December 19, 20241 yr 22 minutes ago, vikas83 said: But it works as a relative analysis to other countries since the wealthy abroad do the same thing. It's harder to capture what's paid in VAT abroad though, no?
December 19, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, TEW said: None of that is a grift though. A grift involves cheating someone out of money. If Trump does exactly what he says he’s going to do, it’s not a grift, especially when he is losing money from his entire political adventure. Cutting taxes for the top 5% and replacing it with tariffs is passing a portion of tax burden to consumers. I wouldn’t call the move "cheating” the magat voters out of money, but trump didn’t run his campaign telling those voters that their taxes were going up. They were just too stupid to understand it.
December 19, 20241 yr 29 minutes ago, MidMoFo said: Cutting taxes for the top 5% and replacing it with tariffs is passing a portion of tax burden to consumers. I wouldn’t call the move "cheating” the magat voters out of money, but trump didn’t run his campaign telling those voters that their taxes were going up. They were just too stupid to understand it. I didn't vote for Trump, but it's not his fault people are as stupid as he is.
December 19, 20241 yr 31 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: It's harder to capture what's paid in VAT abroad though, no? This analysis dealt with income taxes. The US has sales taxes, just at the state level (yeah, we see you Delaware).
December 19, 20241 yr A billionaire telling millionaires not to pass funding for government workers. MAGA thinks these guys are looking out for them. What a country.
December 19, 20241 yr 57 minutes ago, SPIDER-MAN said: A billionaire telling millionaires not to pass funding for government workers. MAGA thinks these guys are looking out for them. What a country. they will just blame obama.
December 19, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Right, it's not an easy topic to dig into. But talking about the wealthy in terms of AGI is misleading. Bezos holds a net worth in the $100s of billions, but has only "declared" $4b in income (on which he paid just short of $1b in taxes). Borrowing against investments and paying interest that is less than the CG tax that would be applied makes smart financial sense for him. Continually rolling that by paying off old borrowed money with new borrowed money against other assets continues the same practice of avoiding taxes through leveraging assets. Financially it's smart. But it's also easy to see how that would be viewed as receiving an income (in borrowed dollars) that is not taxed, and just rolls. I have no idea what the answer is. But deferring capital gains indefinitely in this manner while at the same time claiming AGI is what matters isn't being transparent. I’d say a few things: 1) you’re talking about a very small percentage of people who are actually able to live off of credit lines and avoid taking an income. 2) one potential answer is, get rid of income tax all together and switch to a sales tax. That way, it doesn’t matter how the money was obtained, people are still paying a tax when they purchase something. Whether $100 is from income, capital gain, or a credit line, it’s all taxed the same when it is used to purchase a product.
December 19, 20241 yr 7 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Counterproposal for Vikas: You poors are too lazy to revolt. That's why you're poor. Making money requires effort.
December 19, 20241 yr 21 minutes ago, vikas83 said: You poors are too lazy to revolt. That's why you're poor. Making money requires effort. Jokes on you, I put a LOT of effort into making a bottom 20% doctor salary thank you very much. I'm definitely way too exhausted to revolt though. I'll leave the beheading to Moss.
December 19, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Jokes on you, I put a LOT of effort into making a bottom 20% doctor salary thank you very much. I'm definitely way too exhausted to revolt though. I'll leave the beheading to Moss. Even your meme has the lazy poor demanding the rich person do the work of putting his head in the guillotine.
December 19, 20241 yr President Musk and Trump order congress to kill the funding bill and demand a government shutdown. Making america better. Really?
December 19, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said: I’d say a few things: 1) you’re talking about a very small percentage of people who are actually able to live off of credit lines and avoid taking an income. 2) one potential answer is, get rid of income tax all together and switch to a sales tax. That way, it doesn’t matter how the money was obtained, people are still paying a tax when they purchase something. Whether $100 is from income, capital gain, or a credit line, it’s all taxed the same when it is used to purchase a product. Yeah I indicated a VAT as something I'm more in favor of. I don't think getting rid of income taxes entirely is tenable but I think we can improve how we apply it.
December 19, 20241 yr 2 hours ago, vikas83 said: This analysis dealt with income taxes. The US has sales taxes, just at the state level (yeah, we see you Delaware). Yeah but it's all part of the tax bill people pay. Poors tend to disproportionately pay VATs unless it's offset with some kind of flat rebate (essentially making the first $x you spend VAT free)
December 19, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, jsdarkstar said: President Musk and Trump order congress to kill the funding bill and demand a government shutdown. Making america better. Really? This will surely help.
December 20, 20241 yr 14 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said: I’d say a few things: 1) you’re talking about a very small percentage of people who are actually able to live off of credit lines and avoid taking an income. 2) one potential answer is, get rid of income tax all together and switch to a sales tax. That way, it doesn’t matter how the money was obtained, people are still paying a tax when they purchase something. Whether $100 is from income, capital gain, or a credit line, it’s all taxed the same when it is used to purchase a product. The problem with that is past a certain point it’s not a sale it’s a transfer of assets. people need to pay taxes. There’s benefits of having a government that everyone can and does enjoy.
December 20, 20241 yr 5 hours ago, Bill said: The problem with that is past a certain point it’s not a sale it’s a transfer of assets. people need to pay taxes. There’s benefits of having a government that everyone can and does enjoy. The issue is EVERYONE needs to pay taxes, not just a small subset of people. Having 50% of the population only pick up 3% of the tax burden is unsustainable as it leads to politicians buying votes from the majority while promising to make a small group pay for all of it. It's why the Democrats' talking point about making the rich pay their fair share is so ridiculous -- it's the people below the top 10% that don't pay enough. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/#:~:text=High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes,of all federal income taxes. If everyone paid, then more rational decisions would potentially be made by voters. It's easy to vote for stupidity when you don't pay the bil.
December 20, 20241 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: The issue is EVERYONE needs to pay taxes, not just a small subset of people. Having 50% of the population only pick up 3% of the tax burden is unsustainable as it leads to politicians buying votes from the majority while promising to make a small group pay for all of it. It's why the Democrats' talking point about making the rich pay their fair share is so ridiculous -- it's the people below the top 10% that don't pay enough. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/#:~:text=High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes,of all federal income taxes. If everyone paid, then more rational decisions would potentially be made by voters. It's easy to vote for stupidity when you don't pay the bil. tough sheet...enjoy the next 4 because president aoc is gonna make you pay more!
December 20, 20241 yr Just now, mr_hunt said: tough sheet...enjoy the next 4 because president aoc is gonna make you pay more! Your party isn't that dumb...yet.
December 20, 20241 yr Just now, mr_hunt said: tough sheet...enjoy the next 4 because president aoc is gonna make you pay more! Though you do perfectly encapsulate the entire message of the Democratic party. Your post translates as: "I am a complete failure at life, and instead of accepting that my difficult life is a result of my bad choices and decisions, I'm going to irrationally hate those that actually succeeded and demand politicians steal their money. All so I can feel like less of a failure living in a trailer in NEPA."
December 20, 20241 yr Just now, vikas83 said: Though you do perfectly encapsulate the entire message of the Democratic party. Your post translates as: "I am a complete failure at life, and instead of accepting that my difficult life is a result of my bad choices and decisions, I'm going to irrationally hate those that actually succeeded and demand politicians steal their money. All so I can feel like less of a failure living in a trailer in NEPA." In all fairness, if he was in a trailer in NEPA he'd likely be voting for Trump.
December 20, 20241 yr 9 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The issue is EVERYONE needs to pay taxes, not just a small subset of people. Having 50% of the population only pick up 3% of the tax burden is unsustainable as it leads to politicians buying votes from the majority while promising to make a small group pay for all of it. It's why the Democrats' talking point about making the rich pay their fair share is so ridiculous -- it's the people below the top 10% that don't pay enough. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2025/#:~:text=High-Income Taxpayers Paid the Majority of Federal Income Taxes,of all federal income taxes. If everyone paid, then more rational decisions would potentially be made by voters. It's easy to vote for stupidity when you don't pay the bil. Tax all income (personal, corporate, capital gains) at the same rate, get rid of deductions.
December 20, 20241 yr Just now, Bill said: Tax all income (personal, corporate, capital gains) at the same rate, get rid of deductions. I could support this, though I think capital gains shouldn't be taxed (you're investing money that has already been taxed), and the corporate rate has to be competitive in a global economy. 15% flat tax across the board makes sense.
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