Posted September 24, 20241 yr JLTV vs Humvee: Which Tactical Vehicle Reigns Supreme? Quote Military.com | By Scott Murdock Published September 23, 2024 The first time I saw a Joint Light Tactical Vehicle, it looked like it had fallen straight from outer space. Compared to the tired Humvees on the lot that it’s intended to replace, the multi-role tactical vehicle was bigger, faster, built like a tank and had the kind of suspension you usually only find under a trophy truck screaming through a Baja 1000 stage. In a word, it was rad. But the JLTV’s budding tenure as America’s war wagon of choice hasn’t been an easy cruise down the boulevard. The Pentagon’s weapons testers have complained in the past about its high maintenance needs and low reliability, and it took soldiers less than four days to total one upon initial fielding. Hell, it even took an eagle-eyed corporal to save the Marine Corps $140 million in ruined steering columns alone. Bureaucrats and generals have taken turns throwing roadblocks in its path, and now they’re saying the Humvee is here to stay. But so is the JLTV contract Oshkosh Defense initially won in 2015. So what’s going on? We don’t have a crystal ball to read the JLTV’s future, but we can at least make sense of where the program is now and how it got here. The JLTV Makes Perfect Sense on Paper Detailed performance figures are still hush-hush, but it’s no secret that the JLTV outperforms the Humvee across the board. According to Defense News, the JLTV trounces the Humvee’s 190-horsepower engine (that’s the most modernized version, mind you) with more than 400 horsepower from a Duramax turbodiesel engine that’s been heavily modified by Banks (yeah, that Banks). Oshkosh’s proprietary TAK-4i front suspension offers 20 inches of travel, a self-leveling suspension-aided egress system and the ability to raise and lower vehicle height from the driver’s seat. Drivers can deflate and inflate the tires without dismounting, as well. In the two-door configuration (sporty!), Oshkosh Defense lists a payload of 5,100 pounds for the JLTV. In the heavier four-door configuration, it’s 3,500 pounds. That’s all well and good, but is the JLTV also significantly heavier? Nope: Once you add enough armor to make the Humvee survivable in modern combat, it weighs more than 13,000 pounds. The larger, more powerful, more technologically advanced JLTV weighs in at 14,000 pounds. It also appears to be more reliable than the Humvee, despite past complaints from testers. According to Motor Trend, the JLTV covered an average of 7,051 miles between failures, compared to just 2,968 miles for the up-armored Humvee during testing. The JLTV comes in four configurations to meet a range of mission requirements: general purpose, heavy gun carrier, utility and close combat weapons carrier. All of them are packed with technology that the Humvee can’t compete with. The ISV is lighter and more agile than the Humvee ever was. (Photo by Mark Schauer) The JLTV is also part of a larger restructuring of the U.S. military. In situations where the JLTV would be too big and heavy for mission requirements, the Infantry Squad Vehicle has its back. Neither the JLTV nor the ISV is more versatile than the Humvee on their own, but together, they’re more capable. By splitting duties between the two vehicles, soldiers and Marines will have access to a better solution in a wider range of missions. Which Vehicle Would You Rather Take Fire In? Put the facts and figures aside for a minute: If you were about to take a direct hit from a roadside bomb, which driver’s seat do you want to be sitting in? That’s a relatively easy question to answer. Not only does the JLTV have superior armor, but it was designed from Day 1 to carry all that armor, unlike the Humvee that got everything from metal plates to sandbags thrown at it over the last 20 years in a desperate attempt to keep its occupants alive. The JLTV’s squinty windows are smaller targets, and the windshield is heavily raked like a sports car. That’s not for aerodynamics; it’s the same principle that tank designers have been using for decades. Angling a surface effectively increases its thickness without adding mass. That’s a design philosophy I’d appreciate if 7.62mm rounds were splattering against my windshield like bugs on the highway. It’s even easier to get in and out of the JLTV -- and not just because its suspension can drop the mine-resistant, V-shaped belly to the dirt like a SoCal lowrider. Anyone with experience in armored vehicles knows how heavy the doors can be. That can be a serious problem if you have to get out in a hurry while your door is facing uphill. But remember that SAES feature? It keeps the vehicle as close to level as possible so occupants don’t have to fight gravity to open their doors. We have 20 years of experience telling us that the JLTV is a far better combat vehicle than the Humvee. But is it the right truck for the next war? Red Tape: The JLTV’s Critical Vulnerability The JLTV is the future, but that doesn’t mean the past is going away. In 2019, Army Under Secretary Ryan McCarthy confirmed that reduced funding had forced the Army to reduce its JLTV order by 25%, as Task & Purpose reported at the time. "There's no doubt the Army needs [the JLTV] in the future -- just not at the numbers of the original program of record when the requirements of a high-intensity land conflict are considered,” McCarthy said at the time. Then, in 2020, we learned that the Army had plans to retrofit old Humvees (again) to make them more survivable. Lt. Gen. James Pasquarette, the Army G-8 at the time, told Defense News that 50,000 Humvees would remain in service once the Army acquired its last JLTV. For those of you keeping track, that means the Army will own more of the vehicle being replaced than its replacement when it’s all said and done. That’s some military math for you. The Marine Corps will also be hanging on to thousands of Humvees, but without any modernization (how very on-brand of them). According to then-Commandant Gen. Robert Neller, the Humvee will be deployed depending on the threat assessment of specific missions. The Pentagon’s back-and-forth strategic shifts have taken their toll on more than the JLTV program. It’s even affecting which helicopters the military uses. "Why the [heavy-lift replacement]? Got to carry a heavier payload and fly higher in a hotter climate,” then-Defense Secretary Mark Esper said, according to the Modern War Institute. "What was the heavier payload? JLTV. What drove JLTV? IEDs in Afghanistan and Iraq … In many ways, they were designed for a different conflict.” Are We Doing This or Not? The JLTV has been in use for several years now. The Defense Department is buying more every year as the modernization push continues. At the same time, there are newer – possibly better – vehicles on the way that could make the JLTV obsolete before it really reaches its prime. Will autonomous vehicles take its place? Will demand for hybrid powertrains push legacy diesel JLTVs aside? We’ve already seen a push for all-electric vehicles on the battlefield. If you’re a fan of the JLTV, I don’t think you have anything to worry about. The fact that Humvees are still around proves that the military isn’t afraid of holding onto old gear if it still serves a purpose. Likewise, the Humvee has managed to dodge mandatory retirement just as well as the A-10. Both old-timers simply refuse to quit kicking ass in the name of freedom and a grateful public salutes them for it. It’s easy to poke fun at the military’s bumbling administrative process but maybe having more vehicles available isn’t all bad. The JLTV, ISV and Humvee all have their place, and it’s not like the military is going to recoup its money by selling off the old Humvee fleet. So yes, the JLTV is here to stay. It is a vehicle of the future, even if it isn’t the only vehicle in that future. (This is a long story from my days in the Army, but one that I recall very fondly lol) This story made me realize just how many years have gone by since I was in the Army. The HMMWV (Humvee) had come out just a few years before I went in, so it was still being rolled out to units when I got in. So seeing them wasn't a daily thing. About a year after getting to Fort Hood, my battalion received probably around 100 of them so I had to be licensed on it (the M1037 specifically). I was already licensed on the CUCV M1008, M1009 and M1028 (Chevy Blazer and Chevy Pick Up), with my main vehicle being the M1009 (Blazer). We had to do a day or two of training on the M1037 (HMMWV) where they told us about all the awesome things the Humvee could do. It could drive in 4 or 5 feet of water, it could clime a nearly 90 degree incline and drive on flat tires with no problem. Then, after classroom training, they took us out to North Fort Hood where there were streams and hills and rugged terrain. We were on a dirt road with a Humvee that we'd all drive to be road (and off road) qualified and thus licensed to drive it. On one side of the dirt road was a steep incline. On the other side was a stream, 2 or 3 feet deep. Guess who the first to qualify (drive) was? Yep, me. Well, we just went through all this classroom training that told us how awesome this thing was and they showed us videos of it doing all these awesome things, then they take us to a location where we can actually DO all those awesome things. I was stoked! So I get into the driver seat, the SFC (a former drill sergeant), gets into the front passenger seat as the instructor and two more of my friends (all E4's) climb into the back seats. I start the vehicle and begin to drive. After 5 or 10 seconds, it's time for the awesome fun! So I turn the steering wheel and head up that steep incline... the former Drill Sergeant wasn't happy! So I had to get back onto the road. Next up... that stream! I turn the wheel again and next thing you know, we're ankle deep in water (literally, the water was above our ankles inside the vehicle lol). The former Drill Sergeant (SFC Gill) says to me "Get the F back up on the road! What's wrong with you?!" TO which I answered something along the lines of "Well, you just showed us all those videos of all these awesome things that this thing can do, then you brought us here where we could do it, so I did it..." We got back up onto the road and I drove down a ways, turned around and came back to the starting point (which was all he thought we were going to do to begin with lol). I was ordered out of the vehicle and the rest of my buddies got their turn... but their turns weren't as awesome as mine was! All four of us who were in the vehicle for my test drive were wet up to our ankles lol. For a few weeks or months after that, whenever I'd see SFC Gill again (he wasn't in my platoon so I didn't see him all that often), I'd say "Hey Sergeant Gill, want to go for a test drive?" He'd just glare at me, then laugh.
September 24, 20241 yr 5 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: JLTV vs Humvee: Which Tactical Vehicle Reigns Supreme? (This is a long story from my days in the Army, but one that I recall very fondly lol) This story made me realize just how many years have gone by since I was in the Army. The HMMWV (Humvee) had come out just a few years before I went in, so it was still being rolled out to units when I got in. So seeing them wasn't a daily thing. About a year after getting to Fort Hood, my battalion received probably around 100 of them so I had to be licensed on it (the M1037 specifically). I was already licensed on the CUCV M1008, M1009 and M1028 (Chevy Blazer and Chevy Pick Up), with my main vehicle being the M1009 (Blazer). We had to do a day or two of training on the M1037 (HMMWV) where they told us about all the awesome things the Humvee could do. It could drive in 4 or 5 feet of water, it could clime a nearly 90 degree incline and drive on flat tires with no problem. Then, after classroom training, they took us out to North Fort Hood where there were streams and hills and rugged terrain. We were on a dirt road with a Humvee that we'd all drive to be road (and off road) qualified and thus licensed to drive it. On one side of the dirt road was a steep incline. On the other side was a stream, 2 or 3 feet deep. Guess who the first to qualify (drive) was? Yep, me. Well, we just went through all this classroom training that told us how awesome this thing was and they showed us videos of it doing all these awesome things, then they take us to a location where we can actually DO all those awesome things. I was stoked! So I get into the driver seat, the SFC (a former drill sergeant), gets into the front passenger seat as the instructor and two more of my friends (all E4's) climb into the back seats. I start the vehicle and begin to drive. After 5 or 10 seconds, it's time for the awesome fun! So I turn the steering wheel and head up that steep incline... the former Drill Sergeant wasn't happy! So I had to get back onto the road. Next up... that stream! I turn the wheel again and next thing you know, we're ankle deep in water (literally, the water was above our ankles inside the vehicle lol). The former Drill Sergeant (SFC Gill) says to me "Get the F back up on the road! What's wrong with you?!" TO which I answered something along the lines of "Well, you just showed us all those videos of all these awesome things that this thing can do, then you brought us here where we could do it, so I did it..." We got back up onto the road and I drove down a ways, turned around and came back to the starting point (which was all he thought we were going to do to begin with lol). I was ordered out of the vehicle and the rest of my buddies got their turn... but their turns weren't as awesome as mine was! All four of us who were in the vehicle for my test drive were wet up to our ankles lol. For a few weeks or months after that, whenever I'd see SFC Gill again (he wasn't in my platoon so I didn't see him all that often), I'd say "Hey Sergeant Gill, want to go for a test drive?" He'd just glare at me, then laugh. Speaking from what I've experienced and heard in places, the little squad side by side is stupid. Might as well put a neon target on the roof for FPV drones. So long as the JLTV has better armor than the HMMWV, then it's a winner. TBH, though, motorized infantry should be a thing of the past. Drones gave non-arty having groups arty. Either light or mechanized infantry. Anything in between is more or less suicide.
September 25, 20241 yr Author 4 hours ago, Bill said: Speaking from what I've experienced and heard in places, the little squad side by side is stupid. Might as well put a neon target on the roof for FPV drones. So long as the JLTV has better armor than the HMMWV, then it's a winner. TBH, though, motorized infantry should be a thing of the past. Drones gave non-arty having groups arty. Either light or mechanized infantry. Anything in between is more or less suicide. When I was in, nothing that we had was armored. The doors of the HMMWV's that we had were thin vinyl (as were the 'windows'), like a tarp you'd buy at the hardware store. I only drove the one that they qualified us on though... at least I don't remember driving any others after that. Of course, I was in the Signal Corps so we never rated top line stuff. We were still carrying Vietnam era M16A1's, not the new A2's. I had an M1009 CUCV Blazer, (similar to the one below) with my name on the driver side windshield for a couple of years, though. It was pretty sturdy. I did a good bit of mudding with it a couple of times... it was a pain in the neck to clean afterwards though lol. If I could have bought one in decent condition when they sold them as surplus, I'd have thought about getting one (at a cheap price). But I'm sure that the majority of them were pretty well worn out by that time. I wonder if anyone who bought one knows that they all had the same ignition key. So anyone with a key could just come steal it from them lol.
September 25, 20241 yr 16 hours ago, paco said: Warthog. 12 hours ago, DEagle7 said: Both of you are wrong Both of you are right.....
September 25, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, NOTW said: what do you figure, the show went through about 300 of those chevy vans? a season?
September 25, 20241 yr 11 hours ago, VaBeach_Eagle said: When I was in, nothing that we had was armored. The doors of the HMMWV's that we had were thin vinyl (as were the 'windows'), like a tarp you'd buy at the hardware store. I only drove the one that they qualified us on though... at least I don't remember driving any others after that. Of course, I was in the Signal Corps so we never rated top line stuff. We were still carrying Vietnam era M16A1's, not the new A2's. I had an M1009 CUCV Blazer, (similar to the one below) with my name on the driver side windshield for a couple of years, though. It was pretty sturdy. I did a good bit of mudding with it a couple of times... it was a pain in the neck to clean afterwards though lol. If I could have bought one in decent condition when they sold them as surplus, I'd have thought about getting one (at a cheap price). But I'm sure that the majority of them were pretty well worn out by that time. I wonder if anyone who bought one knows that they all had the same ignition key. So anyone with a key could just come steal it from them lol. My uncle went through infantry training in LA back n the early 70s. He said he was the luckiest soldier in training, since he was the only one with experience driving heavy trucks, so he just followed everyone around with the water buffalo and watched everyone else enjoy the summer heat.
September 25, 20241 yr Author 1 hour ago, NOTW said: Pretty close to my mindset when I was behind the wheel of the Humvee when I was qualifying on it lol.
September 25, 20241 yr Author 2 minutes ago, Bill said: My uncle went through infantry training in LA back n the early 70s. He said he was the luckiest soldier in training, since he was the only one with experience driving heavy trucks, so he just followed everyone around with the water buffalo and watched everyone else enjoy the summer heat. You mention the water buffalo and that brought back to mind an incident that happened one day moving from one field site (in Texas) to another... maybe 1989ish. We were convoying to the new location (a ranch in Lometa, TX) and I was riding shotgun in one of the deuce and a half's. The deuce and a half in front of us was pulling our water buffalo behind it. As we're driving along, my buddy and I were talking... probably football, when we saw the right tire of the water buffalo come off and roll off into a ditch. If you've ever been in a deuce and a half, you know that you likely won't feel the drag of the deuce and a half not having both of its tires. So they just kept driving, oblivious to what was going on behind them. We didn't have any way to call them (no cell phones at that time), so my buddy had to try to get up next to them so that I could yell out the window and tell them what was going on. We were without water (other than what we all already had on us) until the next day.
September 25, 20241 yr 32 minutes ago, Toastrel said: No love for the modern answer? are my posts a joke to you?
September 25, 20241 yr 30 minutes ago, BFit said: are my posts a joke to you? Don't take it personally - dude doesn't even know what month we're currently in
September 25, 20241 yr 33 minutes ago, BFit said: are my posts a joke to you? are you just asking him, or everyone and do you really want to know the answer?
September 25, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: are you just asking him, or everyone and do you really want to know the answer? i can take it, i have thick skin. like, really thick skin. almost looks like fat.......almost
September 25, 20241 yr 55 minutes ago, BFit said: are my posts a joke to you? I thought your was, yes. The photo I posted is a real guy, who is claiming Elon remote disabled his cybertruck after he installed the rear machine gun.
September 25, 20241 yr 15 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I thought your was, yes. The photo I posted is a real guy, who is claiming Elon remote disabled his cybertruck after he installed the rear machine gun. ahh i see. the guy i posted is a real guy too. Brandon Herrera, the AKguy and almost the republican nominee for a senate district in texas. he mounted an M2 in the back, along with storage for his own designed firearm, the AK50, in the front trunk. hes a popular guntuber and makes great videos
September 25, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, BFit said: ahh i see. the guy i posted is a real guy too. Brandon Herrera, the AKguy and almost the republican nominee for a senate district in texas. he mounted an M2 in the back, along with storage for his own designed firearm, the AK50, in the front trunk. hes a popular guntuber and makes great videos My bad, I didn't watch the video and assumed it was a joke. Apparently the armor is good enough to keep firefighters out.
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