ManuManu Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 47 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: ...I've actually heard something like that from more than ESP. I think Ben Solak posted something about that with Russel Wilson's pass chart from week 1. Something about the short/intermediate passes in the middle are through too much traffic with LBs/Safeties so it's deep only in the middle. Sidelines it's mostly short with a few deep and intermediate shots. Yup. ESP might be wrong in this case, but plenty of smart people think that’s a real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLC Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 3 minutes ago, ManuManu said: Yup. ESP might be wrong in this case, but plenty of smart people think that’s a real thing. He's definitely wrong about this. The Seahawks do it because Russ is 5'10 and can't see over the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 22, 2021 Share Posted September 22, 2021 1 minute ago, austinfan said: Wasn't the pass to Smith deep middle? Thrown late but nice 50 yard spiral. If you have a single high safety, you're not throwing deep middle very often. If teams put 8 in the box and focus on the run, then play action allows TEs to get behind the LBs into open space. Let's wait a few games before we jump to conclusions? I think with each passing week the evidence overwhelmingly points to Hurts not being comfortable passing over the middle. Now is that because there’s an extra defender in the box typically a spy? Does he have trouble seeing over the line? Are there too many bodies and he’s being risk averse? I don’t know. I’d love to see more deep crossers and digs since we have been facing so much zone. Deebo caught us pretty good with one. With our speed, we’re really missing on plays like that. 3 minutes ago, RLC said: He's definitely wrong about this. The Seahawks do it because Russ is 5'10 and can't see over the middle. Does Murray also not throw over the middle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 This was the first image to pop up when I did a google image search of Kyler Murray passing chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 This is from 2019 and Murray has a good rating over the middle from 0-10 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Russell Wilson heat map of frequency of passes by location. He doesn’t throw as often over the middle, but he doesn’t exactly avoid it, at least prior to 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 32 minutes ago, austinfan said: The most efficient throw is where the defense ain't. Depends on the team you're playing each week, if they play zone but have fast LBs with cover skills, they can take away the seam pass and crossing routes. But it's rare you have LBs who can do that and also be effective against the inside run. Though the Eagles could use a power back to punish undersized LBs and safeties. If they have CBs who can play man, they leave the outside running lanes open for Hurts, I have no problem with his running if he's getting 8 yards a touch without getting hit. But if you continually not throw the ball to a certain part of the field, the defense will be able to attack where you are throwing the ball. Regardless of the coverage or what the defense is showing you you still need to throw to all parts of the field during the course of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 40 minutes ago, austinfan said: Wasn't the pass to Smith deep middle? Thrown late but nice 50 yard spiral. If you have a single high safety, you're not throwing deep middle very often. If teams put 8 in the box and focus on the run, then play action allows TEs to get behind the LBs into open space. Let's wait a few games before we jump to conclusions? Yes, there was one deep middle pass. You can count on one hand the 15+ yard throws that Hurts has made in each game. That's not going to work long term. So, if the team doesn't adjust, that's an issue. That's not a conclusion, that's a cautionary tale. Of course, I expect that the coaches are self-scouting and seeing these same trends, and are going to be looking to break them. I'd love to see them go play-action and hit the TEs behind the LBs. I welcome it. But right now, the middle of the field is a giant vacuum, they don't go there. For whatever reason, it seems to be no-man's land. And the left side of the field beyond the LOS isn't far behind in terms of targets. That needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, austinfan said: The most efficient throw is where the defense ain't. Depends on the team you're playing each week, if they play zone but have fast LBs with cover skills, they can take away the seam pass and crossing routes. But it's rare you have LBs who can do that and also be effective against the inside run. Though the Eagles could use a power back to punish undersized LBs and safeties. If they have CBs who can play man, they leave the outside running lanes open for Hurts, I have no problem with his running if he's getting 8 yards a touch without getting hit. Who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, austinfan said: Wasn't the pass to Smith deep middle? Thrown late but nice 50 yard spiral. If you have a single high safety, you're not throwing deep middle very often. If teams put 8 in the box and focus on the run, then play action allows TEs to get behind the LBs into open space. Let's wait a few games before we jump to conclusions? Yup that was the one he had a clean pocket and all day to throw yet he still ran around in the pocket and then heaved it off his back foot while still no one near him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
315Eagles Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Eagles 44 Cowgirls 6 Not sure what it is about that score but I'll go with it 🤔 Has a nice ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utebird Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said: I found my new absurd take, courtesy of ESP. Hurts not throwing intermediate or over the middle of the field is because of analytics. The Eagles, being one of the more analytical driven teams in the league, are adopting the analytics of the NBA. They are building an offense around layups and three pointers, and abandoning the mid range aspect of the game as the NBA has done. I think there was a chart showing the Seahawks taking the same approach, layups and 3 pointers. While it makes sense in basketball I don't see the logic in football as a lay up a mid range pass and a long bomb outside if the end zone are all worth the same amount of points, zero. Amid range pass has a higher chance if completion than say a 40 yard air yard pass and is worth the same amount of points zero and accomplishes a first down with less risk. The point of lay ups and 3s is layups are high % shots and the further away from the basket the % drops but still one only gets 2 points until the 3 point line which is lower % but higher reward The difference in reward for a 40 yard bomb and a 20 yard bomb isn't enough of a difference to outweigh the difference in risk. The more analytical approach would be layups and mid range passes as both have a higher % than 40 yard passes and all 3 have the same amount of value in points. Ignoring the middle part of the field leaves a lot of meat on the bone and makes defenses jobs easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 The issue with the throw was how late it was. That ball is easily 65 yards in the air despite ugly mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nivraga Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 8 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: Oh....we get it. Because: A. Work ethic is measurable B. You're qualified to measure it enough to know he has a "HOF level work ethic"? More "speaking it into existence".... Yes - aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, bpac55 said: Kermit's breakdown of Dickerson's game. Wasn't as bad as I thought he was and I'll give him a pass for being thrown in after just being activated and such. Honestly looks no worse than some of the games Seumalo had in his first games. The best thing I saw on the film was the tight end screen to Goedert. He moved well, finished his block and then he got rolled up on and popped right back up. For a guy with his injuries, it's nice to see him be able to get up right away. Small but important. What I want to see moving forward are some of the traits that made him a 1st round prospect that Howie couldn't pass up on in the 2nd. I want to see this nasty streak we heard about, an aggressive offensive lineman who finishes every block through the whistle. I want to see him use his 6-6 330 lb frame and man handle opposing players. He needs to stand out on film, not just get it done. If he truly had a 1st round grade, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't expect that. How does this guy get All22 but I pay for it with Game Pass and don’t? Anyway, decent work up on Dickerson but then go back and watch Seumalo. Absolutely had the best day of Eagles OL. Consistently winning. Good footwork and excellent and effective punch. Plus we hear from Stoutland that Ike is working with Mailata. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, BigEFly said: How does this guy get All22 but I pay for it with Game Pass and don’t? Anyway, decent work up on Dickerson but then go back and watch Seumalo. Absolutely had the best day of Eagles OL. Consistently winning. Good footwork and excellent and effective punch. Plus we hear from Stoutland that Ike is working with Mailata. I think people out of the country have access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 hours ago, downundermike said: Multiple posters have now accused board members of racism for criticizing Hurts. Not in here. If you and Swoop want to leave and rage with others outside of the Blog, have at it. But don’t bring that crap in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said: This may not age well. Makes me kind of want Mailata to terminate him on a block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Connecticut Eagle said: Let me just add... my daughter overcame her challenges and got her graduate degree Counselor Education this past May. That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing your insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nivraga Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said: No. I am not saying the guy has a "Hall of Fame Work Ethic”. Like you would even know. I do know. I don't know why you find it so hard to accept. All the HOFers I mentioned are such because of their talent - but they are regarded among the GOATs because they worked at their craft. I know this because everyone who knew/knows them personally says so. It's easy to accept that about them because of their achievements. But while we could witness their talent there is no way for us to witness their work ethic - we take it on faith that not EVERYONE would lie or exaggerate. Conversely, Allen Iverson had immense talent but was notoriously lazy with regards to practice - how do I know this - well, besides "we're talking about practice" ... EVERYONE said so. Every coach and player that's ever worked with Hurts speaks highly of his work ethic. Some people might lie or exaggerate - but not everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigEFly Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, ManuManu said: I think people out of the country have access. Well that kind of makes the NFL’s claim that it isn’t available a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, BigEFly said: Well that kind of makes the NFL’s claim that it isn’t available a lie. Maybe I’m wrong. I thought I read it somewhere. Maybe Jonny Page said it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 21 minutes ago, BigEFly said: Not in here. If you and Swoop want to leave and rage with others outside of the Blog, have at it. But don’t bring that crap in here. RTK made that accusation in the blog today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManuManu Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggles_Phan Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, downundermike said: RTK made that accusation in the blog today There's an easy way to handle that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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