On 12/1/2023 at 9:12 AM, Procus said:

Are  you not satisfied with the Eagles record over the past few years?

It's not that simple.....I think Howie has done a very good job at building the roster and Sirianni has molded it into a super bowl contender.  

But I think the eagles defense has suffered not having very good linebackers over the years.  Last year TJ Edwards and Kyzir White did a good job and where allowed to walk in free agency.  Edwards is having a very good year in chicago and he is better than anything the eagles have on the roster.

I think Nakobe Dean can be very good, but he's been banged up and on IR.  i just think they need to invest in some athletic linebackers in the draft that can stabilize the position and be better at neutralizing opposing TEs and RBs.

9 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

It's not that simple.....I think Howie has done a very good job at building the roster and Sirianni has molded it into a super bowl contender.  

But I think the eagles defense has suffered not having very good linebackers over the years.  Last year TJ Edwards and Kyzir White did a good job and where allowed to walk in free agency.  Edwards is having a very good year in chicago and he is better than anything the eagles have on the roster.

I think Nakobe Dean can be very good, but he's been banged up and on IR.  i just think they need to invest in some athletic linebackers in the draft that can stabilize the position and be better at neutralizing opposing TEs and RBs.

What you're not getting is that if the Birds beef up the LB position and throw some money there - some other area of the team will suffer.  Cap dictates this.

3 minutes ago, Procus said:

What you're not getting is that if the Birds beef up the LB position and throw some money there - some other area of the team will suffer.  Cap dictates this.

Oh, I get that.....that's why I'd like to see some earlier draft picks at the LB position.  Tie them up for 4-5 years on a rookie contract instead of free agent contracts.  

I think with all the things Howie does with the salary cap, he could somehow afford a top LB without sacrificing much somewhere else.

On 12/6/2023 at 2:29 PM, birdman#12 said:

Oh, I get that.....that's why I'd like to see some earlier draft picks at the LB position.  Tie them up for 4-5 years on a rookie contract instead of free agent contracts.  

I think with all the things Howie does with the salary cap, he could somehow afford a top LB without sacrificing much somewhere else.

Edwards went cheap too. We could’ve afforded him but apparently he wanted to go to Chicago. I really liked his game. 

I think Howie views LB’s, RB’s and Safeties the same way. He’s doesn’t view them as guys he will resign at the end of their rookie deal so he’s going to wait until to the mid to lower rounds to draft one. I doubt he spends a high draft pick on one next year nor should he. This team has needs at RT, DE and CB which are priority positions. 

2 hours ago, Road to Victory said:

Edwards went cheap too. We could’ve afforded him but apparently he wanted to go to Chicago. I really liked his game. 

I think Howie views LB’s, RB’s and Safeties the same way. He’s doesn’t view them as guys he will resign at the end of their rookie deal so he’s going to wait until to the mid to lower rounds to draft one. I doubt he spends a high draft pick on one next year nor should he. This team has needs at RT, DE and CB which are priority positions. 

It's not just Howie. It's the way the NFL is trending. Off-ball LBs aren't valued as much as they were in the past. Few get selected in the 1st round anymore. Even Parsons fell to the 12th pick, despite college production and amazing physical abilities. Had he just been labeled an edge rusher, he might have been the 1st or 2nd player taken. But as an off ball LB, teams just weren't willing to part with a high pick. First it happened to RBs, now it's happening to LBs

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's not just Howie. It's the way the NFL is trending. Off-ball LBs aren't valued as much as they were in the past. Few get selected in the 1st round anymore. Even Parsons fell to the 12th pick, despite college production and amazing physical abilities. Had he just been labeled an edge rusher, he might have been the 1st or 2nd player taken. But as an off ball LB, teams just weren't willing to part with a high pick. First it happened to RBs, now it's happening to LBs

Trend can be stupid trends…one most use logic.

12 hours ago, D.WATSfromda757 said:

Trend can be stupid trends…one most use logic.

Every team prioritizes somewhere.  Money is not an unlimited resource for these organizations.  Spending on the lines and QBs has served us well over the years.  This year the LBs have not worked out and the CBs have regressed, but lets see the whole body of work before we judge the strategy. 

32 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Every team prioritizes somewhere.  Money is not an unlimited resource for these organizations.  Spending on the lines and QBs has served us well over the years.  This year the LBs have not worked out and the CBs have regressed, but lets see the whole body of work before we judge the strategy. 

Let’s not overlook that they have paid their CBs a lot of money. And last year those CBs were really really good. This year it seems age has caught up with them. Bradberry has regressed big time and I think Slay has taken a bit of a step back.

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Let’s not overlook that they have paid their CBs a lot of money. And last year those CBs were really really good. This year it seems age has caught up with them. Bradberry has regressed big time and I think Slay has taken a bit of a step back.

They always invest in D line and corners.  LB and safety are not the priority, they are filled with band aid free agents, trades and mid to late round (or undrafted) draft picks.

They haven't drafted a LB in round 1 since 1979. 

Recent LBs taken in the 2nd round:

• 2012: Mychal Kendricks
• 2005: Matt McCoy
• 2001: Quinton Caver

2020: put aside taking Reagor over Jefferson at WR, a lot of fans also wanted LB Patrick Queen who was on the board.

At safety, they haven't taken one in the 1st round since 1969.  The last time they took safeties in the 2nd round:  2010 Nate Allen then in 2011 Jaiquawn Jarrett.  It's usually 3rd round or later.

Prioritizing D line and Corner is fine, but you also have to sometimes invest.  Even at corner, they've mostly relied on free agents.  The 2017 draft with a 2nd and 3rd round corner didn't work out.  The last time they drafted a corner in the 1st round was 2001 with Lito Sheppard.  Before that it was 1990.  So they don't even invest in corner high very much.

 

17 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Prioritizing D line and Corner is fine, but you also have to sometimes invest.  Even at corner, they've mostly relied on free agents.  The 2017 draft with a 2nd and 3rd round corner didn't work out.  The last time they drafted a corner in the 1st round was 2001 with Lito Sheppard.  Before that it was 1990.  So they don't even invest in corner high very much.

Oh I agree bud. One really good LB and one really good S on this team probably covers a lot and makes a real difference. I like how they build a roster but I agree sometimes you’ve got to tweak slightly. And there’s no reason they can’t do that whilst prioritising QB, lines and CB. I mean had they taken Queen over Reagor they could have still had the pieces they drafted, traded for and signed.

On 12/6/2023 at 6:59 AM, time2rock said:

He has never said he doesn't value LB or any other position.  

Actions speak louder than words.

Or we maybe just suck at drafting LBs. 

Dre Greenlaw was a fifth round pick.

4 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

Or we maybe just suck at drafting LBs. 

Dre Greenlaw was a fifth round pick.

They draft guys who will knock your head off while the Eagles go for speed guys who get tossed around 

2 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

They draft guys who will knock your head off while the Eagles go for speed guys who get tossed around 

Yeah as a side topic it seems like success in the NFL is pretty much determined by not overpaying for bad talent and underpaying hidden gems. And that all comes from drafting.

18 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

Or we maybe just suck at drafting LBs. 

Dre Greenlaw was a fifth round pick.

There are always examples of players taken in later rounds that are hidden gems.  The success rate goes down each round.  The fact is they haven't prioritized the best assets in either draft or free agency money on LBs.  And it shows.

Yes, you can also argue they don't scout them well since when they do take them in mid to late rounds they don't work out.  Both things can be true.  So either scout better or prioritize the higher round picks that are more likely to hit.  Or just sign really quality LBs in free agency.  Something.  

I keep looking at that missed Morrow tackle on Deebo....its probably the worst tackle ive ever seen. 

Sure the whole D was atrocious but at least the bend dont break was still kind of working. That missed tackle broke the dam. Talk about losing your job over one bad tackle. Feel sorry for Morrow but im sure Howie picked up the phone right after he saw that.

12 minutes ago, opa-opa said:

I keep looking at that missed Morrow tackle on Deebo....its probably the worst tackle ive ever seen. 

Sure the whole D was atrocious but at least the bend dont break was still kind of working. That missed tackle broke the dam. Talk about losing your job over one bad tackle. Feel sorry for Morrow but im sure Howie picked up the phone right after he saw that.

His coverage on CMC was comical too. And Morrow’s strength is supposed to be his coverage ability…

6 hours ago, NOTW said:

There are always examples of players taken in later rounds that are hidden gems.  The success rate goes down each round.  The fact is they haven't prioritized the best assets in either draft or free agency money on LBs.  And it shows.

Yes, you can also argue they don't scout them well since when they do take them in mid to late rounds they don't work out.  Both things can be true.  So either scout better or prioritize the higher round picks that are more likely to hit.  Or just sign really quality LBs in free agency.  Something.  

I think when you look at Nate Gerry (round 5), that was a conversion / hybrid project. He wasn't the most physically gifted to start with and it didn't pan out. Davion Taylor (round 3) was clearly a boom or bust prospect. He was physically gifted, but extremely raw and lacking experience. TJ Edwards was an URFA and was given time to develop in the NFL. He was a true, experienced LB that lacked great athletic traits, but had a good football IQ. He'd probably still be here if he wasn't a die-hard Bears fan. Dean (3rd round) is another true, experienced LB with a high football IQ. He actually has great athletic traits (the people claiming he's slow and unathletic are ignorant). It sucks that Dean has had the foot injury this season and missed so much time, but once again, the people claiming he's injury prone are ignorant as he missed no games with injuries all through college or last season. We really missed Dean against a team like the whiners. While his coverage overall hasn't been as good as experienced players like Morrow and Cunningham, his tackling and quickness were reliable. 

The people that have already given up on Dean crack me up. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I think when you look at Nate Gerry (round 5), that was a conversion / hybrid project. He wasn't the most physically gifted to start with and it didn't pan out. Davion Taylor (round 3) was clearly a boom or bust prospect. He was physically gifted, but extremely raw and lacking experience. TJ Edwards was an URFA and was given time to develop in the NFL. He was a true, experienced LB that lacked great athletic traits, but had a good football IQ. He'd probably still be here if he wasn't a die-hard Bears fan. Dean (3rd round) is another true, experienced LB with a high football IQ. He actually has great athletic traits (the people claiming he's slow and unathletic are ignorant). It sucks that Dean has had the foot injury this season and missed so much time, but once again, the people claiming he's injury prone are ignorant as he missed no games with injuries all through college or last season. We really missed Dean against a team like the whiners. While his coverage overall hasn't been as good as experienced players like Morrow and Cunningham, his tackling and quickness were reliable. 

The people that have already given up on Dean crack me up. 

Need him back asap. The more players we have out there that aren't clueless the better 

18 hours ago, The Norseman said:

Every team prioritizes somewhere.  Money is not an unlimited resource for these organizations.  Spending on the lines and QBs has served us well over the years.  This year the LBs have not worked out and the CBs have regressed, but lets see the whole body of work before we judge the strategy. 

They new who they weren’t gonna pay…and who would be missing.

22 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Oh I agree bud. One really good LB and one really good S on this team probably covers a lot and makes a real difference. I like how they build a roster but I agree sometimes you’ve got to tweak slightly. And there’s no reason they can’t do that whilst prioritising QB, lines and CB. I mean had they taken Queen over Reagor they could have still had the pieces they drafted, traded for and signed.

Queen? 

Missing tackles on a regular basis in Baltimore is one thing, doing that in Philadelphia is a career ender. Queen simply isn't critiqued by Eagles fans the way he would be if he played here. Let's not pretend that people would still be rejoicing about that pick. He's been an average LB. We get average LBs on 1-year prove it deals every year. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Queen? 

Missing tackles on a regular basis in Baltimore is one thing, doing that in Philadelphia is a career ender. Queen simply isn't critiqued by Eagles fans the way he would be if he played here. Let's not pretend that people would still be rejoicing about that pick. He's been an average LB. We get average LBs on 1-year prove it deals every year. 

That is very true what you say about Queen.  Unfortunately the Eagles LBs as a whole haven't even been average this year. 

I really don’t get the hype here. Guys don’t get waived at this point in the season or be on the streets if they are any good.

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Queen? 

Missing tackles on a regular basis in Baltimore is one thing, doing that in Philadelphia is a career ender. Queen simply isn't critiqued by Eagles fans the way he would be if he played here. Let's not pretend that people would still be rejoicing about that pick. He's been an average LB. We get average LBs on 1-year prove it deals every year. 

Ok Queen may be a specifically bad example but I was trying to make the point that we could have built a roster pretty much identical to the one we had just by occasionally going earlier for a LB or S.

1 hour ago, xxeaglesfanxx said:

I really don’t get the hype here. Guys don’t get waived at this point in the season or be on the streets if they are any good.

Guys get waived when teams need to get out of a contract. When they extended Leonard, they made him the highest paid off ball LB, but teams have been devaluing that position the last few years. Compound that with the time he missed from the injury and the fact that full recovery probably takes a couple years and also factor in player age, the colts needed to get out of that contract ASAP. 

The way I see it, most of the recovery is probably complete. If he remains healthy this season, he'll probably be back to 100% physically next season. I'm reminded of the time we spent a couple seasons trying to replace Trotter at MLB only to have the inferior players be a liability the whole time. Trotter eventually returned as damaged goods (Knee) but was still so much better than the scrubs that failed to replace him, the difference was huge. Leonard is still at an age he can return to form. I think Morrow, with the exception of last week, has played above expectations and he was never really a true LB as much as just a hybrid and he never should be your MLB. I expect Leonard, even if not quite the player he was earlier, will be noticeably more competent and we didn't have to give up anything to get him or pay much to have him.