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EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

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One thing on Dickerson was his comments of shall I make the 10 hour drive now?  One, he can afford an air fare now, but was also willing to get to Philly ASAP and had looked how far it was to drive. Says a lot about him as a person

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5 minutes ago, TEW said:

Hurts to me is a top tier backup/low end starter long term. His athleticism gives him a high floor and the ability to win you some games. But like you, I don't see a high end passer which is what you want in a long term starter.

Now with that said, he is supposedly a very hard worker. I'm willing to give him the  season to prove me wrong. But Howie did the smart thing in accumulating draft resources to make a trade next year if he isn't the guy. The good news is that our own draft pick should be high, so hopefully we don't need to trade the farm to get a passer.

Yup. Howie did a good job this year so far cleaning up the mess that he created. We weren't in a position to land a top QB (unless anyone wanted Jones or Fields) so letting Hurts audition for the year while loading up on assets to make a move next year if he falters makes all the sense in the world.

Also given next year is likely a wash, a BPA draft was absolutely the right approach. Whether or not he can identify the BPA is another issue, but either way it was not the year to reach for positions of need

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10 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Grimes seems reminiscent of Mack Hollins and Hank Baskett...all 3 of whom are bigger, taller, faster athletes than JJAW and Fulgham.  He can get going and get deep when you give him a runway, but is very linear.

Some people call him a special athlete, but most call him a slow stiff on the field.

Nice UDFA pickup...if he wasn't losing all his targets to a player who captures very similar matchups in Pitts, he would have been drafted for sure.

Hollins and Baskett ??? Backhand compliment, 2 top 20 picks R’s on the same field with him. A hidden gem very possibly 

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The thing about this draft is that it was disciplined, they stuck to their draft board, reacted when needed, but never went off the reservation.

Howie miscalculated that only 3 QBs would be off the board, I think he saw Horn, Surtain, Smith and Waddle as equivalent, and that one would be available at #12. When he realized that wasn't unfolding the way he wanted, he was decisive, made the overpay to get the elite player. But the players taken around #84 aren't close to the value to the Eagles of getting an elite WR.

Dickerson is a gamble, but Samuel really wasn't a great fit outside and I think Barmore was off their board b/c of inconsistent motor. Richie Grant at S, meh, Moehrig would have been the better choice. Joseph has talent but character concerns, of course Dallas took him! So it's pretty credible that DIckerson was the BPA for them.

Moving back from 70-73 added a 6th, while Donohue may have been peeved, they ended up getting similar players to the ones they missed, McPhearson v Robinson, Tuipolutu v McNeill, while getting a player that they had targeted - that's why you trade down when you have a group of players you consider equivalent. I think Williams has a lot more upside than McNeill, but isn't as "plug and play" as a DT.

McPhearson will probably get a shot at the Moore role in our defense, may start outside until they upgrade, but would be a good fit for that NCB/3S role.

Gainwell reflects the emphasis on RBs as receivers in the Reich offense, Scott is ok in that role, Sanders really struggled last season. I remember a 5'8 201 lb RB who was a great receiver who had a pretty good career here.

Tuipulotu may not be quite as talented as McNeill, but actually has longer arms and a similar build, another high character guy.

Tarron Jackson is a try hard guy, but don't compare him to Cole, Cole was undersized but had great leg explosion, Jackson doesn't. He's going to be on the bubble every year, but he'll work hard in practice, he'd probably be a UDFA in the 2022 draft.

Stevens slowed down when he bulked up, which limits him as a LB, and may not cover well enough for safety. ST and package player at best, another 2022 UDFA type.

And that's why they traded down with WFT, after the Stevens pick, they were adding bodies, so better a 2022 5th than two guys who you could sign after the 2022 draft.

Patrick Johnson is a first rate athlete without a position, like Avery he has to find a role at LB or excel on STs, b/c they don't use a joker enough to justify a roster spot for a stand up pass rusher. Another 2022 UDFA.

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35 minutes ago, TEW said:

Hurts to me is a top tier backup/low end starter long term. His athleticism gives him a high floor and the ability to win you some games. But like you, I don't see a high end passer which is what you want in a long term starter.

Now with that said, he is supposedly a very hard worker. I'm willing to give him the  season to prove me wrong. But Howie did the smart thing in accumulating draft resources to make a trade next year if he isn't the guy. The good news is that our own draft pick should be high, so hopefully we don't need to trade the farm to get a passer.

By high you mean the 32nd pick, of course.

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I thought they had 4 picks in round 6, but only saw 3 picks.  What happened to that extra one?

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3 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

By high you mean the 32nd pick, of course.

Obviously.

Just now, Penn7980 said:

I thought they had 4 picks in round 6, but only saw 3 picks.  What happened to that extra one?

Packaged it with a 7th for a 2022 5th I believe.

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A quick preview of next year's draft class. Of course, a lot will change. Focus on the names, rather than the order.

 

1 Sam Howell QB | North Carolina
2 Kayvon Thibodeaux DL | Oregon
3 Derek Stingley Jr. CB | LSU
4 Drake Jackson DL | USC
5 Kyle Hamilton S | Notre Dame
6 Zach Harrison DL | Ohio State
7 Spencer Rattler QB | Oklahoma
8 Evan Neal OT | Alabama
9 George Pickens WR | Georgia
10 Justyn Ross WR | Clemson
11 Christian Harris LB | Alabama
12 Sevyn Banks CB | Ohio State
13 DeMarvin Leal DL | Texas A&M
14 Bubba Bolden S | Miami (FL)
15 George Karlaftis DL | Purdue
16 Kaiir Elam CB | Florida
17 Zion Nelson OT | Miami (FL)
18 Rasheed Walker OT | Penn State
19 Chris Olave WR | Ohio State
20 Charles Cross OT | Mississippi State
21 Brenton Cox Jr. LB | Florida
22 Nik Bonitto EDGE | Oklahoma
23 Jalen Wydermyer TE | Texas A&M
24 Tyler Shough QB | Texas Tech
25 Tyler Linderbaum IOL | Iowa
26 Kedon Slovis QB | USC
27 Merlin Robertson EDGE | Arizona State
28 John Metchie III WR | Alabama
29 Isaiah Spiller RB | Texas A&M
30 Cade Mays IOL | Tennessee
31 Kenyon Green IOL | Texas A&M
32 Ventrell Miller LB | Florida

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2022/consensus-big-board-2022

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^ Kayvon Thibodeaux or Zach Harrison please, if not both.

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1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Mills gets dumped on a lot around here, but he was the anti-Sydney Jones.   Mills never had a moment's hesitation about stepping on the field to compete against anybody.  Not the greatest matchup, bought the double move too much and had no makeup speed, but the guy was a battler who never gave up on a single play.   He was matched up on Julio Jones on the final play of the NFC Divisional game.  I have no doubt that if that was Darby, we lose that game.  Mills battled him the entire play...

 

I for one will miss him this year.   I know that puts me in the minority, but I prefer guys who keep their heads up, no matter what to the ones that look at the ground after they are beat.  And he was beat often, but on a team with a good CB opposite, where you could roll the safety over the top to his side, he was a 'good enough' CB to win.   And we did win with him.   He'll be one of my many favorites from that Super Bowl team for a long long time.

Not to dump on Mills, but Jones slipped and fell.  And once Ryan left the pocket, Mills missed out on the opportunity to push Jones out of the end zone.  If the throw was a foot to the left, we lose, as Mills was on the ground while Jones was elevating for the ball. 

Also, Darby was in coverage on Jones at the end of the opener the following season and did a better job in coverage.

That isn't the play I'd go to. 

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All in all, a solid draft that left me surprised we didn’t invest more heavily at CB, S, LB, TE.

- It’s no secret I didn’t like the trade up for Smith, but I really like the player. Smith can be reasonably assumed to become a plus player quickly. No player is bust proof, but Smith seems like a high probability prospect. 

- Dickerson. We’ve all discussed it. We all know the risk. If he hits, he’s a franchise cornerstone and a potential all-pro center. I probably wouldn’t have taken a shot on him there, but it sounds like he was going soon regardless.

- Williams will get compared to McNeill and Robinson for the next decade due to the awkward exchange between Howie and Donohoe. I much preferred Williams. 

- I didn’t know much about McPhearson predraft, but the smart people I read seem to like him quite a bit. I preferred other corners, but I won’t pretend like I’m an expert. I’ll side with the smart people. 

- Gainwell wouldn’t ever be expected to become a lead back, but he can be a nice complementary player and passing down back. I’ve always liked Duke Johnson. If he can be that kind of player, I’m happy. 

- Tuipulotu seems like the kind of player who can stick around as a DT3/4 for a long time depending on how his back holds up.  

- Of all the picks, Tarron Jackson probably is my least favorite. I just don’t see it with him. I would have preferred to take one of the many safeties and corners still on the board. 

- On paper, I really like Stevens as a LB. He’s tough, physical, can cover TEs and RBs. He’s a conversion so he will have to maintain that ability while adding about 15-20 pounds. At the very least, he seems like he will be a productive special teams player. Maybe he can become sort of like Ike Reese.

- The more I read on Patrick Johnson, the more I understood the pick. He wasn’t a true DE at Tulane, as he played off the ball and detached. He has the testing numbers to play SAM, and projects to be a decent blitzer off the edge. He doesn’t have the ability to be a three-down LB, but that’s just fine in round 7. 

Of course all of that is looking at players through an optimistic lens. If our top three picks reach 80 percent of their potential, and any one of our day 3 picks becomes a valuable contributor, this is a great draft. 

 

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41 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

One thing on Dickerson was his comments of shall I make the 10 hour drive now?  One, he can afford an air fare now, but was also willing to get to Philly ASAP and had looked how far it was to drive. Says a lot about him as a person

That kid is a throw back for sure.  If someone gets a cheap shot on our QB, it won’t be Peters retaliating, it’ll be Dickerson.  You can tell he loves the physicality of football and would play today if he could.  I expect him to be ready week 1, whether or not Eagles do is another story.  Gotta love the Jason Kelce mentality of hurt or injured, if Dickersons hurt you won’t know it. 

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11 minutes ago, TEW said:

Obviously.

Packaged it with a 7th for a 2022 5th I believe.

Yes. Washington’s 5th next year. 

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1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Just so I can try to keep up with this... who are these mobile QBs that 'rule the day'?

 

Here's the last 20 SB winning QBs.
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson (Malcolm Smith), 2TDs
Super Bowl 49: Tom Brady (MVP), 4TDs
Super Bowl 50: Peyton Manning (Von Miller), 0TDs
Super Bowl 51: Tom Brady (MVP), 2TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 53: Tom Brady (Julian Edelman), 0TDs
Super Bowl 54: Patrick Mahomes (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 55: Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs

 

How many were 'mobile' by your definition?   I count 3, maybe... maybe 4.

I think Mahomes and ARod clearly the 2 best QB’s out there and Wilson as well as Watson not too shabby. Brady just didn’t lose the SB for TB. He gets decent protection, maneuvers well within the pocket, quick release, throws the ball away with little turnovers. So a smart guy with a quick release

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2 minutes ago, The guy in France said:

I think Mahomes and ARod clearly the 2 best QB’s out there and Wilson as well as Watson not too shabby. Brady just didn’t lose the SB for TB. He gets decent protection, maneuvers well within the pocket, quick release, throws the ball away with little turnovers. So a smart guy with a quick release

Big Ben was pretty mobile too in his prime.

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13 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

A quick preview of next year's draft class. Of course, a lot will change. Focus on the names, rather than the order.

 

1 Sam Howell QB | North Carolina
2 Kayvon Thibodeaux DL | Oregon
3 Derek Stingley Jr. CB | LSU
4 Drake Jackson DL | USC
5 Kyle Hamilton S | Notre Dame
6 Zach Harrison DL | Ohio State
7 Spencer Rattler QB | Oklahoma
8 Evan Neal OT | Alabama
9 George Pickens WR | Georgia
10 Justyn Ross WR | Clemson
11 Christian Harris LB | Alabama
12 Sevyn Banks CB | Ohio State
13 DeMarvin Leal DL | Texas A&M
14 Bubba Bolden S | Miami (FL)
15 George Karlaftis DL | Purdue
16 Kaiir Elam CB | Florida
17 Zion Nelson OT | Miami (FL)
18 Rasheed Walker OT | Penn State
19 Chris Olave WR | Ohio State
20 Charles Cross OT | Mississippi State
21 Brenton Cox Jr. LB | Florida
22 Nik Bonitto EDGE | Oklahoma
23 Jalen Wydermyer TE | Texas A&M
24 Tyler Shough QB | Texas Tech
25 Tyler Linderbaum IOL | Iowa
26 Kedon Slovis QB | USC
27 Merlin Robertson EDGE | Arizona State
28 John Metchie III WR | Alabama
29 Isaiah Spiller RB | Texas A&M
30 Cade Mays IOL | Tennessee
31 Kenyon Green IOL | Texas A&M
32 Ventrell Miller LB | Florida

https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2022/consensus-big-board-2022

I’ll put money on it now... first pick will be DL 

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6 minutes ago, TEW said:

Big Ben was pretty mobile too in his prime.

I remember when the Blog spent a few week defining "mobile".

I believe what we are discussing now is a running threat on called plays.

Rodgers and a younger Ben where more mobility in the pocket and the random scramble.

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Already excited to see the mayhem in here when we take a USC QB in round 1 next year :ph34r:

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2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I remember when the Blog spent a few week defining "mobile".

I believe what we are discussing now is a running threat on called plays.

Rodgers and a younger Ben where more mobility in the pocket and the random scramble.

Prime Big Ben was damn near impossible to take down in or around the pocket  He wasn't exactly a threat to take off for 50 yard runs but he was slippery as hell.

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1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

I remember when the Blog spent a few week defining "mobile".

I believe what we are discussing now is a running threat on called plays.

Rodgers and a younger Ben where more mobility in the pocket and the random scramble.

A young Rodgers and Ben were more than capable of executing called run plays. Maybe they weren't Mike Vick, but they could definitely hurt you on designed runs. The thing is, why would you? They were both such good passers that you were better off calling a pass play and if the run was there they would take it.

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1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

I don't think mobile QB's are in at all.

Mahomes may be mobile, but he's no runner.  For all his improvisational highlights, his real numbers and productivity come from staying on script and being a great passer.  Ditto Aron Rodgers, Russ Wilson, Watson, and Josh Allen.  Net average of that group scrambles about 5 times per game.  They may be athletic, but they are passers.  All of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round QB's from this draft will not be glorified RB's in the NFL.

Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson sit around 9-10 scrambles per game...and those numbers go up against tougher defenses and critical situations.  And they are problematic as passers.  This is not the blueprint for success.

Hurts was 13.5 per start when you account for only playing 1 half against WTF.  Nearly identical number to Miles Sanders.

The guy is a glorified running back.

Quick to pull the trigger aren’t ya ? He played 4 games, thrown in there. Give him a break. I’d like to see 370+ ypg on offense with less than 21 T/O’s. Last year was 335 ypg and 29 T/O’s in 16 games. If our D improves I’d expect even better ypg. Right now that’s how I’m rolling, not as quick as some to pull the plug

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13 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’ll put money on it now... first pick will be DL 

I sure hope so.  Great DLine draft.  I'm ready for next year's draft now.

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14 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I’ll put money on it now... first pick will be DL 

If I had to bet, I would put my money on a QB.

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1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

He has perfect situation , sit and learn from Brady for a year or two , step in and QB a good team , although I Think he will be doing it for Leftwitch , because I think Bruce retires if they win it all again this year . If he doesn’t teams may poach both the OC and DC next off season, hate to see it , but they would get 4 , 3rd rd picks

I’m not feelin’ it but not my team. I thought you were a Davis Mills fan, Licht F up ?

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