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Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs


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It's pretty cut and dry: 

Wilson runs for about 30 yards a game. Hurts runs for roughly 2 times as much. It's pretty obviously different. 

Look at it this way: Wilson has 4,515 rushing yards in his 145 starts. If you take what Hurts has rushed for per game and put it over 145 games, he's knocking on the door of 10,000 rushing yards. As it stands now, Hurts is running almost 20 yards a game more than Vick did in his career as a starter. I feel like people are intentionally not seeing the difference. 

At any rate, if Hurts can prove he can throw the ball effectively (so far so good this season) and run a bit less, I have no problem with him using his legs. He needs to be safe with it and he needs to not be dependent on it.

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9 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

What is being discussed is basically a bias towards a player based on less than factual information while lumping said player into a group of other players that are loosely connected to one another. Meanwhile people are making bold and blanket statements based on fractional information. Professional football has been around since the 1800, and in all that time do you really think every statue style quarterback was good? Should any assessment be based on only the bad statue quarterbacks while removing the winning ones as the base for an argument against them? Meanwhile the athletic style quarterbacks didn’t really show up until the 60, but really didn’t gain any real presence until 90s. So now a style of play that is relatively already has an exact standard? I’ll bet if you combine all of the win/loss record of dual threat quarterbacks they will have a winning record. The anti-dual threat quarterback talk is based in absolutely nothing, but speculations, bias, and fear. 

You're on the right side of the argument here.

However,  your view of NFL history is a little skewed.   the first 20-3- years of the NFL, there really weren't pocket, statue, quarterbacks.   They didn't even have quarterbacks in the NFL in the 30s and early 40s (except the Bears).  Most NFL teams ran some version of the single wing.   And without getting into detail about the single wing,  one of the key aspects of that was -  the "Quarterback" took a shotgun or pistol snap with the "running back" right close to him.   Just like so many teams do today.   Back then the "Quarterback" was called the "Tailback" and the "Running Back" was called the "Fullback".   And each one of those Tailback/QBs  brought some amount of running,  some amount of passing. 

Here's some old NFL - 1939 - with no QB,  clear color footage, and a lot of running.
 

 

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13 minutes ago, Swoop said:

It's pretty cut and dry: 

Wilson runs for about 30 yards a game. Hurts runs for roughly 2 times as much. It's pretty obviously different. 

Look at it this way: Wilson has 4,515 rushing yards in his 145 starts. If you take what Hurts has rushed for per game and put it over 145 games, he's knocking on the door of 10,000 rushing yards. As it stands now, Hurts is running almost 20 yards a game more than Vick did in his career as a starter. I feel like people are intentionally not seeing the difference. 

At any rate, if Hurts can prove he can throw the ball effectively (so far so good this season) and run a bit less, I have no problem with him using his legs. He needs to be safe with it and he needs to not be dependent on it.

Wilson ran for over 800 yards one year.   Lamar set the record,  1200 something.   Wilson wasn't far off the single season record.

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3 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Wilson ran for over 800 yards one year.   Lamar set the record,  1200 something.   Wilson wasn't far off the single season record.

Intentionally not seeing the difference, got it. 

He also ran for fewer yards in an entire season (2016) than Hurts has in his first five starts.

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2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Intentionally not seeing the difference, got it. 

He also ran for fewer yards in an entire season (2016) than Hurts has in his first five starts.

Russell Wilson belongs in the class of running QBs.

You for some reason want to create 2 categories of running QB.   No need.  Running QBs are rare enough.

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6 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Russell Wilson belongs in the class of running QBs.

You for some reason want to create 2 categories of running QB.   No need.  Running QBs are rare enough.

Because there is a difference between a running QB and a QB that can also run. He averages over his career about 2 carries more per game than Rodgers. Is Rodgers a running QB?

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I think listing QBs by attempt over whole career is not slicing the data correctly.

I would look at attempts per game, yards per game.

Brady has 636 attempts over 21 seasons. 30 per season, about 2 per game.

Are these 1 yard QB sneaks? Brady is the GOAT, but not a great runner.

Was Jalen Hurts a running QB last year by design or was he running for his life behind a swiss cheese OLine on a losing franchise.

Stats cant tell you that.

We saw with Carson Wentz how a mobile QB could extend plays. Before he was hurt, Carson was slippery in the pocket, evasive.

Game 1 this year looked more like Jalen was running by design. Make reads. See opportunity. Take it. OLine good. Team wins.

Different than last year.

 

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11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

What is being discussed is basically a bias towards a player based on less than factual information while lumping said player into a group of other players that are loosely connected to one another. Meanwhile people are making bold and blanket statements based on fractional information. Professional football has been around since the 1800, and in all that time do you really think every statue style quarterback was good? Should any assessment be based on only the bad statue quarterbacks while removing the winning ones as the base for an argument against them? Meanwhile the athletic style quarterbacks didn’t really show up until the 60, but really didn’t gain any real presence until 90s. So now a style of play that is relatively already has an exact standard? I’ll bet if you combine all of the win/loss record of dual threat quarterbacks they will have a winning record. The anti-dual threat quarterback talk is based in absolutely nothing, but speculations, bias, and fear. 

I agree with this to an extent, I am like you in the regard that the sport is becoming more and more dynamic, so I believe that QBs are needing the ability to be able to adapt.

Earlier I saw this video with Brian Baldinger giving a short analysis of a more traditional style of play with the 49ers, compared to the newer more dynamic read option with our Eagles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDOF7DtWW-8I (it wouldn't let me embed it).

I felt this highlights the traditional and newer dynamic play that both still exist in the game, and how there is more than one way to skin a cat. So in that sense, I believe it wouldn't be fair to claim someone as being wrong when they prefer more of a statue of a QB, nor do I think it is correct to say running QBs are not viable in the league. Like many discussions and debates, the correct answer is usually found somewhere in the middle, and I believe that is the case with this discussion also.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, mihailo said:

I agree with this to an extent, I am like you in the regard that the sport is becoming more and more dynamic, so I believe that QBs are needing the ability to be able to adapt.

Earlier I saw this video with Brian Baldinger giving a short analysis of a more traditional style of play with the 49ers, compared to the newer more dynamic read option with our Eagles:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDOF7DtWW-8I (it wouldn't let me embed it).

I felt this highlights the traditional and newer dynamic play that both still exist in the game, and how there is more than one way to skin a cat. So in that sense, I believe it wouldn't be fair to claim someone as being wrong when they prefer more of a statue of a QB, nor do I think it is correct to say running QBs are not viable in the league. Like many discussions and debates, the correct answer is usually found somewhere in the middle, and I believe that is the case with this discussion also.

 

 

I don’t believe that Statue Quarterbacks should be phased out of the league. I think there is a world for both dual threat quarterbacks and the traditional. Overall a coach needs to create an offense that leads to the strengths of his team in order to win games. Winning is what matters most.

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2 hours ago, Swoop said:

Because there is a difference between a running QB and a QB that can also run. He averages over his career about 2 carries more per game than Rodgers. Is Rodgers a running QB?

There is no difference. Just ridiculous made up lines that don’t exist. Russell Wilson averages 800 rush yards a season. He’s a dual threat quarterback. They all are. There is not difference, but you all refuse to acknowledge this, because it will crush that stupid ASSumption that these guys don’t win. There isn’t even some standard for this bias you all have. You all just basically throw arbitrary crap at the wall and hope something sticks. 

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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

There is no difference. Just ridiculous made up lines that don’t exist. Russell Wilson averages 800 rush yards a season. He’s a dual threat quarterback. They all are. There is not difference, but you all refuse to acknowledge this, because it will crush that stupid ASSumption that these guys don’t win. 

Not even close, but okay.

Russell Wilson, future HOFer, will be remembered by everyone for being strictly a running QB. Sure.

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1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

There is no difference. Just ridiculous made up lines that don’t exist. Russell Wilson averages 800 rush yards a season.

Why do you straight up lie.  Taking out this year game 1, in 9 seasons, Wilson has 4506 rushing yards.

4506 / 9 = 500.6666

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Just now, Swoop said:

Not even close, but okay.

Russell Wilson, future HOFer, will be remembered by everyone for being strictly a running QB. Sure.

What quarterback strictly runs? Who’s that guy? 

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Just now, EazyEaglez said:

What quarterback strictly runs? Who’s that guy? 

My point is that not a single QB has ever been successful running the amount that Hurts has. He can't continue to rush for 70 yards a game. 

Like I've said a million times, he should use his legs if need be. He should take off a few times a game. He should not be running 8-12 times a game.

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1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Why do you straight up lie.  Taking out this year game 1, in 9 seasons, Wilson has 4506 rushing yards.

4506 / 9 = 500.6666

Oh my bad. It wasn’t a lie rather a mistake. Now how about you tell me who this run only quarterback you all keep talking about is. And 500 rush yards a season pretty much beats that standard one of you pit up also. 

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4 minutes ago, Swoop said:

My point is that not a single QB has ever been successful running the amount that Hurts has. He can't continue to rush for 70 yards a game. 

Like I've said a million times, he should use his legs if need be. He should take off a few times a game. He should not be running 8-12 times a game.

Again a ridiculous argument. Even Russell Wilson has runs less as he got older. So did McNabb and many others. That’s part of development. To say Hurts is what he is at this point is foolishness. Hurts in his 5th game was a better player than he was in his first for as a throwing quarterback and a running one. Let’s be clear though. Wilson still uses his leg as a weapon. He’s not a statue out there and there is no such thing as a quarterback who simply runs all the time. 

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3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Oh my bad. It wasn’t a lie rather a mistake. Now how about you tell me who this run only quarterback you all keep talking about is. And 500 rush yards a season pretty much beats that standard one of you pit up also. 

How do you make that mistake.  Quick look and you see 1 season over 800,  3 just over 500, 1 over 400 and three under 400.  

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1 minute ago, EazyEaglez said:

Again a ridiculous argument. Even Russell Wilson has runs less as he got older. So did McNabb and many others. That’s part of development. To say Hurts is what he is at this point is foolishness. Hurts in his 5th game was a better player than he was in his first for as a throwing quarterback and a running one. Let’s be clear though. Wilson still uses his leg as a weapon. He’s not a statue out there and there is no such thing as a quarterback who simply runs all the time. 

What are you even talking about? I never said Hurts "is what he is". What I said was that he needs to run less. He cannot continue to run at the rate he is.

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3 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Again a ridiculous argument. Even Russell Wilson has runs less as he got older.

False.  Go look at his season rushing totals.  His 4th highest total was last year.  His lowest was right in the middle.

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2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

How do you make that mistake.  Quick look and you see 1 season over 800,  3 just over 500, 1 over 400 and three under 400.  

How do you ignore any questions I ask? Your point is bogus. There’s no such thing as a run only quarterback. Show me the quarterback who has more rush yards that passing yards? 

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5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

False.  Go look at his season rushing totals.  His 4th highest total was last year.  His lowest was right in the middle.

And he did his most running around the time he was making Super Bowl appearances. But thanks for pointing out that Russell Wilson is a quarterback who uses his legs and it helps him win games, and he doesn’t get injured when he uses his legs. I’m glad you see it too. 

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8 minutes ago, Swoop said:

What are you even talking about? I never said Hurts "is what he is". What I said was that he needs to run less. He cannot continue to run at the rate he is.

Jalen’s Ypg and rush attempt averages weren’t that high actually. He only averaged 24 yards rush a game, and 5 carries. This is all over exaggerated. Russell Wilson averages the same amount of carries, but more yards. Now this past game Hurts had much higher than his average, but that was for one game. This complaint by you all is completely overblown. 

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9 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Jalen’s Ypg and rush attempt averages weren’t that high actually. He only averaged 24 yards rush a game, and 5 carries. This is all over exaggerated. Russell Wilson averages the same amount of carries, but more yards. Now this past game Hurts had much higher than his average, but that was for one game. This complaint by you all is completely overblown. 

You are basing your numbers on the entire season, in games when Wentz was the starter, and he came in for one carry.  In his 5 starts he has run for 334 yards on 53 carries.  That is 67 yards and 10.6 carries per game.  That average is decreased by the fact he did not finish his 4th career game ( benched week 17 last year )

At that pace, he would run for 1,068 yards.  I calculated that for 16 games.  That would almost double all but one of Wilson’s rushing seasons.

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21 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Jalen’s Ypg and rush attempt averages weren’t that high actually. He only averaged 24 yards rush a game, and 5 carries. This is all over exaggerated. Russell Wilson averages the same amount of carries, but more yards. Now this past game Hurts had much higher than his average, but that was for one game. This complaint by you all is completely overblown. 

Wrong. 

As a starter, he averages about 67 rushing yards per game on over 10 carries. You're proving my point and you don't even realize that.

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