16 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

 

Spoiler

 

Well, I think Alexander Haig might have something to say about that! 

General Haig aside though, like I mentioned, Ford was Vice President (from December '73 to August '74 when he became President) . Not Speaker of the House. 

8 minutes ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

 He wasn't the 40th Vice President of the United States?  

 

Ford was a Republican. The Speaker of the House at that time was Carl Albert, a Democrat. 

Gerald Ford was the first (and so far only) person to ever become President of the United States without being elected as President or Vice President, he was appointed as Vice President by Nixon after Agnew resigned. 

Ok, that makes sense.  Nixon picked him to be VP after Agnew resigned.

1 minute ago, Dave Moss said:

Ok, that makes sense.  Nixon picked him to be VP after Agnew resigned.

Yeah, and if memory serves correctly (from study, not from back in the day since I was only 4 when he became VP), there was quite a bit of negotiating with the Democratic controlled congress in order to get Ford confirmed (which is required for an appointed VP). Had they not confirmed him, then Democrat Speaker of the House Carl Albert would have become acting President when Nixon resigned in 74.

I wonder if he'd have resigned if that were to be the case or if he'd have fought the impeachment and if that was the case (that Albert would become acting President), would the Republicans who were ready to impeach and remove Nixon have been ready to do those things or would they have allowed Nixon to ride out the storm and stay in office? 

Interesting to think about. 

Why does the new VP pick have to get confirmed?  Is that a 12th Amendment thing?

24 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Why does the new VP pick have to get confirmed?  Is that a 12th Amendment thing?

It's a 25th Amendment thing. 

Quote

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-constitution/amendments/amendment-xxv#:~:text=Whenever there is a vacancy,of both Houses of Congress.

Section 2

Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

 

Seems unlikely that Joe will step down now.

There's growing calls to invoke the 25th amendment from the Republicans (I don't know if any Dems have joined in on the movement). Remove Biden, install Harris. 

Without getting into 'right vs. left' arguments, what's the strategy there? Best interest of the country? Better to have someone with full cognitive ability than to have someone with limited cognitive ability?  Potentially force a vote in both chambers on removal and make each side put their cards on the table for all to see? 

If the 25th Amendment is invoked, Biden will either accept it and go away or deny that he's unable to be President at which point, the House and Senate will have to decide to either remove him or let him remain. 

Is that the strategy? Force the vote?

16 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

Yeah, and if memory serves correctly (from study, not from back in the day since I was only 4 when he became VP), there was quite a bit of negotiating with the Democratic controlled congress in order to get Ford confirmed (which is required for an appointed VP). Had they not confirmed him, then Democrat Speaker of the House Carl Albert would have become acting President when Nixon resigned in 74.

I wonder if he'd have resigned if that were to be the case or if he'd have fought the impeachment and if that was the case (that Albert would become acting President), would the Republicans who were ready to impeach and remove Nixon have been ready to do those things or would they have allowed Nixon to ride out the storm and stay in office? 

Interesting to think about. 

What's really interesting is how Agnew was forced out before Nixon.  Could you imagine a president Agnew?  I don't think it would have gone over well after Watergate.  Ford handled that about as gracefully as could be expected.

11 hours ago, Toastrel said:

Seems unlikely that Joe will step down now.

The matter is fluid.  The incumbency is a big advantage in a presidential election.  Biden's health combined with political expediency might change that.

Just now, Procus said:

The matter is fluid.

3 minutes ago, Procus said:

What's really interesting is how Agnew was forced out before Nixon.  Could you imagine a president Agnew?  I don't think it would have gone over well after Watergate.  Ford handled that about as gracefully as could be expected.

What I find interesting is, let's say that the Democrats refused to confirm Ford and they left the office vacant. Fast forward about a year when Watergate was blowing up. Would Republicans have gone to Nixon to advise him to resign because the votes to remove him were "there"? Would there have been Republicans willing to remove him if it meant the Democrat Speaker of the House would become acting President until 1976? I'm thinking the answer is likely 'no'.

So had the Democrats refused to confirm Ford as VP, Nixon likely serves out his full second term. That means that Ford isn't the sitting President in the 76 election. Would the party stand behind him at the convention or would Reagan get the nomination and would Reagan beat Carter in the General election in 76? Would it even be Carter running for the Democrats? 

Suppose there's no VP and the Speaker becomes President, does he run for election in 76?

Lots of 'what if's' there to ponder. 

1 minute ago, VaBeach_Eagle said:

What I find interesting is, let's say that the Democrats refused to confirm Ford and they left the office vacant. Fast forward about a year when Watergate was blowing up. Would Republicans have gone to Nixon to advise him to resign because the votes to remove him were "there"? Would there have been Republicans willing to remove him if it meant the Democrat Speaker of the House would become acting President until 1976? I'm thinking the answer is likely 'no'.

So had the Democrats refused to confirm Ford as VP, Nixon likely serves out his full second term. That means that Ford isn't the sitting President in the 76 election. Would the party stand behind him at the convention or would Reagan get the nomination and would Reagan beat Carter in the General election in 76? Would it even be Carter running for the Democrats? 

Suppose there's no VP and the Speaker becomes President, does he run for election in 76?

Lots of 'what if's' there to ponder. 

This era right now has a lot of the type of turmoil you saw in the 60's and 70's.  You really do see history repeating itself in its own way.

45 minutes ago, Procus said:

The matter is fluid.  The incumbency is a big advantage in a presidential election.  Biden's health combined with political expediency might change that.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that my earlier prediction of Joe not stepping down, was 100% wrong.

Here's an article on what happens if a VP becomes President, which we discussed earlier.

Quote

Here's how Kamala Harris' successor as vice president would be chosen if President Biden steps down

The 25th Amendment outlines the steps that must be taken to fill a vacant vice presidency

There is a constitutional process of succession that would take effect if President Biden were to step down from his role as commander in chief. 

Speculation over whether Biden can finish the remainder of his current term heightened after he suddenly withdrew from the 2024 presidential race. If the president did decide to resign before the end of his term, several steps would be taken to form a new cabinet.

According to Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, the vice president becomes president if the president is unable to discharge duties due to death, resignation, removal from office or other reasons. So, if Biden were to step down as president today, Vice President Kamala Harris would be sworn in as the 47th president and serve out the remainder of his term.

If a vice president is promoted to president, the vice presidency is vacated.

President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris on the Truman Balcony of the White House in Washington, D.C., July 4, 2024.  (Tierney L. Cross)

House Speaker Mike Johnson is third in line to the presidency, but he would not step into the position if Harris became president. The only case where the sitting speaker of the House becomes president would be if both the president and vice president died or resigned at the same time.

When the vice president assumes the role of president, the new president is responsible for appointing a new vice president, as stated in Section 2 of the 25th Amendment. If this scenario were to unfold today, Harris would become president and nominate a vice president.

However, the pick needs to first be approved by a majority in both chambers of Congress, which has a party split with Republicans enjoying a majority in the House and Democrats leading in the Senate.

Both the House and the Senate would vote on the approval of the vice president. 

The House held up all legislative business for nearly two weeks to vote on a new speaker of the House in 2023 after Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., introduced a motion to vacate Speaker Kevin McCarthy, R–Calif.

Republican lawmakers have also proposed an alternative scenario to dismiss the current commander in chief.

If the vice president and Cabinet members believe the sitting president is unable to serve, they can invoke the 25th Amendment and oust him from the postilion. 

In this case, the vice president would become acting president, but the president can still claim an ability to serve. A two-thirds vote by Congress would be necessary to oust the president in that case. 

 

The cabinet is full of Biden loyalists. Please stop with your fantasies of having him removed via the 25th amendment. He stepped aside. Let the man finish out his last 6 months with some dignity. People like Pete Buddigedge and Tony Blinkin aren't going to remove him. They love the man.