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Traveler Vic

NFL Draft Ongoing Discussion - grade the Eagles draft

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12 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I give this draft Grade B. Even though before the draft I was hoping it would be a lot higher.

 

1) I like Smith pick. Do not like giving up a third for him, but I can live with it. A

2) Dickerson...I have issues with his medical history. Should have never been picked this high. F for value. B for talent. F for availability (4 out 5 seasons on IR).

3)Williams..is a C.

4)McPhearson CB is A for Value. Tough kid. Like him. A

5)Gainwell is an A for Value. Very talented kid. A overall.

6(1)) Tui...is good Value and has potential. Overall a B.

6(2)) To me he is a reasonable value reach. C

7) Johnson is also reasonable value. C

Summary: 3 real good players A, 3 average picks C. 1 very high medical risk pick. D-

What is your by pick assesment?

I only had a real problem with the second and third round picks. If they needed players at those positions it made more sense to grab Barmore at 2, BPA CB at 3 and a C anytime later. Why in hell would you grab an obvious injury issue on a team that cant keep anyone healthy? No matter how good he is, cant play for you on IR.

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Draft selections - C

Areas of need, with higher rated folks being passed up for projects at lesser needed positions.  The typical Howie M.O.  I know you don't chase to fill areas of need, but there is a point where you HAVE to fill areas of need over a project who may be one tenth of one percent higher on make believe in-house scale.

Losing out on the CB the scouts wanted in the 3rd round, due to Howie's Wheelin' and Dealin' to get YET ANOTHER 6th round pick is the reason this FO is hopeless.  Would be nice for the oft injured players to be productive,  but we ALL know how that works out for us with Howie at the helm.

Lots of games turned off at half time this year, as the opposing teams are marching up and down the field on us at will, with ZERO ability to put up any kind of opposition. 

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7 hours ago, zombywolf said:

I only had a real problem with the second and third round picks. If they needed players at those positions it made more sense to grab Barmore at 2, BPA CB at 3 and a C anytime later. Why in hell would you grab an obvious injury issue on a team that cant keep anyone healthy? No matter how good he is, cant play for you on IR.

I am 100% convinced that grabbing a top defensive player would have contributed more to this team then taking unnecessary medical risk on Dickerson.

Barmore DT, Onwuzurike DT, Kelvin Joseph CB, Ojulari DE, Samuel CB were available. If they wanted a HEALTHY offensive lineman than Jenkins or Eichenberg were available. (Both can play Guard.)

Koramoah LB and Moehrig S may not have been on the Eagles radar, but they certainly were on my radar.

My top preference at #37 were either Barmore or Koramoah. 

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6 hours ago, CountBlah said:

Draft selections - C

Areas of need, with higher rated folks being passed up for projects at lesser needed positions.  The typical Howie M.O.  I know you don't chase to fill areas of need, but there is a point where you HAVE to fill areas of need over a project who may be one tenth of one percent higher on make believe in-house scale.

Losing out on the CB the scouts wanted in the 3rd round, due to Howie's Wheelin' and Dealin' to get YET ANOTHER 6th round pick is the reason this FO is hopeless.  Would be nice for the oft injured players to be productive,  but we ALL know how that works out for us with Howie at the helm.

Lots of games turned off at half time this year, as the opposing teams are marching up and down the field on us at will, with ZERO ability to put up any kind of opposition. 

 

1 minute ago, Traveler Vic said:

I am 100% convinced that grabbing a top defensive player would have contributed more to this team then taking unnecessary medical risk on Dickerson.

Barmore DT, Onwuzurike DT, Kelvin Joseph CB, Ojulari DE, Samuel CB. If they wanted a HEALTHY offensive lineman than Jenkins or Eichenberg were available. (Both can play Guard.)

Koramoah LB and Moehrig S may not have been on the Eagles radar, but they certainly were on my radar.

My top preference at #37 were either Barmore or Koramoah. 

When it comes to injuries "Hope is not a strategy" - Howie Roseman.

Sure seems that hope is a strategy.

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3 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

When it comes to injuries "Hope is not a strategy" - Howie Roseman.

Sure seems that hope is a strategy.

Howie is right "Hope is not a strategy" But it is he who Hopes for a miracle..

Before Howie, the village idiot GM..there was a highly respected GM/ Head Coach..Bill Parcels..who said: "The best ability..Is availability". 

I am sick and tired of Howie ignoring medical history; and gambling on long shots,... to make full medical recovery. OOOO!!!! LOOK AT ME I bought a broken Rolls Royce cheap!!!

Howie is a gambler, who CONSTANTLY makes these risky bets instead of higher probability of success calculations. A healthy Toyota will get you a lot farther than a Broken Rolls Royce.

 

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7 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Howie is right "Hope is not a strategy" But it is he who Hopes for a miracle..

No it is us who hopes for a miracle. A miracle that Lurie sees sense and fires Howie. 

7 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

I am sick and tired of Howie ignoring medical history; and gambling on long shots,... to make full medical recovery. OOOO!!!! LOOK AT ME I bought a broken Rolls Royce cheap!!!

But we kill him for passing on Metcalf. He didn't ignore the medical history there did he? 

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23 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No it is us who hopes for a miracle. A miracle that Lurie sees sense and fires Howie. 

But we kill him for passing on Metcalf. He didn't ignore the medical history there did he? 

LOL. Behead the Monster and burn him at the stake. NFL.COM ranks Roseman the third worst GM in the league....And when you GM is ranked very near the bottom...It sucks.

NFL.com’s Gregg Rosenthal recently ranked all 32 NFL general managers based on how they used their draft capital over the past five years.

Rosenthal didn’t include the nine GMs who have run one draft or less.

Eagles general manager Howie Roseman landed at the bottom of the list at No. 21, ahead of only Dave Gettleman (Giants) and Mike Mayock (Raiders).

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2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

No it is us who hopes for a miracle. A miracle that Lurie sees sense and fires Howie. 

But we kill him for passing on Metcalf. He didn't ignore the medical history there did he? 

Passing on Metcalf is one of the most unfair pieces of abuse that Howie gets. Two more wide receivers went before Metcalf. Heck the Pats took NKeal Harry in the first. Clearly a lot of people had him as a no go because of injuries. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But I don’t condemn Howie for it. (Picking an absolute bust in JJAW however is Howie’s fault)

Howie’s main failings are his overall not very good drafting record in terms of talent  (it’s not nearly as bad as people make out, but it’s still at best a bit below average - we need more) and him consistently neglecting the D in the early rounds of the draft to the point we have almost zero young talent on the D.

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2 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

LOL. Behead the Monster and burn him at the stake. NFL.COM ranks Roseman the third worst GM in the league....And when you GM is ranked very near the bottom...It sucks.

NFL.com’s Gregg Rosenthal recently ranked all 32 NFL general managers based on how they used their draft capital over the past five years.

Rosenthal didn’t include the nine GMs who have run one draft or less.

Eagles general manager Howie Roseman landed at the bottom of the list at No. 21, ahead of only Dave Gettleman (Giants) and Mike Mayock (Raiders).

Most of the NFL.com writers suck. Don’t get me started on David Carr’s nepotism.

Somebody did a proper analysis of all teams draft picks (think it’s on here somewhere) and Howie came out just a bit below average. (Still not good enough)

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1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Most of the NFL.com writers suck. Don’t get me started on David Carr’s nepotism.

Somebody did a proper analysis of all teams draft picks (think it’s on here somewhere) and Howie came out just a bit below average. (Still not good enough)

Maybe you are right..but it is not just the picks..Dumping so many resources and then loosing Wentz..must have played a large role in that grade. The bottom Line, even though some positions were not addressed in this draft, I think Howie did a decent job of wheeling and dealing ,in this draft, to deserve a B. 🙂

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4 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Eagles general manager Howie Roseman landed at the bottom of the list at No. 21, ahead of only Dave Gettleman (Giants) and Mike Mayock (Raiders).

I'm not sure I'd put him ahead of Mayock or Gettleman. 

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2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Howie’s main failings are his overall not very good drafting record in terms of talent  (it’s not nearly as bad as people make out, but it’s still at best a bit below average - we need more) and him consistently neglecting the D in the early rounds of the draft to the point we have almost zero young talent on the D.

Dude come on... His drafting is terrible. His awful drafting is why this team is in such a mess. 

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5 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Dude come on... His drafting is terrible. His awful drafting is why this team is in such a mess. 

I wouldn’t say terrible. Honestly - take a random look at some other teams drafts and you’ll be surprised at how much they miss as well. 
 

He has had some good picks including Mailata, Sanders, Goedert etc.

But yeah his drafting hasn’t been good and is one of the main reasons we are in a bit of a mess.

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1 minute ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I wouldn’t say terrible. Honestly - take a random look at some other teams drafts and you’ll be surprised at how much they miss as well. 
 

He has had some good picks including Mailata, Sanders, Goedert etc.

But yeah his drafting hasn’t been good and is one of the main reasons we are in a bit of a mess.

But I don't really care about other teams failings. Other GMs being also bad doesn't support Howie being bad. Howie is bad at drafting. Look at his drafts.

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Was a good draft.  Listened more to our scouts I think and it paid off.  The first five picks look good enough to play and contribute this year and several look like rock stars.  The last few picks are fliers that might work out.  In recent years, we have had drafts where few picks contributed so let's give the Eagles some credit here.  They may have fixed their drafting problem.

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1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But I don't really care about other teams failings. Other GMs being also bad doesn't support Howie being bad. Howie is bad at drafting. Look at his drafts.

Not great but not as bad as people think:

2016 - Good draft - I know Wentz's decline clouds things slightly, but he did help us win our only Super Bowl and we got a likely first and a 3rd for him. Isaac has developed into a solid starter. Vaitai was great value in the 5th as was Mills in the 7th.

2017 - Bad draft - absolutely. Barnett has been solid to good when healthy. That's all you can say really.

2018 - good draft - Goedert is really good. Maddox is a good slot corner and can play safety (stop trying to play him on the outside). Sweat is a good rotational end. Mailata could have been the steal of the draft.

2019 - looks bad, but a lot depends on what happens with Dillard. Sanders is a stud. JJAW a disaster.

2020 - way too early to grade. If Hurts turns into our franchise QB, then it's a really good draft no matter what. Reagor was hurt and in a bad situation. Can he develop into a 800 yard 6 TD deep threat? Can either Taylor or Wallace develop into starters. Watkins showed flashes - can he contribute?

Ultimately I think the 2020 class will and should define Howie and we will know a lot more about that class this year. If Hurts is our guy and a couple of the others step up - then Howie has bought himself more time. If not, I think Lurie should and hopefully will move on.

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1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Not great but not as bad as people think:

Not bad as people think and then you break it down and actually it's really bad. 

2016 was an OK draft despite the Wentz stuff. Wentz helped win us a SB so there's no argument there. And Seumalo has been a good starting LG.

2017 was just a stinker no getting away from that. 

2018 was not good. Look Goedert is a good player but that was their first pick in the draft. They used it on a back up TE who going in to year 3 still hasn't emerged as the starter. I mean what was the plan when they drafted him? Because as of right now Ertz is still on this team. Maddox had a good rookie year and has been bad since. 

2019 was OK but only OK.

2020 it is too early to tell but right now it looks bad. If they hit on Reagor they likely don't need to draft Smith in the first this year. Hurts OK fine he's now the starter but he was drafted to be a back up. The rest of the draft is a lot of guys who may or may not be on the team in a years time. 

Barely any guys since 2016 are still on this roster. That's a bad job by Howie. He's a bad bad talent evaluator.

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2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Not bad as people think and then you break it down and actually it's really bad. 

2016 was an OK draft despite the Wentz stuff. Wentz helped win us a SB so there's no argument there. And Seumalo has been a good starting LG.

2017 was just a stinker no getting away from that. 

2018 was not good. Look Goedert is a good player but that was their first pick in the draft. They used it on a back up TE who going in to year 3 still hasn't emerged as the starter. I mean what was the plan when they drafted him? Because as of right now Ertz is still on this team. Maddox had a good rookie year and has been bad since. 

2019 was OK but only OK.

2020 it is too early to tell but right now it looks bad. If they hit on Reagor they likely don't need to draft Smith in the first this year. Hurts OK fine he's now the starter but he was drafted to be a back up. The rest of the draft is a lot of guys who may or may not be on the team in a years time. 

Barely any guys since 2016 are still on this roster. That's a bad job by Howie. He's a bad bad talent evaluator.

Agree with most of this but:

2018 - disagree - Goedert has been really good most of the time (Look at what he did with Ertz hurt in 2020). He will be the starter, we just need to get him locked up. He's top 5 TE upside. Mailata looks like our future LT. To get him in the 7th is incredible. We didn't have many picks but he did a good job with most of them.

2020 - Yeah look Reagor looks like a mistake (we both wanted Reagor at the time), but he's a different receiver to Smith and the hope is they form our starting WRs for years to come. Hurts was never drafted to be the back-up. He was drafted at the very least to being an alternative to Wentz. Wentz knew that as well.

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1 minute ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Agree with most of this but:

2018 - disagree - Goedert has been really good most of the time (Look at what he did with Ertz hurt in 2020). He will be the starter, we just need to get him locked up. He's top 5 TE upside. Mailata looks like our future LT. To get him in the 7th is incredible. We didn't have many picks but he did a good job with most of them.

2020 - Yeah look Reagor looks like a mistake (we both wanted Reagor at the time), but he's a different receiver to Smith and the hope is they form our starting WRs for years to come. Hurts was never drafted to be the back-up. He was drafted at the very least to being an alternative to Wentz. Wentz knew that as well.

I like Goedert, I'm a fan of his and think he could be really good. But at this point we don't know how good and we have to lock him up his year or let him walk. So what was the medium term strategy there when they drafted him? Mailata looked good last year yes but let's not get ahead of ourselves. 

I agree that Reagor may now work out. I'm certainly not writing him off yet! But if we draft Jefferson last year then in all likelihood they are using their first round pick on another position this year. Now maybe long term this works out better for us. Maybe Reagor and Smith become a formidable duo. But they messed up there and as a result had to use more premium resources on the position. And if Reagor doesn't work out then they need to use more resources on the position as you can't just have one WR.

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6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I like Goedert, I'm a fan of his and think he could be really good. But at this point we don't know how good and we have to lock him up his year or let him walk. So what was the medium term strategy there when they drafted him?

Two tight-end sets.  That was the plan, but Doug and co. could scheme it up well.  And Carson proceeded to have back-to-back poor seasons.

I do think that even if we drafted Jefferson, we would have still drafted Smith as well.  Can you imagine that tandem?

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2 minutes ago, Philthy Jawn said:

I do think that even if we drafted Jefferson, we would have still drafted Smith as well.  Can you imagine that tandem?

I mean yeah imagine if they had that tandem! But with the holes on this roster I'm not sure they would have. But hey we will never know. 

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On 4/27/2021 at 12:30 AM, The Blackfish said:

QB  Jamie Newman - Wake Forest, opt out GA in 2020.  He really only has 2019 season to his credit and the opt out, plus taking 4 sacks at the Senior Bowl killed his draft stock, he doesn’t go through his progressions, but he has a really accurate deep ball and can make every throw.   

C  David Moore - Grambling. 6ft 350lbs, trains with Bruce Matthews, voted O Lineman MVP by the D Line at the Senior Bowl because he destroyed everyone put in front of him. 

DT  Milton Williams - Louisiana Tech 6’4” 280lbs.  Tested 99th percentile in the 3 cone, vertical, broad, and 40yd.  93rd percentile in the 10yd split and bench was 87th.

CB  Zach McPhearson - Texas Tech 5’11 195lbs, recovered a blocked punt and ran it back 90 yards, 4 ints, All Big 12 first team. 
 

I went back several pages to see if anyone mentioned this post.  Blackfish posted this BEFORE the draft.  The Eagles drafted Williams and McPhearson and signed Newman as UDFA.  That's 3 out of 4 he hit on a couple days before the draft.  Well done, sir.  You don't happen to work somewhere in the Eagles FO, do you?

 

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1 hour ago, Green_Guinness said:

I went back several pages to see if anyone mentioned this post.  Blackfish posted this BEFORE the draft.  The Eagles drafted Williams and McPhearson and signed Newman as UDFA.  That's 3 out of 4 he hit on a couple days before the draft.  Well done, sir.  You don't happen to work somewhere in the Eagles FO, do you?

 

No and the Eagles along with the fans would have choked me out after I drafted David Moore in the 5th or 6th round.  They are just guys I saw a lot of and thought they were good underrated picks.   Moore was from the Senior Bowl and going back to watch him play a little bit.  I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s starting for Carolina in 2022 as a center. He’s barely 6’1”, can dunk, plus do a backflip.
 

 

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Kind of an off-topic re the draft.  Saw a number of teams had their owner, HC and GM announced the team's picks.  Only saw the Eagles President made one late round pick.  I did not watch the entire 7-round draft and could miss someone.  If true, our top brass missed the chance to show their face and make the connection with the fan base.

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On 5/3/2021 at 6:02 AM, ManchesterEagle said:

and him consistently neglecting the D in the early rounds of the draft to the point we have almost zero young talent on the D.

But, if I understand correctly, it is Lurie (who happens to own the team) who dictates the emphasis on the offense.

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