is handsy. False hands and then location hand on routes. I'm not sure what "loves to press" means. Press is a coverage, not an option.