Deshaun Watson (Texans QB) -- TRADED TO CLEVELAND

[eaglesfan0075]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:13 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Nothing special about 33 TDs to 7 INTs? Nothing special about 70% completion despite playing on a bad team? Watson was on a bad team, Wentz was on a bad team but at least Watson still did a lot of good things. 

When Carson Wentz had a season less impressive than that, we called him an MVP candidate (2017: 3296 passing yards, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 60.2% completion, 101.9 rating).

Why no love for DeShaun Watson when he puts up 4823 passing yards, 70% completion rate and the same 33:7 TD to INT ratio? This is also without DeAndre Hopkins. Speaking strictly from a football perspective, and not taking his current legal situation into account for the sake of this argument.

[D-Shiznit]

Wentz never was, nor will he ever be a better QB than Watson. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

When Carson Wentz had a season less impressive than that, we called him an MVP candidate (2017: 3296 passing yards, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 60.2% completion, 101.9 rating).

Why no love for DeShaun Watson when he puts up 4823 passing yards, 70% completion rate and the same 33:7 TD to INT ratio? This is also without DeAndre Hopkins. Speaking strictly from a football perspective, and not taking his current legal situation into account for the sake of this argument.

So Wentz has slightly more yards and slightly more TDs (in an extra year nearly). And he's done that on a better team. Watson his first 2 years at least had one of the worst OLs in the NFL. 

[eaglesfan0075]

11 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So Wentz has slightly more yards and slightly more TDs (in an extra year nearly). And he's done that on a better team. Watson his first 2 years at least had one of the worst OLs in the NFL. 

Watson is easily better than Wentz, but the Eagles chose the wrong year to trade up for a QB. Wentz was drafted in 2016, Watson was drafted in 2017.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

10 hours ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

Watson is easily better than Wentz, but the Eagles chose the wrong year to trade up for a QB. Wentz was drafted in 2016, Watson was drafted in 2017.

I mean yes and no. Ultimately getting Wentz led us to the SB in 2017. There's no guarantee we do that if we get Watson instead. But yes Watson is absolutely the better QB.

[Aerolithe_Lion]

11 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean yes and no. Ultimately getting Wentz led us to the SB in 2017. There's no guarantee we do that if we get Watson instead. But yes Watson is absolutely the better QB.

I’m not a wentz denier, but how many of those games would we have actually lost without him? We were freaking stacked

And it’s disingenuous to say getting wentz got us a super bowl, unless you mean his injury problems got us a super bowl

[Captain F]

That 2017 team would have made it to the Superbowl with Bobby Hoying playing QB.  With that said....  Wentz made some ridiculous plays that year that not many QBs would have made. Any of them game savers? dunno..   I will say that right now, id take Watson over Wentz 100x out of 100.  None of us, or anyone else would have been able to make that decision in 2016.... 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

12 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

I’m not a wentz denier, but how many of those games would we have actually lost without him? We were freaking stacked

And it’s disingenuous to say getting wentz got us a super bowl, unless you mean his injury problems got us a super bowl

Foles absolutely does not win 11 games or whatever it was that Wentz had when he got hurt. There's just no way. We know foles is very up and down and very inconsistent as he has been his whole career. 

[MillerTime]

On 6/2/2021 at 1:50 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Foles absolutely does not win 11 games or whatever it was that Wentz had when he got hurt. There's just no way. We know foles is very up and down and very inconsistent as he has been his whole career. 

Foles went 5-1 that year beating 3 playoff teams and losing a game that didn’t matter. Wentz 11-2. Foles was literally on pace to do what Wentz did.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, MillerTime said:

Foles went 5-1 that year beating 3 playoff teams and losing a game that didn’t matter. Wentz 11-2. Foles was literally on pace to do what Wentz did.

I mean... Sure... But against who? He gets a W against Oakland in a terrible game where let's be honest the D really got the W. Carson that year at times was the main reason this team won. In those 4 games I'm not sure Foles was.

[MillerTime]

4 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean... Sure... But against who? He gets a W against Oakland in a terrible game where let's be honest the D really got the W. Carson that year at times was the main reason this team won. In those 4 games I'm not sure Foles was.

3 playoff teams including Tom Brady who threw for 500 yards. And he threw 4 tds against the Giants in his 1st game.

Wentz had a terrible game against Dallas and we still won 37-9.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, MillerTime said:

3 playoff teams including Tom Brady who threw for 500 yards. And he threw 4 tds against the Giants in his 1st game.

Wentz had a terrible game against Dallas and we still won 37-9.

 

I'm talking regular season...

[Aerolithe_Lion]

5 hours ago, MillerTime said:

3 playoff teams including Tom Brady who threw for 500 yards. And he threw 4 tds against the Giants in his 1st game.

Wentz had a terrible game against Dallas and we still won 37-9.

 

A Falcons playoff team who scored 10 points on us, there are 40 QBs in the league who could have won that game.

 

and then a Vikings team we beat by 30. Sudfeld (was he the backup then?) also would have had a good shot at winning that one.

We would have made the Super Bowl that year with many guys at QB, but Nick did win the last game in Spectacular fashion... maybe the only guy on earth who coulda pulled that off.

[MillerTime]

45 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

A Falcons playoff team who scored 10 points on us, there are 40 QBs in the league who could have won that game.

 

and then a Vikings team we beat by 30. Sudfeld (was he the backup then?) also would have had a good shot at winning that one.

We would have made the Super Bowl that year with many guys at QB, but Nick did win the last game in Spectacular fashion... maybe the only guy on earth who coulda pulled that off.

It wasn’t really an argument for Foles. I agree that most QBs could have won those game. His statement was Wentz was the reason we were 11-2 before that game and that there was no way Foles would have done the same. I was saying Foles was 5-1 and could have done the same thing. I was more saying the team was gonna win those games as long as we had anyone average at QB. Which I think we agree on.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

17 hours ago, MillerTime said:

It wasn’t really an argument for Foles. I agree that most QBs could have won those game. His statement was Wentz was the reason we were 11-2 before that game and that there was no way Foles would have done the same. I was saying Foles was 5-1 and could have done the same thing. I was more saying the team was gonna win those games as long as we had anyone average at QB. Which I think we agree on.

My argument is that Foles doesn't have the consistency to win 11 games in a year. But we shall never know. 

[eaglesfan0075]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:20 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

My argument is that Foles doesn't have the consistency to win 11 games in a year. But we shall never know. 

Yeah, I'd agree with this point although he did come pretty close in his 2013 breakout season filling in for Michael Vick. The Eagles were 1-3 before Foles came in to relieve Vick in Week 5. The team finished 10-6 that year before losing to the Saints in the Wild Card game, so you can attribute 9 of those wins as occurring when Foles was starting.

[EazyEaglez]

On 5/31/2021 at 3:16 PM, eaglesfan0075 said:

Watson is easily better than Wentz, but the Eagles chose the wrong year to trade up for a QB. Wentz was drafted in 2016, Watson was drafted in 2017.

That’s when Howie said he didn’t see any future talented players at the quarterback position over the next couple of years and both Mahomes and Watson were drafted after Wentz and bother are better than him. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

16 hours ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

Yeah, I'd agree with this point although he did come pretty close in his 2013 breakout season filling in for Michael Vick. The Eagles were 1-3 before Foles came in to relieve Vick in Week 5. The team finished 10-6 that year before losing to the Saints in the Wild Card game, so you can attribute 9 of those wins as occurring when Foles was starting.

Yeah you're right he did... I still think that was a somewhat misleading season. I mean Chip Kelly looked like a genius that year. 

[ManchesterEagle]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:26 AM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

A Falcons playoff team who scored 10 points on us, there are 40 QBs in the league who could have won that game.

 

and then a Vikings team we beat by 30. Sudfeld (was he the backup then?) also would have had a good shot at winning that one.

We would have made the Super Bowl that year with many guys at QB, but Nick did win the last game in Spectacular fashion... maybe the only guy on earth who coulda pulled that off.

 

On 6/4/2021 at 1:18 AM, MillerTime said:

It wasn’t really an argument for Foles. I agree that most QBs could have won those game. His statement was Wentz was the reason we were 11-2 before that game and that there was no way Foles would have done the same. I was saying Foles was 5-1 and could have done the same thing. I was more saying the team was gonna win those games as long as we had anyone average at QB. Which I think we agree on.

 

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Yeah you're right he did... I still think that was a somewhat misleading season. I mean Chip Kelly looked like a genius that year. 

I hear the argument that Foles can't get it done over a full season, because he never has. 2013 was the closest, but even that wasn't a full season. I think we know what Foles is now, which is an extremely good back-up who if he is hot and has a decent O-Line, is capable of playing as well as anybody in the league for a period. I'd be interested to see what he could do on a team like the Saints. Could also see him potentially backing up Mahomes eventually in KC.

But I'm not buying that Sudfeld could have beaten the Falcons or the Vikings. Sure Foles only put up 15 on the Falcons, but he played really well in the 2nd half and controlled the ball and didn't turn it over. Kept Ryan off the field and with bad field position.

The Vikings as well, Foles played out of his mind in that game. It's easy to say he only had to beat 7 points, but football is a momentum game and that drive ending in the Jeffery TD basically broke the Vikings. If Sudfeld was back there turning it over, getting sacked and going 3 and out then it would have been a very different game. 

[EazyEaglez]

On 6/1/2021 at 2:23 PM, What The F said:

That 2017 team would have made it to the Superbowl with Bobby Hoying playing QB.  With that said....  Wentz made some ridiculous plays that year that not many QBs would have made. Any of them game savers? dunno..   I will say that right now, id take Watson over Wentz 100x out of 100.  None of us, or anyone else would have been able to make that decision in 2016.... 

Yeah I don’t agree with that bud. Clearly the quarterback play for that team needed to be high level stuff. They didn’t win a lot of the games where the quarterback played poorly. They certainly weren’t going to win with Hoying throwing it to the other team. The final games of that season people wanted to actually bench Foles, because he was stinking up the joint. High level quarterback play was needed to beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl. I agree the 2017 team was deep, but the Eagles never got that MVP level play from Wentz again (he was insane on 3rd down and in the Red Zone that year easily converting 3rd and long plays…) and the team never got close to another bowl either. 

[EazyEaglez]

22 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

I hear the argument that Foles can't get it done over a full season, because he never has. 2013 was the closest, but even that wasn't a full season. I think we know what Foles is now, which is an extremely good back-up who if he is hot and has a decent O-Line, is capable of playing as well as anybody in the league for a period. I'd be interested to see what he could do on a team like the Saints. Could also see him potentially backing up Mahomes eventually in KC.

But I'm not buying that Sudfeld could have beaten the Falcons or the Vikings. Sure Foles only put up 15 on the Falcons, but he played really well in the 2nd half and controlled the ball and didn't turn it over. Kept Ryan off the field and with bad field position.

The Vikings as well, Foles played out of his mind in that game. It's easy to say he only had to beat 7 points, but football is a momentum game and that drive ending in the Jeffery TD basically broke the Vikings. If Sudfeld was back there turning it over, getting sacked and going 3 and out then it would have been a very different game. 

I agree. Sudfeld couldn’t even score against Dallas in the game where they took Foles out. He never showed he could ever play at a high level at any moment. The one chance Sudfeld had to prove he deserved to be the legit back up he got hurt and never took the job away from a 41 year old dude. No shot we win if he were playing quarterback. 

[EazyEaglez]

18 hours ago, eaglesfan0075 said:

Yeah, I'd agree with this point although he did come pretty close in his 2013 breakout season filling in for Michael Vick. The Eagles were 1-3 before Foles came in to relieve Vick in Week 5. The team finished 10-6 that year before losing to the Saints in the Wild Card game, so you can attribute 9 of those wins as occurring when Foles was starting.

Foles probably could have won more if he hadn’t got hurt and they had to put Vick back out there that year too. It just seems like even if Foles was playing well he could never stay healthy. 

[MillerTime]

3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

I hear the argument that Foles can't get it done over a full season, because he never has. 2013 was the closest, but even that wasn't a full season. I think we know what Foles is now, which is an extremely good back-up who if he is hot and has a decent O-Line, is capable of playing as well as anybody in the league for a period. I'd be interested to see what he could do on a team like the Saints. Could also see him potentially backing up Mahomes eventually in KC.

But I'm not buying that Sudfeld could have beaten the Falcons or the Vikings. Sure Foles only put up 15 on the Falcons, but he played really well in the 2nd half and controlled the ball and didn't turn it over. Kept Ryan off the field and with bad field position.

The Vikings as well, Foles played out of his mind in that game. It's easy to say he only had to beat 7 points, but football is a momentum game and that drive ending in the Jeffery TD basically broke the Vikings. If Sudfeld was back there turning it over, getting sacked and going 3 and out then it would have been a very different game. 

No one even brought up Sudfeld. He is well below average. I honestly think the Eagles kept him around because Wentz liked him.

[Mike030270]

I thought this thread was about Watson

[ManchesterEagle]

On 6/4/2021 at 12:26 AM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

A Falcons playoff team who scored 10 points on us, there are 40 QBs in the league who could have won that game.

 

and then a Vikings team we beat by 30. Sudfeld (was he the backup then?) also would have had a good shot at winning that one.

We would have made the Super Bowl that year with many guys at QB, but Nick did win the last game in Spectacular fashion... maybe the only guy on earth who coulda pulled that off.

 

14 hours ago, MillerTime said:

No one even brought up Sudfeld. He is well below average. I honestly think the Eagles kept him around because Wentz liked him.

Yes they did - read the above post!

But yeah, never really showed why they kept him around for so long.