December 10, 2024Dec 10 9 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I was talking about the cost of healthcare per capita. We have one of the highest in the world. We also have some of the highest comorbity factors in the world. I have yet to see an analysis which accounts for those confounding variables. I am happy to look at any data that accounts for that.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 4 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: But people say they're greedy. Sure, they can be Ds and deny things that people need, but their profit margin isn't like 50%. They profit more than most American companies. Yet everyone wants to blame insurance companies and call them greedy. They are greedy though. Being less greedy than Comcast doesn't make you less of a shithead. Especially when Comcast being greedy means I have a hard time watching the game, while United being greedy means people die. There are slightly higher stakes here. It's also a necessity to have. Meaning the entire population should have at least some kind of insurance. People don't need cable. It's a silly comparison.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 Corporations exist to maximize profits. If you want a HC system that prioritizes health outcomes, then don't have for profit insurance, hospitals and doctor groups.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 7 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: smokers already pay a higher premium in most cases. The ACA allows insurers to charge tobacco users up to 50% more for health insurance. i'm not sure about obamacare tho. Obesity is the largest contributor to healthcare costs, but we can't charge for it because we might hurt someone's feelings.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 2 minutes ago, BBE said: We also have some of the highest comorbity factors in the world. I have yet to see an analysis which accounts for those confounding variables. I am happy to look at any data that accounts for that. I actually don't think that's true anymore. I'm pretty sure Mexico has us beat solidly now. So much diabetes and heart disease down there now. But regardless our health outcomes are WAY worse than westernized countries. I posted maternal/fetal morbidity data earlier and we're on the scale of 4-5 times worse than any other other westernized countries. I have a hard time buying that's all because of fast food and Walmart.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 Luigi Mangione is sus. LINK Quote Luigi Mangione, who was arrested and charged with murder in the shooting death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, once belonged to a group of Ivy League gamers who played assassins, a member of the group told NBC News. In the game, called "Among Us," some players are secretly assigned to be killers in space who perform other tasks while trying to avoid suspicion from other players.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 4 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: They are greedy though. Being less greedy than Comcast doesn't make you less of a shithead. Especially when Comcast being greedy means I have a hard time watching the game, while United being greedy means people die. There are slightly higher stakes here. It's also a necessity to have. Meaning the entire population should have at least some kind of insurance. People don't need cable. It's a silly comparison. Your issue seems to be with capitalism and the US heathcare system as opposed to the insurance companies. They're making money just like any other business, if you have a problem with a company making money, your issue is with the system, not them.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Corporations exist to maximize profits. If you want a HC system that prioritizes health outcomes, then don't have for profit insurance, hospitals and doctor groups. I still think a hybrid method is the best way forward to allow our R&D to continue to priduce
December 10, 2024Dec 10 9 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I'm saying the kid buying lemonade is making a blanket statement that they'll only pay 50% of the price of the lemonade, and the cup was already drank, so the only recourse for the seller is to say well in that case the price is 2x what I was selling it for. And yes it's broken. Very broken. Except it’s not the patient giving the blanket price statement or the Doctor doubling the price. It’s 2 for profit entities sticking their hands into everyone’s pockets. So basically it’s proof the private market is incapable of running our healthcare system without f-ing over the patients. Avg cost for a family insurance plan in 1999, was $5791. In 2024 it’s $25,572.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 8 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: Your issue seems to be with capitalism and the US heathcare system as opposed to the insurance companies. They're making money just like any other business, if you have a problem with a company making money, your issue is with the system, not them. Yes, taking issue with how someone makes money means I take issue with everyone making money in a capitalist society. Excellent point. I can't complain about making a buck off of dead kids unless I'm willing to die on the same hill for the exorbitant prices at Build a Bear workshop. Does that argument really make sense to you?
December 10, 2024Dec 10 5 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Obesity is the largest contributor to healthcare costs, but we can't charge for it because we might hurt someone's feelings. true. i've only seen the upcharge for tobacco users...not fatties. one of my employers had a workaround for smokers if they agreed to some sort of smoking cessation program where a service "coached" them to quit.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I still think a hybrid method is the best way forward to allow our R&D to continue to priduce That's basically what I laid out above -- basic government run health care for all, and the wealthy can opt into more exclusive care. The issue is, the more people who opt into better care (that they pay for), the more politicians like Bernie and AOC will cry that it is unfair (regardless of the fact that people are paying for it). So it likely fails as they demand all Americans get access to all care without paying. People will need to accept different standards of care.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 1 minute ago, DEagle7 said: Yes, taking issue with how someone makes money means I take issue with everyone making money in a capitalist society. Excellent point. I can't complain about making a buck off of dead kids unless I'm willing to die on the same hill for the exorbitant prices at Build a Bear workshop. Does that argument really make sense to you? This rebuttal is obtuse or just disingenuous. Companies need to be able to profit to exist. So you take issues with insurance companies being able to profit, yet if they couldn't profit, they wouldn't exist, and then no one in this country would have healthcare because there would be no health insurance companies. Unless of course you believe that insurance companies shouldn't exist at all in the first place, and everyone should just have free healthcare, which would mean your issue is with the US system and not the insurance companies themselves. I'm not sure exactly what your beef with the health insurance companies is. We've established their profit margin is low. You say they're greedy, so the only logical thing to take from that is you want them to cover more cost or everyone's costs. Which means they would be in the red and then would fold. So what's the solution to this problem other than changing the US healthcare system?
December 10, 2024Dec 10 16 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Corporations exist to maximize profits. If you want a HC system that prioritizes health outcomes, then don't have for profit insurance, hospitals and doctor groups. Same could be said for infrastructure, military defense and education.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 6 minutes ago, MidMoFo said: Except it’s not the patient giving the blanket price statement or the Doctor doubling the price. It’s 2 for profit entities sticking their hands into everyone’s pockets. So basically it’s proof the private market is incapable of running our healthcare system without f-ing over the patients. Avg cost for a family insurance plan in 1999, was $5791. In 2024 it’s $25,572. The patient is the one in the middle getting screwed absolutely. I'm just laying out the reasons why the hospitals do what they do.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 19 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: I actually don't think that's true anymore. I'm pretty sure Mexico has us beat solidly now. So much diabetes and heart disease down there now. But regardless our health outcomes are WAY worse than westernized countries. I posted maternal/fetal morbidity data earlier and we're on the scale of 4-5 times worse than any other other westernized countries. I have a hard time buying that's all because of fast food and Walmart. Actually it is very true that comordities due to diet, activity, body composition, and the fact that the US is one of if not the most heterogeneous populations on the planet play a large factor in per capita Healthcare expenses. And that's before adding in the extra cost burden the US carries for pharmaceuticals.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 6 minutes ago, Sack that QB said: This rebuttal is obtuse or just disingenuous. Companies need to be able to profit to exist. So you take issues with insurance companies being able to profit, yet if they couldn't profit, they wouldn't exist, and then no one in this country would have healthcare because there would be no health insurance companies. Unless of course you believe that insurance companies shouldn't exist at all in the first place, and everyone should just have free healthcare, which would mean your issue is with the US system and not the insurance companies themselves. I'm not sure exactly what your beef with the health insurance companies is. We've established their profit margin is low. You say they're greedy, so the only logical thing to take from that is you want them to cover more cost or everyone's costs. Which means they would be in the red and then would fold. So what's the solution to this problem other than changing the US healthcare system? What's obtuse is comparing the profit margins of a company that provides a essential need to average Joe's bait shop. It turns out when your company provides a service mandatory for the entire country you don't need 20% profit margins. And you can see that in the fact that United's gross profits have increased from about 20 billion in 2010 to about 90 billion in 2024. So spare me the nonsense about them going under of they actually had to pay for the stuff they're supposed to pay for.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 4 minutes ago, BBE said: Actually it is very true that comordities due to diet, activity, body composition, and the fact that the US is one of if not the most heterogeneous populations on the planet play a large factor in per capita Healthcare expenses. And that's before adding in the extra cost burden the US carries for pharmaceuticals. Absolutely. Both comorbidities and our dog crap system contribute to negative health outcomes. We should try to fix both.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 18 minutes ago, vikas83 said: That's basically what I laid out above -- basic government run health care for all, and the wealthy can opt into more exclusive care. The issue is, the more people who opt into better care (that they pay for), the more politicians like Bernie and AOC will cry that it is unfair (regardless of the fact that people are paying for it). So it likely fails as they demand all Americans get access to all care without paying. People will need to accept different standards of care. Eh I see it as more likely than Medicare for all getting accepted regardless of how people feel about one or the other. Pharmaceutical and insurance lobbyists are pretty powerful players. We're already kind of making that bifurcation with coneirge doctors. Albeit on a much smaller scale.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 Just now, DEagle7 said: Absolutely. Both comorbidities and our dog crap system contribute to negative health outcomes. We should try to fix both. The comorbities mask the true state of the system. This leads to false comparison. If properly normalized where does the US system actually rank? And is it really a "dog crap" system? Because 15 years ago it was said that access was the magic bullet. Obama are sought to solve that with little effect. Now affordability is the new focus.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: What's obtuse is comparing the profit margins of a company that provides a essential need to average Joe's bait shop. It turns out when your company provides a service mandatory for the entire country you don't need 20% profit margins. And you can see that in the fact that United's gross profits have increased from about 20 billion in 2010 to about 90 billion in 2024. So spare me the nonsense about them going under of they actually had to pay for the stuff they're supposed to pay for. They're not "supposed to" pay for anything, they are not obligated to pay for everyone. And if their profit margin is 6%, I suppose you just don't want them to profit at all. I maintain your real issue is with the US healthcare system and not the insurance companies.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 38 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Corporations exist to maximize profits. If you want a HC system that prioritizes health outcomes, then don't have for profit insurance, hospitals and doctor groups. Bingo
December 10, 2024Dec 10 3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Eh I see it as more likely than Medicare for all getting accepted regardless of how people feel about one or the other. Pharmaceutical and insurance lobbyists are pretty powerful players. We're already kind of making that bifurcation with coneirge doctors. Albeit on a much smaller scale. It's all about the scale -- most people have never heard of concierge doctors. My guy limited himself to 75 families in order to provide high quality care to people. But I have seen more and more doctors try and transition to it, at lower prices and with much larger client rosters. As the masses become aware of it, the whining will begin.
December 10, 2024Dec 10 2 minutes ago, BBE said: The comorbities mask the true state of the system. This leads to false comparison. If properly normalized where does the US system actually rank? And is it really a "dog crap" system? Because 15 years ago it was said that access was the magic bullet. Obama are sought to solve that with little effect. Now affordability is the new focus. If argue the opposite is true as well. How much can we pin on comorbidities when we operate in a dog crap healthcare system? Well never know until we address one or the other.
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