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Daniel Jeremiah Evaluation of the Eagles draft

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On 5/10/2021 at 7:46 AM, Portyansky said:

Not sure what's the gripe with Dickerson. It's a risk for a massive reward for a position of need. This dude stays healthy he will be a HUGE steal for us. Not holding my breath with our injury luck, but he is a lot more promising than our Jones fail.

Not sure what's the gripe with Dickerson. It's a risk for a massive reward for a position of need. This dude stays healthy he will be a HUGE steal for us. Not holding my breath with our injury luck, but he is a lot more promising than our Jones fail.

A massive reward?  At G/C?  We had serious needs in the secondary and there were good, healthy players we could have drafted in that spot.  This dude hasn't stayed healthy 4 of the last 5 seasons in college.  You expect him to do so in the NFL in a 17 game schedule?  

 

How is he a lot more promising than Jones?  Please tell me.  Did you watch them both play in college?  Or are you just floating that BS out there now, because Jones is no longer an Eagle and Dickerson is?  

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9 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

A massive reward?  At G/C?  We had serious needs in the secondary and there were good, healthy players we could have drafted in that spot.  This dude hasn't stayed healthy 4 of the last 5 seasons in college.  You expect him to do so in the NFL in a 17 game schedule?  

 

How is he a lot more promising than Jones?  Please tell me.  Did you watch them both play in college?  Or are you just floating that BS out there now, because Jones is no longer an Eagle and Dickerson is?  

Most mock drafts I saw had Dickerson going mid to late second due to the injury risk. I just don't see the value. As you say there were lots of very good, very highly rated players left on the D at that spot and at positions of extreme need.

Could even have traded down 10-12 spots and got that third back if offers were on the table.

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7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Could even have traded down 10-12 spots and got that third back if offers were on the table.

Could have taken Creed Humphrey after a bit of a trade back. 

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1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Could have taken Creed Humphrey after a bit of a trade back. 

Or maybe Dickerson is still there. A lot had him going late second due to his injury risks. 

Personally I would have taken the highest rank DB and addressed OL later. Herbig was pretty good last year. Driscoll is probably a better guard than tackle. Both were due to develop.  

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13 hours ago, weko said:

I never had any recent drafts as a B.  I've been a drafttnik for 57 years.  They've been horrible and i knew they were horrible in real time as the horror unfolded.  This year was better.  Give it a B, a B+/A-  if the OLman can get and stay healthy, a big if.  They got some nice picks in every round except the 2nd in my opinion.  Sure needed another outside CB in the 2nd/early 3rd.  A safety too.  There's one question asked of players, former players that is my favorite.  It is, "How long does it take to know if a draft pick can play at this level?"  The answer invariably is, "immediately".  It takes players two maybe 3 practices, a week at the most to determine if a kid can play at this level.  Not how good they're going to be, but can they become a player rather quickly.  It won't take long to know if this group can play.  i'm optimistic for once as i think we did well, filled needs and got good value doing it, which is how you evaluate a draft thru the prism of premium positions coming first.

I don’t really know how famous you are as a 57 years draftnick, but you’re still just one person and there has not been a consensus fail put on the Eagles drafts over the past five years on any of them. After the fact everyone surely has their opinions, but I recall people raving over the picks of Wentz, Jones, Dillard, Barnett, Goedert, and some liked Reagor over Jefferson. The most controversial pick it seems to me over the past Five years has been Hurts, but even that choice was not universally panned just confusing. Funny I recall the Jalen Mills pick (the guy everyone hates around here now) was considered a steal at the time by the Eagles, because he had like a 3rd round grade but injuries and off the field issues made him drop. The Sidney Jones pick was lauded by fans and pundits alike claiming that guy was a first rounder who slipped due to injuries. I’m not buying this B.S. revisionist history on how everyone suddenly really hated the Eagles drafts since Roseman got back. 

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11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t really know how famous you are as a 57 years draftnick, but you’re still just one person and there has not been a consensus fail put on the Eagles drafts over the past five years on any of them. After the fact everyone surely has their opinions, but I recall people raving over the picks of Wentz, Jones, Dillard, Barnett, Goedert, and some liked Reagor over Jefferson. The most controversial pick it seems to me over the past Five years has been Hurts, but even that choice was not universally panned just confusing. Funny I recall the Jalen Mills pick (the guy everyone hates around here now) was considered a steal at the time by the Eagles, because he had like a 3rd round grade but injuries and off the field issues made him drop. The Sidney Jones pick was lauded by fans and pundits alike claiming that guy was a first rounder who slipped due to injuries. I’m not buying this B.S. revisionist history on how everyone suddenly really hated the Eagles drafts since Roseman got back. 

This. There are also the constant hindsight experts who claim there is no way the Eagles should have taken Sidney Jones due to the medical risk, but also that the Eagles should have taken Metcalf despite the medical risk.

There were some who wanted Jefferson over Reagor, but there were a lot who for example wanted to trade up for Ruggs. 

There is also an unrealistic expectation on draft results. Mills was a great pick in the 7th round as it is so rare to get a regular starter at that point. Barnett compares pretty favourably to other DEs taken in that 13-18 range over the past few years. 

That's not to say that Roseman's drafts have been good - they haven't. But they weren't panned at the time and they are not as bad as people make out.

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16 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

I don’t really know how famous you are as a 57 years draftnick, but you’re still just one person and there has not been a consensus fail put on the Eagles drafts over the past five years on any of them. After the fact everyone surely has their opinions, but I recall people raving over the picks of Wentz, Jones, Dillard, Barnett, Goedert, and some liked Reagor over Jefferson. The most controversial pick it seems to me over the past Five years has been Hurts, but even that choice was not universally panned just confusing. Funny I recall the Jalen Mills pick (the guy everyone hates around here now) was considered a steal at the time by the Eagles, because he had like a 3rd round grade but injuries and off the field issues made him drop. The Sidney Jones pick was lauded by fans and pundits alike claiming that guy was a first rounder who slipped due to injuries. I’m not buying this B.S. revisionist history on how everyone suddenly really hated the Eagles drafts since Roseman got back. 

2017:  One of the worst draft classes in the league over the past decade.  Barnett was the only decent pick.  He's had injuries and underperformed, B- for him.  F for the class

The rest of the class all busted.  Jones was too thin to play effectively in the league.  Throw in a traumatic injury and his soft play and he was undraftable.  Maybe taken a chance on him in the 6th round.  Douglas is one of the slowest CBs in the league.  No Rumor has it that Joe Douglass wanted RB Cohen here and Howie told him Cohen would still be on the board for our 2nd 4th round pick.  Bears took him pick after we took Hollins.  Pumphrey.  middle school body. No speed or quickness.  No punt return ability.  laughable pick.  never played a down in the league.  This was a great RB class and we took him.  Gibson.  couldn't run routes.  WV WRs often can't.  Did nothing.  Gerry.  On of the worst LBs in the league last year.  They liked his intelligence as the son of a coach.  Just a dreadful player.  Qualls.  nothing

2018:  Got some guys who can play some.  Least bad draft

Goddard.  Baltimore made the best trade in recent memory to get our late 1.  Pick turned out to be league MVP.  They only gave us about 40 cents on the dollar to move way up.  Worst value trade of the Roseman era.  We took Goddert in the 2nd round.  Good player but we already had Ertz, which undervalued him.  Not a premium position either.  Maddox.  decent rookie year in the slot then he was one of the worst outside CBs in the league since then.  he's solely a slot CB.  maybe he can contribute again there.  Sweat.  4th round gamble with his weak knee.  So far they've gotten a fair return as a rotation piece.  he's a free agent after the season.  Do you extend him with that bad knee?  Pryor.  Decent pick as last pick in the 6th round.  4 year starter at TCU with versatility to play in and out.  he's been pretty bad but wasn't a bad choice there.  Mailata.  Best pick value wise in the class.  doesn't like playing the right side, so not sure he's an effective swing tackle, but a decent back up at LT.  Maybe he can continue to improve and start.

2019:  One of the worst draft classes in the league over the past decade.

Dillard.  Soft as Charmin form the soft Pac 12..  Only plays LT.  Eagles never interviewed him or talked to him in person.  Unbelieveable.  They had Stoutland rush a phone interview an hour before selecting him.  There's a reason no other team wanted him.  GMs get fired for decisions like this.  BUST

Sanders.  Nice 2nd round RB.  Forgot how to catch the ball last year.  Whiteside.  Spectacular bust.  No speed or route running ability.  5th round value as a red zone jump ball WR.  horrible pick.  Made by the owner?  Miller.  Bust.  6th round value taken in the 4th.  Thorson.  Bust.  Maybe the worst QB drafted in a while 5th round or higher.  Released at final cuts. I don't think any team ever signed him.  

2020:  Reagor.  mid to late 2nd round grade.  Howie evidently loved him due to crappy analytics.  Took him over Jefferson.  Fireable offense.  Hurts:  Maybe the owner's pick.  Stupid after signing our QB long term and after he had to endure Foles winning the SB. Helped Wentz lose the locker room.  Idiotic really but the kid is a great person and will be a good back up maybe low end starter.  Not his fault.  Taylor.  Embarrassing pick.  What is a developmental LB?  One who can't play.  In the 3rd round?  A joke.  Wallace.  Hopeful he can contribute but he couldn't get on the field last year even though everyone got hurt. We played street free agents over him.  Maybe he's too slow.  We'll know by the start of the season if he ca play.  Driscoll.  My favorite pick.  i think he's a center but they have him at RT.  Decent player who may improve.  Hightower.  Analytics pick.  great draft for WRs and we have these 2 guys. He can't tract a ball and his route running is suspect.  Route running/ability to separate is the number 1 skill you look for in WRs.  For some reason Howie doesn't know this after 20 years. Bradley.  back up special teamer.  Watkins.  Like the pick in the 6th round.  good gamble on a fast slot WR.  We'll see if he can play.  Wanogho & Toohill.  Howie lost both to waiver claims after trying to put on PS so no return there.

Just a very poor track record. 

2021 was his best effort although a badly injured player in the 2nd reduces the grade, especially with all the D talent still on the board and our dreadful back 7 depth chart there.   Maybe he let the personnel dept make the picks this year.

 

 

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What happened to Wentz could not have been foreseen. It just something that happens in life. People break down. It was an extremely expensive ..good pick that affected Eagles draft destiny for many years.

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50 minutes ago, weko said:

2017:  One of the worst draft classes in the league over the past decade.  Barnett was the only decent pick.  He's had injuries and underperformed, B- for him.  F for the class

The rest of the class all busted.  Jones was too thin to play effectively in the league.  Throw in a traumatic injury and his soft play and he was undraftable.  Maybe taken a chance on him in the 6th round.  Douglas is one of the slowest CBs in the league.  No Rumor has it that Joe Douglass wanted RB Cohen here and Howie told him Cohen would still be on the board for our 2nd 4th round pick.  Bears took him pick after we took Hollins.  Pumphrey.  middle school body. No speed or quickness.  No punt return ability.  laughable pick.  never played a down in the league.  This was a great RB class and we took him.  Gibson.  couldn't run routes.  WV WRs often can't.  Did nothing.  Gerry.  On of the worst LBs in the league last year.  They liked his intelligence as the son of a coach.  Just a dreadful player.  Qualls.  nothing

2018:  Got some guys who can play some.  Least bad draft

Goddard.  Baltimore made the best trade in recent memory to get our late 1.  Pick turned out to be league MVP.  They only gave us about 40 cents on the dollar to move way up.  Worst value trade of the Roseman era.  We took Goddert in the 2nd round.  Good player but we already had Ertz, which undervalued him.  Not a premium position either.  Maddox.  decent rookie year in the slot then he was one of the worst outside CBs in the league since then.  he's solely a slot CB.  maybe he can contribute again there.  Sweat.  4th round gamble with his weak knee.  So far they've gotten a fair return as a rotation piece.  he's a free agent after the season.  Do you extend him with that bad knee?  Pryor.  Decent pick as last pick in the 6th round.  4 year starter at TCU with versatility to play in and out.  he's been pretty bad but wasn't a bad choice there.  Mailata.  Best pick value wise in the class.  doesn't like playing the right side, so not sure he's an effective swing tackle, but a decent back up at LT.  Maybe he can continue to improve and start.

2019:  One of the worst draft classes in the league over the past decade.

Dillard.  Soft as Charmin form the soft Pac 12..  Only plays LT.  Eagles never interviewed him or talked to him in person.  Unbelieveable.  They had Stoutland rush a phone interview an hour before selecting him.  There's a reason no other team wanted him.  GMs get fired for decisions like this.  BUST

Sanders.  Nice 2nd round RB.  Forgot how to catch the ball last year.  Whiteside.  Spectacular bust.  No speed or route running ability.  5th round value as a red zone jump ball WR.  horrible pick.  Made by the owner?  Miller.  Bust.  6th round value taken in the 4th.  Thorson.  Bust.  Maybe the worst QB drafted in a while 5th round or higher.  Released at final cuts. I don't think any team ever signed him.  

2020:  Reagor.  mid to late 2nd round grade.  Howie evidently loved him due to crappy analytics.  Took him over Jefferson.  Fireable offense.  Hurts:  Maybe the owner's pick.  Stupid after signing our QB long term and after he had to endure Foles winning the SB. Helped Wentz lose the locker room.  Idiotic really but the kid is a great person and will be a good back up maybe low end starter.  Not his fault.  Taylor.  Embarrassing pick.  What is a developmental LB?  One who can't play.  In the 3rd round?  A joke.  Wallace.  Hopeful he can contribute but he couldn't get on the field last year even though everyone got hurt. We played street free agents over him.  Maybe he's too slow.  We'll know by the start of the season if he ca play.  Driscoll.  My favorite pick.  i think he's a center but they have him at RT.  Decent player who may improve.  Hightower.  Analytics pick.  great draft for WRs and we have these 2 guys. He can't tract a ball and his route running is suspect.  Route running/ability to separate is the number 1 skill you look for in WRs.  For some reason Howie doesn't know this after 20 years. Bradley.  back up special teamer.  Watkins.  Like the pick in the 6th round.  good gamble on a fast slot WR.  We'll see if he can play.  Wanogho & Toohill.  Howie lost both to waiver claims after trying to put on PS so no return there.

Just a very poor track record. 

2021 was his best effort although a badly injured player in the 2nd reduces the grade, especially with all the D talent still on the board and our dreadful back 7 depth chart there.   Maybe he let the personnel dept make the picks this year.

 

 

My friend this is all hindsight thought. Do you actually have any proof of this from the times of these drafts? With that being the case even if you did you’re still one person and consensus wasn’t the Eagles had a bunch of F drafts. 

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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

My friend this is all hindsight thought. Do you actually have any proof of this from the times of these drafts? With that being the case even if you did you’re still one person and consensus wasn’t the Eagles had a bunch of F drafts. 

A majority of the MB reacted exactly like the post you quoted, and plenty of sites gave bad grades for the 2017 draft the Monday after.

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32 minutes ago, downundermike said:

A majority of the MB reacted exactly like the post you quoted, and plenty of sites gave bad grades for the 2017 draft the Monday after.

Yeah and plenty gave them good grades too. The bottom line is we won’t know how good or bad these players will be until the actually start playing as such all of these draft grades are irrelevant and most importantly one so called good draft shouldn’t get Howie out of the woods from all his past mistakes. 

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2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Yeah and plenty gave them good grades too. The bottom line is we won’t know how good or bad these players will be until the actually start playing as such all of these draft grades are irrelevant and most importantly one so called good draft shouldn’t get Howie out of the woods from all his past mistakes. 

2017 draft grade is sealed.  It was an F.  You have 1 of 8 picks left, playing on his 5th year option, with no indication an extension is coming.  

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Just now, downundermike said:

2017 draft grade is sealed.  It was an F.  You have 1 of 8 picks left, playing on his 5th year option, with no indication an extension is coming.  

There was not a universal F of the 2017 draft at the time. Heck the 2016 draft is just as bad. One player left from it and that’s Seumalo. Most people were jumping for joy over that one.

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Here's a fun fact on 2018's draft:

No team has a non-specialist player drafted after Baltimore's Mark Andrews at 86 that has made a Pro-Bowl.

 

That's almost 170 guys that are low-end starters, backups, projects, or out of the league. Michael Dickerson, a Punter, is the only one to have made a Pro-Bowl.

 

That's crazy to me!

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10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

There was not a universal F of the 2017 draft at the time. Heck the 2016 draft is just as bad. One player left from it and that’s Seumalo. Most people were jumping for joy over that one.

Yup, 2018 is looking good though. Even with only 5 selections, Eagles walked away with 2 starters and 2 rotation players, with only 1 bust.

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10 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup, 2018 is looking good though. Even with only 5 selections, Eagles walked away with 2 starters and 2 rotation players, with only 1 bust.

All those guys are still on the team right now though I wonder why Matt Pryor keeps getting chances. 

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I gave Tarron Jackson a mid round 3 grade and it's a shame that Daniel didn't have enough time to grade him.  I had Devonta Smith at 7 but really he was tied at 6.  I had Landon Dickerson at 28 and I was happy to see the Eagles pick two round 1 caliber  players.  I had Kenneth Gainwell mid round 2 (don't have my list in front of me) and I thought that was a real deal steal!  Milton Williams was next near the top of round 3 which is a bit lower then the Eagles who must have had him round 2. I thought he went where he should have gone.  I had Tarron Jackson at mid round 3 ( a steal) , he might lack consistent edge speed but he does everything else really well.  I had Patrick Johnson at the bottom of round 3 and he's tweener sized but boy can he edge rush.  He's just too small to keep at DE.   I am super interested in how the Eagles play him.   I also had Zech McPhearson at the bottom of round 3.  I thought he went where he should have gone and the Eagles seem to be higher on him then I am.  I think he's a good player but who knows if he can even mirror a WR, he was always bailing out in off man.  We'll see if the Eagles play him on the outside.  I think he would maximize his value on the inside.   I had Jacoby Stevens and Marlon Tuipulotu both at mid round 5.  Tuipulotu just can't run at all, no speed to have any impact in the pass game but he should stick around in a rotation.  Stevens needs to lose weight.  Don't believe the 4.51 40 on the pro day.  That was a made up number by a homer.  He tested at 4.63 40 and he looked even slower in 2020.  He was faster at 2019 at a lighter weight but he's just a sub package guy at best in my opinion which bums me out to say as LB just doesn't have much there.

I loved the draft.  We either picked guys where they should have gone or got steals.  You could tell we followed the board this year and didn't wander off into ht/wt/speed territory like in 2020.

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On 5/13/2021 at 5:24 AM, IFB DOG said:

Here's a fun fact on 2018's draft:

No team has a non-specialist player drafted after Baltimore's Mark Andrews at 86 that has made a Pro-Bowl.

 

That's almost 170 guys that are low-end starters, backups, projects, or out of the league. Michael Dickerson, a Punter, is the only one to have made a Pro-Bowl.

 

That's crazy to me!

Wow! Yeah that's pretty wild right there. Good stuff IFB

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On 5/13/2021 at 8:59 AM, EazyEaglez said:

All those guys are still on the team right now though I wonder why Matt Pryor keeps getting chances. 

Maybe if we didn't have so many injuries last year, he wouldn't have stuck. He played alright in reserve the year before and I guess they had the memory of him playing well and hoped he could build on that last season. It didn't happen and he was a liability in every opportunity he received. The new staff won't have the 2019 memory in the back of their minds, so he'll have to be much better to make this team. 

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Zech McPhearson is such an interesting prospect. Jeremiah called him a sleeper and possible day one starter. Other evaluators had him as a 5th round or later guy with only backup potential. This team is due for one of these mid-round CBs to pay off.

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On 5/23/2021 at 11:39 AM, brkmsn said:

Maybe if we didn't have so many injuries last year, he wouldn't have stuck. He played alright in reserve the year before and I guess they had the memory of him playing well and hoped he could build on that last season. It didn't happen and he was a liability in every opportunity he received. The new staff won't have the 2019 memory in the back of their minds, so he'll have to be much better to make this team. 

Honestly I hope you’re right. First impressions from Sirianni made it almost seem like Howie was in charge of who makes the roster and not the coaches. They also still have the same offensive line coach too so he could be part of the reason Pryor kept getting chances. In Pryor’s defense I do think they moved him around way too much for a young guy. The fact they move him around so much could mean they think higher of him that the rest of us. 

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4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Honestly I hope you’re right. First impressions from Sirianni made it almost seem like Howie was in charge of who makes the roster and not the coaches. They also still have the same offensive line coach too so he could be part of the reason Pryor kept getting chances. In Pryor’s defense I do think they moved him around way too much for a young guy. The fact they move him around so much could mean they think higher of him that the rest of us. 

In 2019, Pryor filled on for Brooks twice and things went well. In 2020 things got ugly. What was the biggest factor in his drop off? In 2019, he was playing on a line that had more cohesion. With all the injuries and line combinations we deployed last year, it really exposed Pryor. The guy is probably a capable backup as long as he is playing with 4 quality starters next to him. I think you may be right about having to move him around last year as well. 

All I know is that Brooks and Johnson are both back and claim to be 100%. Kelce is here for at least 1 more year. I haven't heard about Dillard, but I assume he's fully recovered. Seumalo returned last season. Herbig, in the 2nd half of last season was playing almost as well as Brooks at RG and Mailata became an NFL starting caliber LT last year. Add Dickerson to the mix along with the addition of Le'Raven Clark ... a lot is going to have to click for Pryor to make this team. At least he has one of the NFL's best position coaches. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 4:06 AM, downundermike said:

2017 draft grade is sealed.  It was an F.  You have 1 of 8 picks left, playing on his 5th year option, with no indication an extension is coming.  

This is at least a judgment based on actual data. 

Judging this years' draft and how good the team is going to be is a lot like people discussing what next week's Powerball numbers will be.

That's true even when you don't have a brand new coaching staff and possibly a highly dysfunctional organization and almost no proven talent that isn't 2+ years past their prime.  

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