July 30, 20241 yr 51 minutes ago, The Norseman said: You can debate the reason, but the fact is that the white working class seems to be galvanized behind Trump. That happened after Obama Yes, the bigots got behind Trump, the rest of us moved on.
July 30, 20241 yr 48 minutes ago, The Norseman said: I already did. And I don't know how this is even in question. The Democrats historically had a healthy portion of the white working class due to the union vote. There has now been a huge shift in that demographic towards Trump. Biden, the union president, was having a hard time even getting their support prior to dropping out- not to mention losing the fire and police unions a few years ago. You can debate the reason, but the fact is that the white working class seems to be galvanized behind Trump. That happened after Obama. Not really mate, not really. It really happened since Bill Clinton and NAFTA. That's when Democrats started a decades long practice of shaking hands with union leaders only to stab unions in the back once in office. Why did they keep falling for it? Because Republicans were in their "libertarian" phase and eliminating unions was a central pillar. Then comes along Trump, a plain speaking buffon Republican who says he's going to help them and stokes them racism and victimization to boot. His first campaign was all about repealing NAFTA (he modified slightly which Hillary was going to do anyways), slapped a trade war with China and subsidized a bunch of farming. Obama was a part of this, blaming him as the culprit is hogwash, Democrats became globalists a long tome before him.
July 30, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: what does union support mean for a candidate beyond financial? it's not like all the union members vote the same way. TBH, no union should be able to offer support. financially or otherwise. Im not a big advocate of unions, but as long as companies are allowed to support candidates, unions they be able to as well.
July 30, 20241 yr 14 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: what does union support mean for a candidate beyond financial? it's not like all the union members vote the same way. TBH, no union should be able to offer support. financially or otherwise. In the case of police unions Im sure they love the idea of being immune from prosecution as Trump suggests.
July 30, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: Yes, the bigots got behind Trump, the rest of us moved on. Uh huh, so only white working class people are bigots. I see. What a simple minded person you are
July 30, 20241 yr For all you Kamala supporters out there, please educate us with a list of her accomplishments
July 30, 20241 yr Just now, Procus said: For all you Kamala supporters out there, please educate us with a list of her accomplishments Ted Cruz already did. Sign me up for legal weed and expanded voting!
July 30, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, The Norseman said: Hard to know what the cause of the flat line and decline was. I'd argue that much of it it was likely global uncertainty with the pandemic which was raging in China at that time. Biden has also benefited from a boost in foreign investment due in part to the Trump tax cuts. As you say, most of Biden's plans have not been implemented yet. All that being said, you are ignoring the greater point...the difference between a 200k manufacturing jobs increase and and 800k increase is monumental. My point was only that Biden has grossly inflated his jobs number and that many in here buy it hook line and sinker. It's funny that any decline under Biden = "Biden policies suck" while any decline under Trump = "we need to be circumspect here and not jump to conclusions"
July 30, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, Gannan said: Ted Cruz already did. Sign me up for legal weed and expanded voting! Well I guess THAT qualifies her to be president. How about other less important issues - like the economy, foreign policy and affairs - you know
July 30, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: It's funny that any decline under Biden = "Biden policies suck" while any decline under Trump = "we need to be circumspect here and not jump to conclusions" Just don't call him a Trump Supporter though. He's totally not that at all.
July 30, 20241 yr 47 minutes ago, Gannan said: I would argue it is for cultural reasons and not economic ones. Huge part of it for sure. But I'm talking about why they were ripe to engage in the first place. They felt neglected and unseen. All political movements start with a grievance.
July 30, 20241 yr 3 minutes ago, Procus said: Well I guess THAT qualifies her to be president. How about other less important issues - like the economy, foreign policy and affairs - you know repugs elected a reality tv host a few years ago & you're worried about a vice president being qualified?
July 30, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, Procus said: Uh huh, so only white working class people are bigots. I see. What a simple minded person you are Not even close to what I said. I once was a working class bigot. I still work and live among them. I’m descended from them. I’m not saying that I am now better, or smarter than them, but because I’m not closed and simple minded, is the reason I no longer agree with or believe some of the things they do.
July 30, 20241 yr 25 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Not really mate, not really. It really happened since Bill Clinton and NAFTA. That's when Democrats started a decades long practice of shaking hands with union leaders only to stab unions in the back once in office. Why did they keep falling for it? Because Republicans were in their "libertarian" phase and eliminating unions was a central pillar. Then comes along Trump, a plain speaking buffon Republican who says he's going to help them and stokes them racism and victimization to boot. His first campaign was all about repealing NAFTA (he modified slightly which Hillary was going to do anyways), slapped a trade war with China and subsidized a bunch of farming. Obama was a part of this, blaming him as the culprit is hogwash, Democrats became globalists a long tome before him. NAFTA started in concept under Bush with a tri-lateral agreement between the US Mexico and Canada. Democrats and labor unions have been in bed together since the 30's. No party preaches victim mentality better than the Democrats China has been in a trade war with us for decades...we have only recently started to participate in it About the only accurate thing you said here was that Trump is a plan speaking buffoon. Except you spelled buffoon wrong.
July 30, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, The Norseman said: NAFTA started in concept under Bush with a tri-lateral agreement between the US Mexico and Canada. Democrats and labor unions have been in bed together since the 30's. No party preaches victim mentality better than the Democrats China has been in a trade war with us for decades...we have only recently started to participate in it About the only accurate thing you said here was that Trump is a plan speaking buffoon. Except you spelled buffoon wrong. You spelled plain wrong. And the white working class had been moving right since Clinton. The only effect Trump had on the trajectory of the white working class vote is that in 2020, his share dipped down to 59%
July 30, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, The Norseman said: No party preaches victim mentality better than the Democrats mAGA says hold my beer with, "they’re coming to take my job!”
July 30, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, The Norseman said: NAFTA started in concept under Bush with a tri-lateral agreement between the US Mexico and Canada. Democrats and labor unions have been in bed together since the 30's. Democrats got on board and ultimately signed NAFTA. That created the uni-party of the late 90's when both parties were basically globalists. This was a backstabbing of the Democrats-unions marriage which as you said lasted so long. If Republicans hadn't gone full **** going to war v.s. labor they could have had the unions at any time since the turn of the century. Trump to his credit was the one who saw that blind spot and exploited it and all the anti labor Republicans (like Ryan) were the first to go. I'll say more. If Trump wants to win this election he better get back to specifics about HOW he's going to help middle america. He's done talking about NAfta, he's not all that in favor of stronger unionization rules, he spends way more time talking about making imports more expensive instead of fast tracking exports. He's hanging his hat on halting immigration like that's the only thorn in the side of labor. It's far from even a top 3 priority.
July 30, 20241 yr 49 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: Im not a big advocate of unions, but as long as companies are allowed to support candidates, unions they be able to as well. i don't either should be allowed. it's a huge part of the problem.
July 30, 20241 yr 12 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: mAGA says hold my beer with, "they’re coming to take my job!” and our guns and our unborn children and our bibles and our genders and our right to say the quiet stuff out loud.
July 30, 20241 yr 21 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: You spelled plain wrong. And the white working class had been moving right since Clinton. The only effect Trump had on the trajectory of the white working class vote is that in 2020, his share dipped down to 59% And look at the leg up during the Obama years
July 30, 20241 yr 20 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said: Democrats got on board and ultimately signed NAFTA. That created the uni-party of the late 90's when both parties were basically globalists. This was a backstabbing of the Democrats-unions marriage which as you said lasted so long. If Republicans hadn't gone full **** going to war v.s. labor they could have had the unions at any time since the turn of the century. Trump to his credit was the one who saw that blind spot and exploited it and all the anti labor Republicans (like Ryan) were the first to go. I'll say more. If Trump wants to win this election he better get back to specifics about HOW he's going to help middle america. He's done talking about NAfta, he's not all that in favor of stronger unionization rules, he spends way more time talking about making imports more expensive instead of fast tracking exports. He's hanging his hat on halting immigration like that's the only thorn in the side of labor. It's far from even a top 3 priority. My hope is that he convinces union voters to disenroll and unions become a thing of the past. They were dying on their own before Obama pumped obscene amounts of tax payer money into them to try to keep them alive. They are a dinosaur that has no place in America today.
July 30, 20241 yr Just now, The Norseman said: And look at the leg up during the Obama years Yeah, I see it. It looks like Romney should take the credit for returning the white working class to the Republicans, not Trump. Honestly, the interesting thing about this chart (especially when considering white working class share dipped in 2020), is that every time a Republicans in office and they inevitably tank the economy (which of course has happened at the conclusion of every Republican admin since the 60's and almost certainly will continue to happen), the white working class briefly snaps out of it and pulls back towards the Dems, but otherwise they're hypnotized by right wing media and their lurch right continues.
July 30, 20241 yr Just now, The Norseman said: My hope is that he convinces union voters to disenroll and unions become a thing of the past. They were dying on their own before Obama pumped obscene amounts of tax payer money into them to try to keep them alive. They are a dinosaur that has no place in America today. Well that's exactly the attitude that formed the Democrats blue wall. The Democrats are trying to fight back with pro union bills while Trump is tied up because at the end of the day, Republicans are still mighty anti union.
July 30, 20241 yr 13 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: and our guns and our unborn children and our bibles and our genders and our right to say the quiet stuff out loud. Kamala has said she wants to ban assault rifles and has endorsed a buyback program
July 30, 20241 yr Just now, Mike030270 said: Kamala has said she wants to ban assault rifles and has endorsed a buyback program so did biden, obama & clinton.
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