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49 minutes ago, greend said:

Because he's good and I think the lawsuits  are bogus

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

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1 hour ago, RLC said:

Yup. He only played against *check notes*

  • Derek Stingley
  • Kelvin Joseph
  • Kaiir Elam
  • Jaycee Horn
  • Noah Igbinoghene
  • Eric Stokes
  • Tyson Campbell

Right? 

What a clown.

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8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

That DK Metcalf 100 is insane.  Howie, WTF?

Metcalf did not run fast enough to qualify for the Olympic trial.  Will JJAW race him in a 100m match?  

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12 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I guess the question becomes, at what point is the value right to trade for him? A 1st and a 3rd? I doubt they do that, but maybe if Mills shows out. 2 1sts, plus a 4th? 3rd? Ehhh it's maybe more than I would want to give up. 3 1sts, yah, no thanks at all. 

I think it really also depends on how the team does this year. If Smith and Reagor look like a good WR pairing, and Goedert plays up to his potential, I think it'll be a bit more palatable for the fans to understand a trade to get us back in the franchise QB race. 

Then you have to look at salary, fitting him under the cap while filling holes and bringing other guys back.  Goedert, Mailata, Sweat, Barnett and possibly Sanders all need new contracts.  You can bet they are going to spend at CB, S and DL next year in FA as well.  Bringing in Watson really handcuffs what you can do. 

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5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Then you have to look at salary, fitting him under the cap while filling holes and bringing other guys back.  Goedert, Mailata, Sweat, Barnett and possibly Sanders all need new contracts.  You can bet they are going to spend at CB, S and DL next year in FA as well.  Bringing in Watson really handcuffs what you can do. 

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

the king article is talking about watson in 2022. By that time we’ll know what hurts is or isn’t. You hope he’s really good so it’s an easy decision to move forward with him. But if he’s not and Watson’s league troubles are found to be bogus or cleared I’m all for watson. 

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1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

I tend to agree with you on this more than I do with @bpac55. The other thing is, with the guys listed as needing new contracts....Goedert needs to show he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to give him any significant money, unless it was tied to snap counts/playing time. Too much risk for a guy that is often hurt. Mailata, if he continues his trajectory is of course a guy you want to bring back. Sweat/Barnett are interesting....of course depending on money, you'd like them both. Sweat moreso as I think he'll command less money and potentially reward you with more sacks. Health obviously a question there. Barnett....I like some of the stuff he does/brings....but he's such a goddamn moron, it makes it so hard to cheer for him. I would loathe him if he was on any other team I think.

Sanders....I really don't want to give him big money, at all. Health again, but I think he's in that "2nd tier" of RBs in the league. He's certainly a playmaker which we lack, but I'd be fine if they don't pay him a huge contract when the time comes. 

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20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

Under the assumption you draft the right QB. You could wind up just as easily drafting Trubisky, Winston or mariota or even worse and be stuck in purgatory where then you’ve wasted years as well. I rather take my chances with watson as a top 10 QB with the cap about to increase by a lot over the next 2-4 years due to the new tv deals. 

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6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Not saying hurts is or isn’t the answer cause we don’t have that answer yet, but if he doesn’t show that this year you don’t think having a giant hole at QB doesn’t handcuff what you can do? i understand you don’t love the idea of paying a QB that type of money cause it handcuff’s your ability to do other things but if hurts fails (we have no clue either way at the moment) that also handcuffs you as you’d have no QB. I much rather be handcuff having a top 10 QB (assuming all his legal issues are gone) then handcuff by no QB and hoping we draft the right one which is an inexact science 

the king article is talking about watson in 2022. By that time we’ll know what hurts is or isn’t. You hope he’s really good so it’s an easy decision to move forward with him. But if he’s not and Watson’s league troubles are found to be bogus or cleared I’m all for watson. 

I think you can go either way with it.  If Hurts fails then we are most likely looking at a top 5 maybe even top 3 pick in the 2022 draft.  Who knows how the college season is going to play out.  We could see Howell, Rattler, Slovis or an unknown just take a huge step and become a can't miss QB prospect.   Then you're in perfect position to get on of those guys.  

There are so many ifs that go in to this equation.  

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13 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I tend to agree with you on this more than I do with @bpac55. The other thing is, with the guys listed as needing new contracts....Goedert needs to show he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to give him any significant money, unless it was tied to snap counts/playing time. Too much risk for a guy that is often hurt. Mailata, if he continues his trajectory is of course a guy you want to bring back. Sweat/Barnett are interesting....of course depending on money, you'd like them both. Sweat moreso as I think he'll command less money and potentially reward you with more sacks. Health obviously a question there. Barnett....I like some of the stuff he does/brings....but he's such a goddamn moron, it makes it so hard to cheer for him. I would loathe him if he was on any other team I think.

Sanders....I really don't want to give him big money, at all. Health again, but I think he's in that "2nd tier" of RBs in the league. He's certainly a playmaker which we lack, but I'd be fine if they don't pay him a huge contract when the time comes. 

I have a feeling goedert is going to ask for more than what he’s worth tbh. He has missed time every year so far in his career. And imo this upcoming year he needs to make a big jump for me to pay him like i believe the FA market is going to bare out. I’d ideally like to get a deal done but if I’m goedert’s agent unless I’m getting close to what i want i try to ball out this year and use being so close to FA to my advantage. If he does he’s basically where vinny curry was that one year that he was headed into FA. 

mailata if he continues to improve likely gets something similar to what vaitai got in FA. 

Unless barnett blows up this year i think he’s gone. I don’t think they want to pay him if he is just a solid player. Use the money elsewhere. I do agree think sweat is back. 

sanders is going to be a curious case. Howie and the eagles paid mccoy when the time came. I’m betting they do but second contracts with running backs that get paid big money is such a hit or miss proposition and he has some durability concerns. 

I look at it this way. I think the eagles are a 6-7 win team. So likely picking 7-10 area. Meaning you are likely going to have to trade up capital to get the QB you like if hurts isn’t what they wanted. So you likely giving up at least another first to get an unproven rookie QB on a rookie contract. Or your option is watson who’s a proven top 10 QB making a lot of money but with the cap going up due to new tv money. 

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32 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He put up some incredible numbers last year....but if you trade for him, you have to pay him huge money and give up huge draft capital.  

It's just so much easier for the whole process to get it right with a 22 year old in the draft.  I realize that's more of a crap shoot, but paying a ransom for a vet via trade doesn't often end well.

Look, the way we draft I'll trade the draft picks

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46 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Yep.  Playing out this questionable season with a mediocre QB and three 1st round picks in the next draft is the best path to long term success.  There is no doubt that Watson is a superstar, but we need the picks.

Need them and then waste them

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6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think you can go either way with it.  If Hurts fails then we are most likely looking at a top 5 maybe even top 3 pick in the 2022 draft.  Who knows how the college season is going to play out.  We could see Howell, Rattler, Slovis or an unknown just take a huge step and become a can't miss QB prospect.   Then you're in perfect position to get on of those guys.  

There are so many ifs that go in to this equation.  

I don’t think it’s necessarily true if hurts fails you are picking top 5. That’s untrue definitive statement. They could be 6-11 picking at 7 next year and have to move up and give up firsts to get the QB they love and that’s if a team picking ahead is willing to move back and doesn’t need a QB either. They were 4-11-1 picking 6th and according to reports wanted Wilson but couldn’t move up. That very well could happen again. 

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Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

Mahomes, ranking 1, 2, 5

Brees, 2, 3, 6

Jackson 22, 1, 7 (not much of a QB, but makes things happen)

Brady 6, 17, 9

Wilson 11, 5, 8

 

Rodgers, 17, 20, 1

Ryan, 9, 14, 16

Ben 4, ---, 22

 

Allen 25, 25, 3

Dak 18, 4, ---

Wentz, 12, 11, 28

Carr 28, 10, 11

Cousins, 15, 13, 18

Stafford 23, 6, 15

Goff 10, 23, 23

Jones ---, 18, 20

Trubisky, 3, 30, 21

Darnold, 29, 26, 33

 

Dalton 16, 29, 25

Newton 20, ---, 30

Winston 8, 16, ---

Flacco, 19, 22, ---

Rivers 7, 24, 19

 

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I hope we get Watson just so some people have to reverse their position on him

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8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

 

 

@austinfan I think you could admit that "elite QB" is a superfluous definition. Everybody will have different standards of what that means, and how "their guy" fits or doesn't fit into it. QBR is better than QB rating, but both still have inherent flaws. I think a better way of looking at things is comparatively to other QBs. Are there 9 QBs you'd rather have right now (not taking into account off field issues for the sake of discussion) than Watson? 

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7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I have a feeling goedert is going to ask for more than what he’s worth tbh. He has missed time every year so far in his career. And imo this upcoming year he needs to make a big jump for me to pay him like i believe the FA market is going to bare out. I’d ideally like to get a deal done but if I’m goedert’s agent unless I’m getting close to what i want i try to ball out this year and use being so close to FA to my advantage. If he does he’s basically where vinny curry was that one year that he was headed into FA. 

mailata if he continues to improve likely gets something similar to what vaitai got in FA. 

Unless barnett blows up this year i think he’s gone. I don’t think they want to pay him if he is just a solid player. Use the money elsewhere. I do agree think sweat is back. 

sanders is going to be a curious case. Howie and the eagles paid mccoy when the time came. I’m betting they do but second contracts with running backs that get paid big money is such a hit or miss proposition and he has some durability concerns. 

I look at it this way. I think the eagles are a 6-7 win team. So likely picking 7-10 area. Meaning you are likely going to have to trade up capital to get the QB you like if hurts isn’t what they wanted. So you likely giving up at least another first to get an unproven rookie QB on a rookie contract. Or your option is watson who’s a proven top 10 QB making a lot of money but with the cap going up due to new tv money. 

Agree on DG.  It's why I was hoping there could have been a Hayden Hurst draft day trade for him.  Side note, did any players get traded during the draft this year?  I can't think of any.

Barnett is not worth the going rate so I agree, I think he's gone.

Agree on Mailata's value and that's what he should get.

I think Sanders gets a 2nd contract here given his age and the rotation that might be used.

That mindset if we are if we are in the 7-10 range makes sense.  

I'm just hoping Hurts works out.  With so many holes on the team it's nice to think of adding 3 blue chip players to a team lacking so much talent.

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I’d rather keep the picks than trade for Watson

 

Also....he’d have to want to come here lol

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6 minutes ago, greend said:

I hope we get Watson just so some people have to reverse their position on him

At least you know I’m as stubborn as they come.  

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1 hour ago, greend said:

Because he's good and I think the lawsuits  are bogus

If it were a few cases the league would just sweep it under the rug and Watson would pay them off so as to not go public with charges.

I think it's up to 22 cases now of misconduct or harrassment with 2 accusing Watson of sexual assault.

Then again with out video evidence the league isn't going to do anything, they never disciplined Rothlisberger after he paid off what 3 accusers of rape.

She said he said cases are difficult to prove and it's why most sexual assault s are never even reported as the victims end up taking the brunt of the shade.

I'm not going to paint Watson as a victim of some kind of scheme of over 22 women who don't know each other out to get his money, I can't definitively say he did what he's being accused of and I'm not going to frame the victims as lying gold diggers and I can say pretty confidently that the league most likely won't do jack and best outcome for the league and Watson is that he pays them off to make it go away and the league continues to market and make money off him.

The league gave ray rice a slap on the wrist for knocking out his wife on camera and then didn't suspended him til further notice following public pressure and scrutiny.

I doubt they'll do anything to Watson either way I wouldn't want any part of him and I hope the eagles dont either 

One could argue they took a chance on Vick and he did some horrible things, difference is Vick was held accountable and paid his dues and attempted to make amends, Watson has not.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

Mahomes, ranking 1, 2, 5

Brees, 2, 3, 6

Jackson 22, 1, 7 (not much of a QB, but makes things happen)

Brady 6, 17, 9

Wilson 11, 5, 8

 

Rodgers, 17, 20, 1

Ryan, 9, 14, 16

Ben 4, ---, 22

 

Allen 25, 25, 3

Dak 18, 4, ---

Wentz, 12, 11, 28

Carr 28, 10, 11

Cousins, 15, 13, 18

Stafford 23, 6, 15

Goff 10, 23, 23

Jones ---, 18, 20

Trubisky, 3, 30, 21

Darnold, 29, 26, 33

 

Dalton 16, 29, 25

Newton 20, ---, 30

Winston 8, 16, ---

Flacco, 19, 22, ---

Rivers 7, 24, 19

 

Idk couldn’t possibly be his OL has been bad for most of his 4 years as a starter. I know you believe opposite but pff on Watson’s offensive line last year ranked 23rd. In 2019 were 20th and 2018 23rd. 

his oline this year 

tunsil— 75.4

Scharping— 52.1/semi kelemete 54.5

Martin—56.1

Fulton—63

Howard— 62.1

That line was bad last year besides tunsil. Yet he had wentz mvp-esque season like numbers. Maybe his QBR isn’t as good cause his line for most of his career has been below average and bottom 10 in two of the last 3 years. just cause you spent picks on olineman doesn’t mean there good. Howard was a 62 last year which is below average starter grade. 

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This is ideal IMO.

Good enough to not get Carson killed. Not good enough to make them SB contenders.

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51 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Right? 

What a clown.

Only an idiot thinks its WR vs CB out there. 

The best CB would get roasted if the QB has all the time in the world

The best CB will look dumb when he has to play against the run/Play action. 

This isnt the pro's. Guys like Horn and Stingley were playing with dudes who will be working for UPS. 

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19 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Watson has great counting stats, but something is missing.

2020:  12th in QBR

2019:  7th in QBR

2018:  15th in QBR

I like QBR much better than QB rating, because you can put up nice stats by holding the ball too long and taking needless sacks (i.e., you'll complete more passes for more yards per attempt, b/c sacks aren't included in attempts). Given he has an all pro LT the last two years, and a number of other high draft picks on that OL, the high sack rate is more on him than his OL.

Watson isn't an elite QB:

Rodgers, 17, 20, 1

So by your rational, Aaron Rodgers is not an elite QB.  Remember, you said QBR is much better, and he outranked Aaron Rodgers in two of the last 3 seasons on a horribly mismanaged, dysfunctional team.

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6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I’d rather keep the picks than trade for Watson

 

Also....he’d have to want to come here lol

I’d rather keep the picks ideally if hurts proves to be a good QB. However if the eagles wind up not being goo and finishing 6-11 or 7-10 and finishing 7-8th in the draft i much rather use the picks to trade for watson then move up in the draft to get an unproven rookie then a proven top 10 (assuming his legal issues clear up)

second part i think is the more challenging part cause likely have suitors like the Broncos, raiders, panthers and possibly giants to compete with and he could say he rather go there and not want to come here.  

1 minute ago, RLC said:

This is ideal IMO.

Good enough to not get Carson killed. Not good enough to make them SB contenders.

Better question is will Fischer even be ready by week 1. He got injured in the afc title game. 

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2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

So by your rational, Aaron Rodgers is not an elite QB.  Remember, you said QBR is much better, and he outranked Aaron Rodgers in two of the last 3 seasons on a horribly mismanaged, dysfunctional team.

Rodgers believes his team is also horribly mismanaged and dysfunctional so if rodgers is making this argument it’s moot lol. 

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