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jsb235

The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

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On 6/10/2022 at 10:01 AM, jsb235 said:

Bucs yards by quarter

1st 157

2nd 47

3rd 104

4th 46

So out of the Bucs 354 yards, 261 of them were in the first and third quarters, or 75 percent, but their offense wasn't impacted by the weather. Really.  

Eagles 2nd quarter, with the wind, 84 yards.

Bucs 4th quarter, they were up 31-0 and were not needing to sustain drives any longer.

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13 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Eagles 2nd quarter, with the wind, 84 yards.

Bucs 4th quarter, they were up 31-0 and were not needing to sustain drives any longer.

You make it sound like we never had a shot! We had a future MVP candidate in a game with bad winds! Obviously he could run us to victory ...oh wait you mean a running QB doesn't work when it matters? Like what most of us have been saying?! I'm shocked 

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On 6/8/2022 at 6:15 AM, Jeep_man said:

I just have this thought that is growinggg on me; Carson Strong will be the starting QB by midseason.....

 

On 6/8/2022 at 1:01 PM, brkmsn said:

Last year's offense was a product of last year's team. There's no plan to never grow and expand. 

 

On 6/8/2022 at 12:33 PM, CouchKing said:

At mid season, do you go to Strong or Minshew first?

 

Lol - at mid-season, the Eagles will be playing well and Hurts will be having a good to very good season. Strong will be protecting his knees with an ice pack and clipboard as QB3.

 

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6 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

Lol - at mid-season, the Eagles will be playing well and Hurts will be having a good to very good season. Strong will be protecting his knees with an ice pack and clipboard as QB3.

 

If all goes well, we beat Dallas in week 6 or whatever and are in cruise control by mid season.

 

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1 hour ago, CouchKing said:

If all goes well, we beat Dallas in week 6 or whatever and are in cruise control by mid season.

 

Cruise control going into the harder part of the season with 11 games left to go?

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82645870-5F18-4EB1-91BF-D2029B20898A.thumb.jpeg.54eadf21b1b6a568a4a2c51f347f3eb6.jpegFDDAE1F2-D7B5-4AA6-8105-7DF9440BAD19.thumb.jpeg.cb64acf1481e2fad67ac9be4be6caf1b.jpeg
Just thought I’d post this to trigger the Hurts Hate Squad. Anyways get back to your Hurts whining and crying. 

 

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5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

82645870-5F18-4EB1-91BF-D2029B20898A.thumb.jpeg.54eadf21b1b6a568a4a2c51f347f3eb6.jpegFDDAE1F2-D7B5-4AA6-8105-7DF9440BAD19.thumb.jpeg.cb64acf1481e2fad67ac9be4be6caf1b.jpeg
Just thought I’d post this to trigger the Hurts Hate Squad. Anyways get back to your Hurts whining and crying. 

 

Ah yes. Definitely the same level of coaching and building blocks up to that point. Both standing at 6"5 and can see the whole field without rolling out of the pocket. both coached by father, Saban, Riley and born with a bazooka of an arm. How did we miss such a thing. Must be all that hate in our hearts. Thank you brother EazyEaglez for bringing this comparison back in our lives so we can finally accept this false equivalency as reality. 

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2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Ah yes. Definitely the same level of coaching and building blocks up to that point. Both standing at 6"5 and can see the whole field without rolling out of the pocket. both coached by father, Saban, Riley and born with a bazooka of an arm. How did we miss such a thing. Must be all that hate in our hearts. Thank you brother EazyEaglez for bringing this comparison back in our lives so we can finally accept this false equivalency as reality. 

You guys are parrots. One of you brings up height like it's absolutely relevant (forget that Wilson and Brees  are much shorter and manage to see the field just fine) ... another calls everything "false equivalency." News flash: Comparisons are not false equivalency. Conclusions based on comparisons can be, but the comparison itself is not. For example, If I said Russel Wilson is short and has won a Super Bowl, then Hurts will also win a Super Bowl, because he is considered short --- that would be false equivalency. But demonstrating that short QBs can still be good QBs by providing examples is not a fallacy. Likewise, if a person is going to argue that a QB that had accuracy problems in year two will certainly have the same problem in year 3 is ignoring examples of others that demonstrate that isn't always the case. Crying, "FALSE EQUIVALENCE!!!" at every turn is a joke when the only people drawing conclusions here are (in this case) Hurts-haters. 

p.s.   you forgot to mention "noodle arm."

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35 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

You guys are parrots. One of you brings up height like it's absolutely relevant (forget that Wilson and Brees  are much shorter and manage to see the field just fine) ... another calls everything "false equivalency." News flash: Comparisons are not false equivalency. Conclusions based on comparisons can be, but the comparison itself is not. For example, If I said Russel Wilson is short and has won a Super Bowl, then Hurts will also win a Super Bowl, because he is considered short --- that would be false equivalency. But demonstrating that short QBs can still be good QBs by providing examples is not a fallacy. Likewise, if a person is going to argue that a QB that had accuracy problems in year two will certainly have the same problem in year 3 is ignoring examples of others that demonstrate that isn't always the case. Crying, "FALSE EQUIVALENCE!!!" at every turn is a joke when the only people drawing conclusions here are (in this case) Hurts-haters. 

p.s.   you forgot to mention "noodle arm."

I love when someone reads a whole thing and then focuses on one thing lol I brought up the coaching (which wasn't equal for most of their QB careers) and skill set and traits (height and arm strength). When you bring up Russell Wilson as a height, remember he has to run a special offense where he is ad libbing constantly and so far away from his line that they look awful when the reality is he step away from the pocket to see the field. Hurts rolls right to do the same thing, but at a much less efficient level considering he cut the field in half and doesn't have the arm Wilson does to cover the ground he gives up to see the field.  Height isn't necessary, but damn if it doesn't help (Brady 6"4, Stafford 6"3, Foles 6"6, big Ben 6"5, Mahomes 6"3) doesn't help Hurts does some weird slouch while in the pocket too to make himself feel even smaller. Hurts is only an inch shorter than Rodgers (6"2) and plays like hes closer to Murray's height (5"10). Allen seems like every Hurt boy fantasy, but ignoring the obvious size and arm difference, and when brought up they bring up cartoonish like things like "noodle arm" .... He doesn't have a strong arm, and it is a "noodle arm" next to Allen. He is a "midget" compared to Allen. If Allen had received the coaching that Hurts had received through college, he problem wouldn't of had those two rough years...now that he had quality coaching all those traits have a direction. Hurts doesn't have those traits....at all. So to expect him to come anywhere near those for more than a few games a year is asking for disappointment. 

So a recap so you don't ignore anything

-Hurts isn't short, but plays a short man's game

-Hurts doesn't have the same building blocks as Allen so you should probably look somewhere else for a comparison. Hell use Murray if you need to, just don't compare arm strength or accuracy because you will be eaten alive

-Wilson isn't a good example because you ignore his deep ball ability and the depth he plays back from the line to see the field. He covers his deficiency with a strength that's not just running

 

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Numbers only tell part of the story. Look at the games hurts has thrown over 300 yards and probably half of them are in blowout losses. He's a garbage time king, that's why he's a fantasy darling. He doesn't turn the ball over very often -to his credit- he runs the ball a lot and he racks up garbage time yards and TDs. 

Hurts was also missing wide open receivers consistently all year last year, what good is aj brown going to do if hurts misses him as much as he missed Smith and Watkins last year?

Allen looked promising with no receivers, they gave him Diggs and knox and he exploded. Hurts has not shown a quarter of what Allen did AS A PASSER and he had a far better offense last year than Allen did his first two. 

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1 hour ago, devpool said:

Numbers only tell part of the story. Look at the games hurts has thrown over 300 yards and probably half of them are in blowout losses. He's a garbage time king, that's why he's a fantasy darling. He doesn't turn the ball over very often -to his credit- he runs the ball a lot and he racks up garbage time yards and TDs. 

Hurts was also missing wide open receivers consistently all year last year, what good is aj brown going to do if hurts misses him as much as he missed Smith and Watkins last year?

Allen looked promising with no receivers, they gave him Diggs and knox and he exploded. Hurts has not shown a quarter of what Allen did AS A PASSER and he had a far better offense last year than Allen did his first two. 

This post is revisionist horseshit, there was genuine debate about whether McDermott was putting his job on the line and wasting a stellar defense if he persisted with Allen after his second year, he didn't look promising he looked like he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn a lot of the time his first two years, PFF said it was clear he was struggling to grasp NFL concepts and that Daboll was trying to simplify the offense for him to smooth it out, the difference between year 2 and year 3 was night and day.

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12 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

82645870-5F18-4EB1-91BF-D2029B20898A.thumb.jpeg.54eadf21b1b6a568a4a2c51f347f3eb6.jpegFDDAE1F2-D7B5-4AA6-8105-7DF9440BAD19.thumb.jpeg.cb64acf1481e2fad67ac9be4be6caf1b.jpeg
Just thought I’d post this to trigger the Hurts Hate Squad. Anyways get back to your Hurts whining and crying. 

 

Will be interesting to compare them in year 3 post big WR additions.

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1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Will be interesting to compare them in year 3 post big WR additions.

Did Hurts beat Dallas yet?

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13 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

82645870-5F18-4EB1-91BF-D2029B20898A.thumb.jpeg.54eadf21b1b6a568a4a2c51f347f3eb6.jpegFDDAE1F2-D7B5-4AA6-8105-7DF9440BAD19.thumb.jpeg.cb64acf1481e2fad67ac9be4be6caf1b.jpeg
Just thought I’d post this to trigger the Hurts Hate Squad. Anyways get back to your Hurts whining and crying. 

 

That kind of BS doesn't trigger us. We just laugh at it the same way we laugh at the people who love Hurts.

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3 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

This post is revisionist horseshit, there was genuine debate about whether McDermott was putting his job on the line and wasting a stellar defense if he persisted with Allen after his second year, he didn't look promising he looked like he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn a lot of the time his first two years, PFF said it was clear he was struggling to grasp NFL concepts and that Daboll was trying to simplify the offense for him to smooth it out, the difference between year 2 and year 3 was night and day.

Weird, almost like his 3rd year was when Diggs showed up. Allen had the tools before Diggs showed up and that was obvious. He had a 20 point jump in quarterback rating from his first to second season as well in which he doubled his touchdowns, increased completion by 6 points (still not great %) and threw a couple less INTs.

PFF lol

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As the Hurts camp says, like it or not, he's going to be the unchallenged starting QB for 2022.

And as the anti-Hurts camp says, he's got zero excuses now.

I think both camps can agree on both of the above.  The 2022 season will play out; but the verdict on such hotly contested debates is seldom black and white.  Hurts will improve.  He's not going to have a Josh Allen-like year 3, no way.  His passing metrics will inch closer to average.  That passing productivity combined with his running ability will produce combined numbers that start to look impressive.  That will make the Hurts camp say he's good enough to be the guy for the future.  The still below average passing will cause the haters to still hate.

 

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What if he doesn't have a weak arm, nd changing his mechanics shows the actual arm strength?

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55 minutes ago, devpool said:

Weird, almost like his 3rd year was when Diggs showed up. Allen had the tools before Diggs showed up and that was obvious. He had a 20 point jump in quarterback rating from his first to second season as well in which he doubled his touchdowns, increased completion by 6 points (still not great %) and threw a couple less INTs.

PFF lol

This is too much context

15 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

As the Hurts camp says, like it or not, he's going to be the unchallenged starting QB for 2022.

And as the anti-Hurts camp says, he's got zero excuses now.

I think both camps can agree on both of the above.  The 2022 season will play out; but the verdict on such hotly contested debates is seldom black and white.  Hurts will improve.  He's not going to have a Josh Allen-like year 3, no way.  His passing metrics will inch closer to average.  That passing productivity combined with his running ability will produce combined numbers that start to look impressive.  That will make the Hurts camp say he's good enough to be the guy for the future.  The still below average passing will cause the haters to still hate.

 

That's why I always ask what numbers would be enough. If he gets 35 total touchdowns but we only win 8 games, the improvement is just junk time stats again. If he only gets to 28 total, but we win 13....who can argue with that? It would be the Alex Smith situation without a Mahomes sitting in the wings 

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7 hours ago, brkmsn said:

You guys are parrots. One of you brings up height like it's absolutely relevant (forget that Wilson and Brees  are much shorter and manage to see the field just fine) ... another calls everything "false equivalency." News flash: Comparisons are not false equivalency. Conclusions based on comparisons can be, but the comparison itself is not. For example, If I said Russel Wilson is short and has won a Super Bowl, then Hurts will also win a Super Bowl, because he is considered short --- that would be false equivalency. But demonstrating that short QBs can still be good QBs by providing examples is not a fallacy. Likewise, if a person is going to argue that a QB that had accuracy problems in year two will certainly have the same problem in year 3 is ignoring examples of others that demonstrate that isn't always the case. Crying, "FALSE EQUIVALENCE!!!" at every turn is a joke when the only people drawing conclusions here are (in this case) Hurts-haters. 

p.s.   you forgot to mention "noodle arm."

now list all the short, weak-armed qbs that failed and lets compare weight of evidence...

8 minutes ago, matchew88 said:

What if he doesn't have a weak arm, nd changing his mechanics shows the actual arm strength?

what if my aunt had balls?

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4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

This is too much context

That's why I always ask what numbers would be enough. If he gets 35 total touchdowns but we only win 8 games, the improvement is just junk time stats again. If he only gets to 28 total, but we win 13....who can argue with that? It would be the Alex Smith situation without a Mahomes sitting in the wings 

I want Hurts to become a good enough passer that we can move beyond the "total" stats and the debate that running yards are just as good as passing yards.

He's a passer; his job is to pass.  Running is gravy, not the base of the whole meal.  If his passing productivity can't hang with real NFL starting QBs, then he shouldn't be one himself.

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8 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

now list all the short, weak-armed qbs that failed and lets compare weight of evidence...

what if my aunt had balls?

According to the left, she'd still be your aunt and you'd be a transphobe

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11 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I want Hurts to become a good enough passer that we can move beyond the "total" stats and the debate that running yards are just as good as passing yards.

He's a passer; his job is to pass.  Running is gravy, not the base of the whole meal.  If his passing productivity can't hang with real NFL starting QBs, then he shouldn't be one himself.

I agree with all this. I'd rather a dual threat means his deep ball is as dangerous as his short passes and nothing to do with his legs. 

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1 hour ago, matchew88 said:

What if he doesn't have a weak arm, nd changing his mechanics shows the actual arm strength?

The point of mechanics is not just use the arm to throw the football. It's to utilize the body as a fulcrum to generate torque, spin and loft on a football. Mechanics will absolutely extend his range. Hence why, when he did use his mechanics late last year, you saw him throw it 60 yards in the air. Part of his problem with inconsistency last year was that sometimes he set his base and used his mechanics and at other times he just tried to muscle it in there and it fell short.

It's hard to be accurate when the way you throw the football is changing from throw to throw. That's why mechanics and reproducing the same motions are important throw to throw.

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1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

As the Hurts camp says, like it or not, he's going to be the unchallenged starting QB for 2022.

And as the anti-Hurts camp says, he's got zero excuses now.

I think both camps can agree on both of the above.  The 2022 season will play out; but the verdict on such hotly contested debates is seldom black and white.  Hurts will improve.  He's not going to have a Josh Allen-like year 3, no way.  His passing metrics will inch closer to average.  That passing productivity combined with his running ability will produce combined numbers that start to look impressive.  That will make the Hurts camp say he's good enough to be the guy for the future.  The still below average passing will cause the haters to still hate.

 

This is a sensible post. 

I’m probably viewed as being in the Hurts camp and as you say I expect him to improve and put up some good numbers in what should be a loaded offense. 

But that won’t mean I’ll think he’s the guy for the future. 

I’ve said all along I think he was better than a lot of people give him credit for last year. I also expected the Eagles to give him another year as the clear starter and they have.

But he needs to show some material improvement in certain areas (reads, deep ball, anticipation) for me to think he’s the guy going forward.

 

 


 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

I love when someone reads a whole thing and then focuses on one thing lol I brought up the coaching (which wasn't equal for most of their QB careers) and skill set and traits (height and arm strength). When you bring up Russell Wilson as a height, remember he has to run a special offense where he is ad libbing constantly and so far away from his line that they look awful when the reality is he step away from the pocket to see the field. Hurts rolls right to do the same thing, but at a much less efficient level considering he cut the field in half and doesn't have the arm Wilson does to cover the ground he gives up to see the field.  Height isn't necessary, but damn if it doesn't help (Brady 6"4, Stafford 6"3, Foles 6"6, big Ben 6"5, Mahomes 6"3) doesn't help Hurts does some weird slouch while in the pocket too to make himself feel even smaller. Hurts is only an inch shorter than Rodgers (6"2) and plays like hes closer to Murray's height (5"10). Allen seems like every Hurt boy fantasy, but ignoring the obvious size and arm difference, and when brought up they bring up cartoonish like things like "noodle arm" .... He doesn't have a strong arm, and it is a "noodle arm" next to Allen. He is a "midget" compared to Allen. If Allen had received the coaching that Hurts had received through college, he problem wouldn't of had those two rough years...now that he had quality coaching all those traits have a direction. Hurts doesn't have those traits....at all. So to expect him to come anywhere near those for more than a few games a year is asking for disappointment. 

So a recap so you don't ignore anything

-Hurts isn't short, but plays a short man's game

-Hurts doesn't have the same building blocks as Allen so you should probably look somewhere else for a comparison. Hell use Murray if you need to, just don't compare arm strength or accuracy because you will be eaten alive

-Wilson isn't a good example because you ignore his deep ball ability and the depth he plays back from the line to see the field. He covers his deficiency with a strength that's not just running

 

Whether you like it or not, people can compare any player to any other player they want. The article that has you all bent out of shape merely poses the question, "Will Hurts make a big jump in year 3 like another player did when his team also traded for a legit, experienced productive WR?" OH, THE GALL!!! How could they "compare" a 6'5" QB with God's gift to arm strength with a 6'1" Tim Tebow wannabe? For shame! For shame! You guys crack me up. Since I'll compare whomever the heck I want, I'll use Wilson here. Wilson is very good at deep passes. Not because he has such a big arm, but because he gets the ball out on time and places it better than a lot of other professional QBs (the deep ball that is). His arm strength is no better than Hurts', though. Wentz was 6'5" and he played almost entirely from the shotgun. I'm guessing it had absolutely nothing to do with his height. Mahomes is 6'3" and still does jump passes. QBs that "jump pass" (including Hurts) don't have a good reason to ever do this. It's bad mechanics that leads to weaker, less accurate passes. 

Hurts is a young QB that has a lot of areas to improve --- most noticeably his decision making and processing speed. Some will argue that those things aren't coachable or fixable, but I disagree. Young players come into the NFL and they need to improve in every aspect of the game, but they can only really focus on a few things at a time. Once they get one thing down, they can move on to another area. As they gain experience, the game eventually "slows down" to them. It's reasonable to expect any young player to experience this in their first few seasons. Does that guarantee that Hurts will make good decisions as a result? No, it doesn't. That's something he has to show us or prove to us, to his teammates, and coaches. 

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