Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I'm not wrong.

 

Yeah, you are, you said the following

 

13 minutes ago, MF POON said:

He also had bad stats the one year he won in Indy, look it up.

 

Here are the stats

 

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Dude

He led the league in TD passes, QB rating and QBR the year the Colts won the Super Bowl.  

He was 3rd in completion percentage, 2nd in passing yards, 4th in yards per attempt.

You are so wrong it is laughable.

 

[Iggles_Phan]

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, you are, you said the following

Here are the stats

Even his playoff stats that year weren't bad.  He had a rough game against Baltimore... but bounced back with nearly 350 yards in the AFC CG.  Averaged over 16 games, his playoff passing numbers extrapolate to over 4k yards.   So... I'm not sure what point is to be made here at all.  First ballot HoF QB...  all time passing yards and TDs leader upon his retirement.  

[MF POON]

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I haven't disregarded everything the QB does in the regular season.  That was the whole point.  🤦‍♂️. Hurts wasn't good enough in the regular season this past year.  They got in to the playoffs because the NFL expanded the tournament to make more money and they proved that they didn't belong, in large degree because the QB was out of his depth.  

If Hurts puts up really good numbers this year... and has a deep playoffs run, then he wouldn't qualify as one of the players I referred to.  I specifically mentioned Trent Dilfer, who was god-awful that year with the Ravens.  They set an NFL record for most consecutive game without an offensive TD being scored, and despite that, still won the Super Bowl.  And he was dismissed. 

You are misreading what was said.  

No I'm not. Shalodeep mentioned Hurts could go like 22/10, 3500 yds, 62% comp.  If Hurts had those numbers, plus ran for let's say 6 TDs, and the team goes 12-5 with a deep playoff run? I'd say he sticks around.  

I think we're on the same page so I'm willing to drop the argument.  I agree he wasn't good enough last season, and we really didn't deserve to be in the postseason.  It was a good experience for the team either way.

[Iggles_Phan]

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

No I'm not. Shalodeep mentioned Hurts could go like 22/10, 3500 yds, 62% comp.  If Hurts had those numbers, plus ran for let's say 6 TDs, and the team goes 12-5 with a deep playoff run? I'd say he sticks around.  

I think we're on the same page so I'm willing to drop the argument.  I agree he wasn't good enough last season, and we really didn't deserve to be in the postseason.  It was a good experience for the team either way.

You quoted me repeatedly, and not Shalodeep once.  So, you'll have to forgive me for assuming you were basing your argument based on my statement.  

But if those are the numbers, that's not really good enough in today's NFL.  3500 yards passing is still not the level you want from your QB in a passing league.  That's the level of the journeyman QB in the NFL... not the 'franchise' guy.   12-5 and a deep playoff run would still be happening as much in spite of Hurts, as because of him.  So, he might get one more year to prove that he could get even better... but he definitely shouldn't be getting a long term commitment for big money like what we saw with Kyler Murray (which was an insane contract for his level of play as well).  

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Hurts could go like 22/10, 3500 yds, 62% comp.

That does not justify the investment we made at WR, does it ??

What do you expect AJ Brown's season to look like based on these numbers ??

[MF POON]

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You quoted me repeatedly, and not Shalodeep once.  So, you'll have to forgive me for assuming you were basing your argument based on my statement.  

But if those are the numbers, that's not really good enough in today's NFL.  3500 yards passing is still not the level you want from your QB in a passing league.  That's the level of the journeyman QB in the NFL... not the 'franchise' guy.   12-5 and a deep playoff run would still be happening as much in spite of Hurts, as because of him.  So, he might get one more year to prove that he could get even better... but he definitely shouldn't be getting a long term commitment for big money like what we saw with Kyler Murray (which was an insane contract for his level of play as well).  

Wilson threw for 3110 yds last year (less than what Hurts threw for) and is looking to get paid in Denver. Wentz - 3563. Mac Jones - 3801. Kyler Murray - 3787 and look at his deal. Like I said, if you throw in the rushing yards/rush TDs, it'll def be impressive.  I don't really care if he's not throwing for 4,000+ yards if the team isn't winning (Kirk Cousins).

[MF POON]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

That does not justify the investment we made at WR, does it ??

What do you expect AJ Brown's season to look like based on these numbers ??

It does if AJ accounts for half of those TDs. I don't see Goedert catching many. I realistically see Hurts going for 25 or so throwing TDs which is a nice improvement over 16 from last year.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, MF POON said:

It does if AJ accounts for half of those TDs. I don't see Goedert catching many. I realistically see Hurts going for 25 or so throwing TDs which is a nice improvement over 16 from last year.

Give me an acceptable AJ Brown stat line this year, seeing as we invested a 1st plus and 100 million in him.

[MF POON]

Just now, downundermike said:

Give me an acceptable AJ Brown stat line this year, seeing as we invested a 1st plus and 100 million in him.

his 2020 stats, which is essentially what I said in terms of TD production 

[Iggles_Phan]

5 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Wilson threw for 3110 yds last year (less than what Hurts threw for) and is looking to get paid in Denver. Wentz - 3563. Mac Jones - 3801. Kyler Murray - 3787 and look at his deal. Like I said, if you throw in the rushing yards/rush TDs, it'll def be impressive.  I don't really care if he's not throwing for 4,000+ yards if the team isn't winning (Kirk Cousins).

Wilson had a bad year, no doubt but still has more arm talent than Hurts could dream of.

Wentz is on his third team in 3 years... journeyman at this point.

Jones was a rookie and blew away Hurts' numbers.  He'll put up better numbers this year AND 3800 yards is a lot more than the 3500 you projected for Hurts.

And Murray's deal is ridiculous...  but its the Cardinals.  They do dumb things all the time.

 

I discount the rushing yards because that should not be a part of the design of an NFL offense.  4000 yards while losing isnt good enough either.  Incidentally the 3500 yards itself isnt the issue, but it is how those yards are accumulated abd against whom.  Last year's 3200 yards wasn't impressive at all.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

his 2020 stats, which is essentially what I said in terms of TD production 

So, for AJ Brown to get those stats, Tannehill threw for 3800 yards and 33 TD's.

So how is AJ going to get those numbers when the QB is throwing for 300 less yards and 11 less TD's ??

[Shalodeep]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Wilson threw for 3110 yds last year (less than what Hurts threw for) and is looking to get paid in Denver. Wentz - 3563. Mac Jones - 3801. Kyler Murray - 3787 and look at his deal. Like I said, if you throw in the rushing yards/rush TDs, it'll def be impressive.  I don't really care if he's not throwing for 4,000+ yards if the team isn't winning (Kirk Cousins).

Wilson played one less game as well. 

[MF POON]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

So, for AJ Brown to get those stats, Tannehill threw for 3800 yards and 33 TD's.

So how is AJ going to get those numbers when the QB is throwing for 300 less yards and 11 less TD's ??

math isn't your specialty huh? lol

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, MF POON said:

math isn't your specialty huh? lol

So you have no answer to my question, but I will ask it again.

How is AJ Brown going to duplicate his 2020 production, when the QB is throwing for 300 less yards and 11 less TD's ??

[MF POON]

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

So you have no answer to my question, but I will ask it again.

How is AJ Brown going to duplicate his 2020 production, when the QB is throwing for 300 less yards and 11 less TD's ??

Hurts doesn't have to equal the output Tannehill had in order for AJ to hit those numbers. think of it like a pie and who's getting more of the slices kind of thing, lol.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MF POON said:

Hurts doesn't have to equal the output Tannehill had in order for AJ to hit those numbers. think of it like a pie and who's getting more of the slices kind of thing, lol.

That is what I was looking for.

So, that same season, here are the rest of the Titans receiving stats.

So Devonta would be Corey Davis in this scenario, we gonna take the 300 yards away from him ??

Goedert would be Jonnu Smith and Firsker combined, we gonna take away the 11 TD's from him and Smith.

Now do you see the problem.  Hurts 3500 yards and 22 TD's will not support the above numbers, so DeVonta and Goedert are not going to be happy.

[brkmsn]

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

So you have no answer to my question, but I will ask it again.

How is AJ Brown going to duplicate his 2020 production, when the QB is throwing for 300 less yards and 11 less TD's ??

I think people's projections are skewed based on last season. If our defense shows any improvement whatsoever, our offense will have more opportunities, more plays. If Hurts makes any improvement in his game (as a passer) over last season, our (passing) offense should see an increase in production. Likewise, if our WRs as a group show any improvement over last season, we should be more productive passing the ball. Finally, if our special teams show any improvement in coverage and on returns, we should shift field position, putting us in better situations. 

It will continue to be a team sport as football has always been. So when the whole team plays better, statistical production should increase. Acting as if last season's results are all that's obtainable is extremely short-sighted. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I think people's projections are skewed based on last season. If our defense shows any improvement whatsoever, our offense will have more opportunities, more plays.

Eagles were 16th in plays per game last year at 63.2, tied with the Rams.

The Eagles had more than enough opportunities, they need to make the most of them.

[MF POON]

14 minutes ago, downundermike said:

That is what I was looking for.

So, that same season, here are the rest of the Titans receiving stats.

So Devonta would be Corey Davis in this scenario, we gonna take the 300 yards away from him ??

Goedert would be Jonnu Smith and Firsker combined, we gonna take away the 11 TD's from him and Smith.

Now do you see the problem.  Hurts 3500 yards and 22 TD's will not support the above numbers, so DeVonta and Goedert are not going to be happy.

I don't see Dallas getting 8 TDs, and all of our other WR's besides Smith aren't worth mentioning.  It's realistically possible for it to happen lol.

[eagle45]

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

That does not justify the investment we made at WR, does it ??

What do you expect AJ Brown's season to look like based on these numbers ??

AJ Brown is a very physical WR.  He has never started more than 13 games in a season.  Despite his hype as a bona fide star #1, he has never hit 1,100 yards.  He'll be playing with an inferior passer, albeit one that might target him more heavily.  Pair that with a little more injury luck that will set a career high in games played....less than 1,200 yards, more than 1,050 sounds about right.  I wouldn't expect any eye popping TDs, 5-8.  

The real question will be what numbers the QB/offense can allow for Devonta Smith as the #2 option.  If every yard of production that Brown exceeds 2021 Smith is simply subtracted off Smith's production, then the FO spent a 1st and 100m for nothing.  

[brkmsn]

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

Eagles were 16th in plays per game last year at 63.2, tied with the Rams.

The Eagles had more than enough opportunities, they need to make the most of them.

... and we were tied at 10th in average yards per play (5.7) --- which was just 0.2 yards behind the Rams(3rd tie) who averaged 5.9 yards per play.

Once again, that's my whole point. We only need to see moderate improvement throughout the team to see large statistical improvement. Of course teams should always make the most of their opportunities. The Rams defense created more opportunities for their offense then did the Eagles'.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

The Rams defense created more opportunities for their offense then did the Eagles'.

What ??  We ran the same amount of plays per game as the Rams.  We had the EXACT same amount of opportunities as they did.

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

What ??  We ran the same amount of plays per game as the Rams.  We had the EXACT same amount of opportunities as they did.

Imagine if our defense created 9 more takeaways. We would have had better field position. Drives wouldn't have to be as long and potentially there would be fewer offensive plays required to finish drives. 

I appreciate the point you are trying to make, but stats without context aren't as definitive. 

[eagle45]

4 hours ago, MF POON said:

No I'm not. Shalodeep mentioned Hurts could go like 22/10, 3500 yds, 62% comp.  If Hurts had those numbers, plus ran for let's say 6 TDs, and the team goes 12-5 with a deep playoff run? I'd say he sticks around.  

I think we're on the same page so I'm willing to drop the argument.  I agree he wasn't good enough last season, and we really didn't deserve to be in the postseason.  It was a good experience for the team either way.

3,500 yards with a 62% completion and 22TD in a 17 game season should be incompatible with keeping the starting job.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

3,500 yards with a 62% completion and 22TD in a 17 game season should be incompatible with keeping the starting job.

205 passing yards per game does not do it for you ??  That would have ranked 27th last year.