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Mlodj

The 2020 Corona Thread

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Being an old lady (almost) now, older people DO pay more.  Remember just the art of aging is increasing your risk of multiple health issues.  I have spent/paid ALOT on medical.  This is my 1st year of opening  an FSA.  Never had to do that before.  

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1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

agreed. it should work the same way as auto insurance. how obese are we talking though?  :unsure:  

It should be up to the insurance company. I'd personally look at the relationship between BMI and health outcomes, and maybe set it at anything over 30, which is defined as obese.

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BMI 25 or under is the goal. Normal

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5 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Ok, right.  Gender will be ok politically if males have to pay more but I don't think it will be accepted if females or other have to pay more.

women already get a break on car insurance. let them pay more for heath insurance. :lol:  

srsly, i might be dead wrong but it seems like women have a sheetload more medial appointments than men...fwiw. 

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1 minute ago, mr_hunt said:

women already get a break on car insurance. let them pay more for heath insurance. :lol:  

srsly, i might be dead wrong but it seems like women have a sheetload more medial appointments than men...fwiw. 

Why the hell do the worst drivers get breaks?  I did not know this.  I just figured there was an asian lady over 50 surcharge of $10k.

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13 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Should Sweden have mandated masks in all indoor public spaces before October?

As a central strong general recommendation yes but not a general central policy mandated everywhere no.  We rely on the recommended policies which I think are good enough here though that might not work in some countries/regions.  Some establishments require a mask though to come in which is fine with me.  Also, I'd support a mandate for any public space that can't enforce distancing.  I'd also support a mandate generally for regions of outbreak above a certain threshold (don't know what that threshold is per se).

btw - When you say "mandate" is there any teeth behind it?  Fines? etc.  For it to be an actual "mandate" I'd expect actual enforced fines and not just $10.  Say $500 minimum as was done in Spain/France.  Get some teeth in there or the "mandat" aspect is worthless and you're far better off with a recommendation.

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4 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

women already get a break on car insurance. let them pay more for heath insurance. :lol:  

srsly, i might be dead wrong but it seems like women have a sheetload more medial appointments than men...fwiw. 

Not if you’re currently maintaining good prostate and colon health. 

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47 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

You don't seem to understand that explaining the why/how about something isn't the same thing as defending it.

If you say "I generally support the strategy" I am left with little else to take away.

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5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

women already get a break on car insurance. let them pay more for heath insurance. :lol:  

srsly, i might be dead wrong but it seems like women have a sheetload more medial appointments than men...fwiw. 

Well I'm ok with it but I don't think it will be acceptable politically on the left.  Also, what to do with the "other" category?

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Sooooooooo surprised 

 

Report: Biden Admin Discovers Trump Had Zero Plans For COVID Vaccine Distribution

As they were settling into the White House on Wednesday, Biden administration officials were reportedly stunned to discover that President Joe Biden’s predecessor didn’t have a plan with regards to distributing the COVID-19 vaccine.A source told CNN on Thursday morning that the new administration will "have to build everything from scratch” thanks to former President Donald Trump’s reported lack of strategy with the vaccine rollout.

"There is nothing for us to rework,” they said.

Biden will have to start from "square one,” said another source, who called Trump’s nonexistent distribution plan "just further affirmation of complete incompetence

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution

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5 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

As a central strong general recommendation yes but not a general central policy mandated everywhere no.  We rely on the recommended policies which I think are good enough here though that might not work in some countries/regions.  Some establishments require a mask though to come in which is fine with me.  Also, I'd support a mandate for any public space that can't enforce distancing.  I'd also support a mandate generally for regions of outbreak above a certain threshold (don't know what that threshold is per se).

btw - When you say "mandate" is there any teeth behind it?  Fines? etc.  For it to be an actual "mandate" I'd expect actual enforced fines and not just $10.  Say $500 minimum as was done in Spain/France.  Get some teeth in there or the "mandat" aspect is worthless and you're far better off with a recommendation.

Mandate meaning by law, and with penalties via fines, yes. Anything less than a mandate is insane given what we know about this virus and how it spreads. Your policy makers over there have clearly failed you. Don't interpret that as an implication I think US leaders have fared any better here, but mandates are low-hanging fruits and basically no-brainers from a public policy standpoint. I can't wrap my head around why people would ever say otherwise. 

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1 minute ago, Toastrel said:

If you say "I generally support the strategy" I am left with little else to take away.

You missed the part where I detaild the poor execution and some poor decisions on some of the tactics.  One can have a great strateg and completely fail on the execution or tactics.

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1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

Also, what to do with the "other" category?

not sure...how often do you need to get your mangina checked?  :unsure:  

 

 

 

 

 

 

:whistle:

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Just now, DrPhilly said:

You missed the part where I detaild the poor execution and some poor decisions on some of the tactics.  One can have a great strateg and completely fail on the execution or tactics.

It sure looks like the failure is in both strategy and execution. The herd immunity strategy is failing the people of Sweden who are dying at much higher rates than their neighbors.

So much so, one has moved troops to the border to stop infected people from coming in.

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Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

Mandate meaning by law, and with penalties via fines, yes. Anything less than a mandate is insane given what we know about this virus and how it spreads. Your policy makers over there have clearly failed you. Don't interpret that as an implication we've been any better here, but mandates are low-hanging fruits and basically no-brainers from a public policy standpoint. I can't wrap my head around people who say otherwise. 

Ok, that's a fine position to take.  It is also fine in my opinion to consider the overall bundle of measures over time for a given society and determine what tools to use and with the possibility that a general mask mandate everywhere is not the best answer in every place and every scenario.  For example, if people ignored the distancing and hand washing recommendations because they were wearing masks the game starts to change.  Those factors matter and we don't have much data that actually tells us what happens overall.  The last time I looked the official postion of the New England Journal of Medicine was that there was some evidence that widespread mask wearing is "likely" to help in practice.  That position was from back in November and I haven't looked since early December so maybe they've moved their position as I would think more data has come in since early November.

Fwiw, my belief is that masks help and that Sweden should have used the masks tool more broadly.  I use them myself as I stated.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.  Not much more for me to add.  We don't have to fully agree here.  No issue with that.

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8 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

not sure...how often do you need to get your mangina checked?  :unsure:  

 

I need to get a physical.  It's been over 5 years now.  Last time we checked I didn't have a mangina but who knows, maybe there is one now.

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10 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Sooooooooo surprised 

 

Report: Biden Admin Discovers Trump Had Zero Plans For COVID Vaccine Distribution

As they were settling into the White House on Wednesday, Biden administration officials were reportedly stunned to discover that President Joe Biden’s predecessor didn’t have a plan with regards to distributing the COVID-19 vaccine.A source told CNN on Thursday morning that the new administration will "have to build everything from scratch” thanks to former President Donald Trump’s reported lack of strategy with the vaccine rollout.

"There is nothing for us to rework,” they said.

Biden will have to start from "square one,” said another source, who called Trump’s nonexistent distribution plan "just further affirmation of complete incompetence

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution

Bears quoting even though there are other conversations going on.   Unbelievable!  Hopefully it's better starting from scratch.  

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4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Ok, that's a fine position to take.  It is also fine in my opinion to consider the overall bundle of measures over time for a given society and determine what tools to use and with the possibility that a general mask mandate everywhere is not the best answer in every place and every scenario.  For example, if people ignored the distancing and hand washing recommendations because they were wearing masks the game starts to change.  Those factors matter and we don't have much data that actually tells us what happens overall.  The last time I looked the official postion of the New England Journal of Medicine was that there was some evidence that widespread mask wearing is "likely" to help in practice.  That position was from back in November and I haven't looked since early December so maybe they've moved their position as I would think more data has come in since early November.

Fwiw, my belief is that masks help and that Sweden should have used the masks tool more broadly.  I use them myself as I stated.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion.  Not much more for me to add.  We don't have to fully agree here.  No issue with that.

The scientific evidence that masks are effective in reducing the spread is overwhelming. 

There

Is

No

Debate

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8 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

It sure looks like the failure is in both strategy and execution. The herd immunity strategy is failing the people of Sweden who are dying at much higher rates than their neighbors.

So much so, one has moved troops to the border to stop infected people from coming in.

There has been some debate on the topic but the official position was never a "herd immunity" position.  Certainly not an official govt position.  It might have been something that an official in a responsbile position took though.  There is some evidence to that effect but nothing concrete.  We will no doubt find out though as there are going to be investigations.

Had the nursing homes been protected the numbers would have been very different.  Also, as much as you want to think Norway and Denmark are just like Sweden they aren't.  There is quite a diffference.  I'm not saying you shouldn't look at the comparisons but it isn't an apples to apples type of thing.

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2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

There has been some debate on the topic but the official position was never a "herd immunity" position.  Certainly not an official govt position.  It might have been something that an official in a responsbile position took though.  There is some evidence to that effect but nothing concrete.  We will no doubt find out though as there are going to be investigations.

Had the nursing homes been protected the numbers would have been very different.  Also, as much as you want to think Norway and Denmark are just like Sweden they aren't.  There is quite a diffference.  I'm not saying you shouldn't look at the comparisons but it isn't an apples to apples type of thing.

There is success and there is failure. The Swedish COVID response is an abject failure.

No other way to describe it.

 

edit: Tell me the strategy and show me where it is working.

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15 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Sooooooooo surprised 

 

Report: Biden Admin Discovers Trump Had Zero Plans For COVID Vaccine Distribution

As they were settling into the White House on Wednesday, Biden administration officials were reportedly stunned to discover that President Joe Biden’s predecessor didn’t have a plan with regards to distributing the COVID-19 vaccine.A source told CNN on Thursday morning that the new administration will "have to build everything from scratch” thanks to former President Donald Trump’s reported lack of strategy with the vaccine rollout.

"There is nothing for us to rework,” they said.

Biden will have to start from "square one,” said another source, who called Trump’s nonexistent distribution plan "just further affirmation of complete incompetence

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/report-biden-admin-discovers-trump-had-zero-plans-for-covid-vaccine-distribution

Operation Warp Speed.  To say there was zero plan is a BS click bait title.  I remember watching about it on 60 minutes back in Nov. right after the election.  It appears to be a lot of fighting between the CDC and HHS and then states slowing things down.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/17/crash-landing-of-operation-warp-speed-459892

This was a good article on it.  Think things are being overblown but there certainly things to workout but to say there was no plan is BS.

 

Quote

 

"CDC made it very clear that they owned working with the states on the last mile of getting people vaccinated — that was their turf," said one HHS official closely involved in the vaccine project. As a result, CDC ended up playing a major role in determining how vaccines should be prioritized, making recommendations that have guided states' own strategies.

While CDC officials have complained that HHS interference has made it harder to accomplish their mission during Covid-19, department leaders say that they've only tried to push the science-focused agency to be more operational.

"In June, they wanted to send out the H1N1 playbook to the states with literally the title changed," the official added, referring to the years-old guidance that was used to fight a decade-old pandemic. "While there were plenty of good ideas in there, rubber-stamping that was not a good idea." HHS instead held back the agency's vaccine-distribution playbook until September for reviews and changes, sparking complaints within CDC that valuable time was lost, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

"The CDC needs to stop treating 'who's getting the vaccine next' like they're announcing a beauty pageant," said another HHS official, who pointed to one agency slide session from December about allocating vaccine doses. "Is that clear or is mud clearer?"

Azar himself has grown frustrated with CDC, said a person who's spoken with him, saying that the health secretary believes the agency's approach allowed states to be "overly prescriptive" in administering vaccines, slowing the process down.

 

 

Quote

 

Meanwhile, officials involved in Operation Warp Speed from its early days concede that they're dismayed by perceptions that the vaccine project is a failure. For much of 2020, they had safeguarded the effort from the political pressures that had warped the White House task force and led Azar to be shunted aside. They had gotten a nearly blank check from Trump — and convinced him, for the most part, to back off public pressure.

"For all the stories about 'political interference in Warp Speed,' how many vaccines did you see actually pushed out before the election? Zero," said one official. "We held the line."

"We had a lot of support on the protection of the integrity of Operation Warp Speed," added Brian Harrison, Azar's chief of staff.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

There is success and there is failure. The Swedish COVID response is an abject failure.

No other way to describe it.

 

edit: Tell me the strategy and show me where it is working.

I already laid it out for you. 

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13 minutes ago, rambo said:

Operation Warp Speed.  To say there was zero plan is a BS click bait title.  I remember watching about it on 60 minutes back in Nov. right after the election.  It appears to be a lot of fighting between the CDC and HHS and then states slowing things down.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/17/crash-landing-of-operation-warp-speed-459892

This was a good article on it.  Think things are being overblown but there certainly things to workout but to say there was no plan is BS.

 

 

 

As I stated earlier - they are just getting their excuse out there to mitigate the backlash in the event that they don't hit the 100 million in 100 days number that was promised.  The soy boys in here will cry BUT TRUMP for a minimum of at least another 1-2 years, however.  

new york jets cant wait GIF by NFL

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2 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

As I stated earlier - they are just getting their excuse out there to mitigate the backlash in the event that they don't hit the 100 million in 100 days number that was promised.  The soy boys in here will cry BUT TRUMP for a minimum of at least another 1-2 years, however.  

new york jets cant wait GIF by NFL

Wrong. Unlike the minimal brain cell Trump supporters like yourself, most of us are capable of questioning and criticizing the administration we voted for when they fall short.

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2 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Wrong. Unlike the minimal brain cell Trump supporters like yourself, most of us are capable of questioning and criticizing the administration we voted for when they fall short.

The grown ups are talking - don't you have some Xbox to play?

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