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Jalen Hurts discussion here

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2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The Eagles don't need an elite QB... they need a competent passer.  They don't have that right now.  Hurts is a one dimensional QB, who when he tries to pass eliminates roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of the field.  The Bucs proved that it was easy to shut him down.  Stack the LOS to contain the running game, and keep him from being able to make easy throws to the flat, and to his right.  The result was an anemic offense for 3 quarters... by which time, the game was over and they were just looking to get it over with and move on to the next round.  This is the same blueprint the Giants used against him in Game 1, and unless he proves that he can do more than he did last year, we'll see more of the same.  The good news is, this schedule might be even weaker than last year's so easy wins will be there for the taking.  The bad news is, this schedule might be even weaker than last year's so easy wins will be there for the taking.

The Eagles could’ve has Aaron Rodgers last year and the results would have been the same. The defense couldn’t get stops, sacks, and were letter average quarterbacks complete 80% of their passes against them. Rodgers won 13 games and had a bye last year and went out in his first game just like Hurts did, but unlike Hurts he was at home. 🤷‍♂️

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41 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

Hurts is an RRR_QB.... RollRightRun™ QB. That better have changed, but he is still doing it- even on 7 on 7's. Football god's help us.

Say it ain't so.......if it's true the Eagles can forget about being a contender because the sheet ain't gonna work.

Dude needs to look always to look to step up in the pocket first when he feels/sees pressure coming unless the pressure is due to Kelce getting trucked.

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How the hell do you get THREE players with concussions, when you don't tackle and have a TON of rubber on your helmets? Boston Scott has one now.
Seriously- how is that even possible. They say SiriSoft™ camps protect the players? No, these guys need to be going FULL SPEED. They are getting hurt
because they aren't training properly.🤣💩

 

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24 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

No you build a football team and improve around what you have. Has the Bengals or Bills won a Super Bowl? Heck the Rams just traded for a guy and won a Super Bowl, and two years earlier they went with Goff who everyone says can’t play. 

And scored 3 points. If the Rams had been able to score 14 points they'd have been Super Bowl champs. Scoring 14 points doesn't seem like a lot to ask of a Quarterback/offense in 2019. Of course there was a team we are all familiar with that scored 0 points thru 3 quarters in a playoff game, albeit not the Super Bowl.

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1 hour ago, Talonblood said:

How the hell do you get THREE players with concussions, when you don't tackle and have a TON of rubber on your helmets? Boston Scott has one now.
Seriously- how is that even possible. They say SiriSoft™ camps protect the players? No, these guys need to be going FULL SPEED. They are getting hurt
because they aren't training properly.

You aren't the only one wondering about the concussions. To quote the immortal Vince Lombardi, What the hell's going on out here?

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2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Do I need to list the people who hate McNabb? Is that more or less relevant than the fact he’s the best quarterback in Eagles history while people are assuming that elite quarterbacks grow on trees? 

I would say that you do, because I would say that the vast majority of fans acknowledge that he's the best QB we've had and like him. Nor does anyone assume elite QBs grow on trees, given how we've been below average in that area for the majority of our time on this planet.

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7 hours ago, Nivraga said:

Last year there was a play (don't remember the specific game) near the goal line where Hurts threw ball out the back of the endzone when he had a receiver wide open on his right. On the play, Hurts dropped back looking left and then straight forward before he unloaded. I can't remember if he was throwing to a receiver in tight coverage or just threw it away but he missed an easy TD if he had just looked to his right. 

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image.thumb.png.d7babb09ff63c55ff95d21576e49ed23.png

 

😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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2 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Eagles could’ve has Aaron Rodgers last year and the results would have been the same. The defense couldn’t get stops, sacks, and were letter average quarterbacks complete 80% of their passes against them. Rodgers won 13 games and had a bye last year and went out in his first game just like Hurts did, but unlike Hurts he was at home. 🤷‍♂️

I'm sure you have a point in there somewhere, I just don't know what it is.  The Eagles weren't a Super Bowl team last year, but they were held back by their QB as well as their defense.  And the QB issue also retards the development of the skill position players around him.  

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4 hours ago, Talonblood said:

How the hell do you get THREE players with concussions, when you don't tackle and have a TON of rubber on your helmets?

 

Turn the thermostat up to 92+ degrees and the excuses not to practice will come.

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5 hours ago, Talonblood said:

How the hell do you get THREE players with concussions, when you don't tackle and have a TON of rubber on your helmets? Boston Scott has one now.
Seriously- how is that even possible. They say SiriSoft™ camps protect the players? No, these guys need to be going FULL SPEED. They are getting hurt
because they aren't training properly.🤣💩

 

 

 

 

Obviously the helmet bs isn't working and might actually be counterproductive. 

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3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

 

Obviously the helmet bs isn't working and might actually be counterproductive. 

It’s The old adage of you can scramble an egg without cracking the shell.  The padding on the outside of the helmet won’t do crap.  There’s a ton of variation in the helmets too which are all approved helmets but I’d be curious to know if the guys getting concussions are all wearing the same helmet style or if they’re different.  I’d also like to see the nfl take steps and start putting in the tech that’s used to test helmets for research and gather that data in the real world.  Most of the helmet testing are done in labs and most of them only need to pass frontal collision testing.  It’s well known that concussion can and do happen from side impact and rotational forces and sometimes not even a direct hit to the head, just a whiplash like effect.  The NHL has actually done a good job of improving the helmets in regards to the side impact and rotational forces.  The nfl could look to that data and the helmet construction and take some of that R&D into their own helmets.  You’d really think by now the nfl with the settlements and all the CTE related deaths would start to put more emphasis on the actual helmet rather than the answer being "just hit less in camp.”  

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36 minutes ago, DBW said:

It’s The old adage of you can scramble an egg without cracking the shell.  The padding on the outside of the helmet won’t do crap.  There’s a ton of variation in the helmets too which are all approved helmets but I’d be curious to know if the guys getting concussions are all wearing the same helmet style or if they’re different.  I’d also like to see the nfl take steps and start putting in the tech that’s used to test helmets for research and gather that data in the real world.  Most of the helmet testing are done in labs and most of them only need to pass frontal collision testing.  It’s well known that concussion can and do happen from side impact and rotational forces and sometimes not even a direct hit to the head, just a whiplash like effect.  The NHL has actually done a good job of improving the helmets in regards to the side impact and rotational forces.  The nfl could look to that data and the helmet construction and take some of that R&D into their own helmets.  You’d really think by now the nfl with the settlements and all the CTE related deaths would start to put more emphasis on the actual helmet rather than the answer being "just hit less in camp.”  

@Bwestbrook36 what’s so confusing and/or sad to you?  

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5 minutes ago, DBW said:

@Bwestbrook36 what’s so confusing and/or sad to you?  

@Bwestbrook36 Now you’re sad? 
 

get your emotions in check and use your words.  😆 

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1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

 

Obviously the helmet bs isn't working and might actually be counterproductive. 

And they aren't at full speed. Half speed gets you hurt. Full speed actually is better. When I was a skinny kid playing organized soccer, I had a head on collision with this big, fat kid, who was running half speed. I was running full speed. Guess who got knocked on their ass and got hurt? Guess who was still standing, unhurt? I'm still amazed at that physics lesson. 

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1 hour ago, DBW said:

It’s The old adage of you can scramble an egg without cracking the shell.  The padding on the outside of the helmet won’t do crap.  There’s a ton of variation in the helmets too which are all approved helmets but I’d be curious to know if the guys getting concussions are all wearing the same helmet style or if they’re different.  I’d also like to see the nfl take steps and start putting in the tech that’s used to test helmets for research and gather that data in the real world.  Most of the helmet testing are done in labs and most of them only need to pass frontal collision testing.  It’s well known that concussion can and do happen from side impact and rotational forces and sometimes not even a direct hit to the head, just a whiplash like effect.  The NHL has actually done a good job of improving the helmets in regards to the side impact and rotational forces.  The nfl could look to that data and the helmet construction and take some of that R&D into their own helmets.  You’d really think by now the nfl with the settlements and all the CTE related deaths would start to put more emphasis on the actual helmet rather than the answer being "just hit less in camp.”  

Actually, have the players who want  to take a risk playing the game to get rich sign a simple waiver. It states they KNOW and OWN the risk of playing. Done.

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5 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

Actually, have the players who want  to take a risk playing the game to get rich sign a simple waiver. It states they KNOW and OWN the risk of playing. Done.

Yeah sure that could potentially free the nfl of any Liability and/or responsibilities related to safety. But I’m saying even from a players perspective, the tech is there not only to study in labs but study in the field and develop better helmets.  The PLAYERS should want this and push for it and the union should fight for them and make the owners take some responsibility.  Owners instead opt for lighter practices, less hitting, etc.  clearly that’s not the answer.  There are more non contact injuries in the nfl today with its soft practices than there were in the 80-200’s before they went soft.  Same with concussions.  

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With the helmets, it's simple acceleration/deceleration.  Just like any car accident or parachute.

If you decelerate more slowly (think going from free-fall to parachute to ground, you will be ok.  If you decelerate from the same free fall to cement, you are toast.  If you decelerate in a car over a 15 foot crumple zone, you'll be fine.  If you do it instantly, you are toast.

Same thing with a helmet...if you have a 3' diameter foam helmet, no one will ever get concussions from impacts.  When you reduce that X over which the deceleration is applied to about 2cm, then you get concussions.  There are millions of dollars of research in refining the angles of the helmet and redistributing the padding, but there is no miraculous fix waiting to be discovered there.

The most cutting edge helmet research actually involves sensors that records chronic sub-concussive impacts over the course of the game...and notifies medical staff when players are reaching dangerous thresholds.  Exactly what these dangerous thresholds may be is still unknown and somewhat arbitrarily defined right now.

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1 hour ago, DBW said:

Yeah sure that could potentially free the nfl of any Liability and/or responsibilities related to safety. But I’m saying even from a players perspective, the tech is there not only to study in labs but study in the field and develop better helmets.  The PLAYERS should want this and push for it and the union should fight for them and make the owners take some responsibility.  Owners instead opt for lighter practices, less hitting, etc.  clearly that’s not the answer.  There are more non contact injuries in the nfl today with its soft practices than there were in the 80-200’s before they went soft.  Same with concussions.  

I'm pretty sure that was something  the NFLPA wanted placed in the CBA, not the owners.

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1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

With the helmets, it's simple acceleration/deceleration.  Just like any car accident or parachute.

If you decelerate more slowly (think going from free-fall to parachute to ground, you will be ok.  If you decelerate from the same free fall to cement, you are toast.  If you decelerate in a car over a 15 foot crumple zone, you'll be fine.  If you do it instantly, you are toast.

Same thing with a helmet...if you have a 3' diameter foam helmet, no one will ever get concussions from impacts.  When you reduce that X over which the deceleration is applied to about 2cm, then you get concussions.  There is millions of dollars of research in refining the angles of the helmet and redistributing the padding, but there is no miraculous fix waiting to be discovered there.

The most cutting edge helmet research actually involves sensors that records chronic sub-concussive impacts over the course of the game...and notifies medical staff when players are reaching dangerous thresholds.  Exactly what these dangerous thresholds may be is still unknown and somewhat arbitrarily defined right now.

Look at you with the physics brain.   I am so proud.  :wub: 

Just to correct this a little... its really about the time, not the delta-x.   It's the impulse-change in momentum relationship - F*delta-t = m*delta-v.  Longer time to change the velocity, the less force involved.  Force and displacement are related to energy, but ultimately, it's not about the energy, it's about momentum.  You are correct though, increasing the delta-x needed to stop the motion also increases the delta-t, which is really the goal.

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1 hour ago, DBW said:

Yeah sure that could potentially free the nfl of any Liability and/or responsibilities related to safety. But I’m saying even from a players perspective, the tech is there not only to study in labs but study in the field and develop better helmets.  The PLAYERS should want this and push for it and the union should fight for them and make the owners take some responsibility.  Owners instead opt for lighter practices, less hitting, etc.  clearly that’s not the answer.  There are more non contact injuries in the nfl today with its soft practices than there were in the 80-200’s before they went soft.  Same with concussions.  

Great post, IMO

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42 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Look at you with the physics brain.   I am so proud.  :wub: 

Just to correct this a little... its really about the time, not the delta-x.   It's the impulse-change in momentum relationship - F*delta-t = m*delta-v.  Longer time to change the velocity, the less force involved.  Force and displacement are related to energy, but ultimately, it's not about the energy, it's about momentum.  You are correct though, increasing the delta-x needed to stop the motion also increases the delta-t, which is really the goal.

Absolutely, mathematically it's time.  Conceptually, I always found it easier to think of the distance over which the acceleration changes...but as you said, it's really time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't X have a place in there too?  X=Vo*t + (1/2)*at^2?     With a much larger X and negative acceleration, the magnitude of acceleration would be much less.   

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39 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'm pretty sure that was something  the NFLPA wanted placed in the CBA, not the owners.

That was a negotiation. Less intense practices and fewer preseason games in exchange for 17-18 games. 

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43 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Look at you with the physics brain.   I am so proud.  :wub: 

Just to correct this a little... its really about the time, not the delta-x.   It's the impulse-change in momentum relationship - F*delta-t = m*delta-v.  Longer time to change the velocity, the less force involved.  Force and displacement are related to energy, but ultimately, it's not about the energy, it's about momentum.  You are correct though, increasing the delta-x needed to stop the motion also increases the delta-t, which is really the goal.

 image.gif.576434a092d450759702c82d5ee8821c.gif

 

I’m not saying this stuff isn’t look at in the league but I think a lot of it isn’t implemented or utilized appropriately.  To over simply though, Siriani explained that they take the 3rd day as a walk through because the league data shows that more soft tissue injuries happen on day 3 of camp than any other day.  That’s great use of the data.  The leagues answer to all of the concussion data is:

image.jpeg.f899a1d87339239e556cb018f50f6bf8.jpeg

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8 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Absolutely, mathematically it's time.  Conceptually, I always found it easier to think of the distance over which the acceleration changes...but as you said, it's really time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't X have a place in there too?  X=Vo*t + (1/2)*at^2?     With a much larger X and negative acceleration, the magnitude of acceleration would be much less.   

It would, but momentum is the driving concept here.  Displacement, velocity and acceleration are all related to each other and to time as you've shown, but ultimately... it is the impulse-momentum relationship that determines the force.  And it is the force that actually matters where concussions are concerned.

The distance increasing is what allows for the time to increase, which in turn allows the force to decrease.

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