1 minute ago, Tnt4philly said:

Do you realize that the due process you are denying these people is the same due process that keeps the government from deporting you and me without cause? 

For the record, I'd also be fine if they sent you to an El Salvadorian prison

Just now, The Norseman said:

For the record, I'd also be fine if they sent you to an El Salvadorian prison

uh oh, somebody's watching gay prision porn again. 

3 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

For the record, I'd also be fine if they sent you to an El Salvadorian prison

Why, because he said mean things about the moron you voted for? Have you tried not being such a quivering pussay all the time?

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Why do you insist on such dishonesty?  They've been moved DIRECTLY into prison in a 3rd country and we have paid for them to be kept there.  They have not been sent "home".

There is no debating this fact.  Trump says so himself and published articles and videos to announce the agreement.

Fair that it isn't "home" for the Venezuelan's, but the purpose of using a third country is so that they can't come back.

I understand that they have US constitutional protections as immigrants but I'm much more interested in the lives of American's that have been infringed upon due to this invasion of illegal immigration.....especially when it comes to violent gangs.  And, I don't think that American's should be on the hook financially to lawyer these people up and put them through our very slow, and very expensive court system. 

You ignore the boarder context, Democrats poured gasoline on a wildfire and now want to critique the methods the government uses to put it out.  A legal means has been found and used to deport them, it will be reviewed by the courts to determine whether or not it is a viable means.  If not, we'll use something else, or bring them back.

The only real questions is, do they await the decision of our courts here, or there.  I vote there. 

16 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Why, because he said mean things about the moron you voted for? Have you tried not being such a quivering pussay all the time?

I'd buy you a plane ticket

2 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I'd buy you a plane ticket

  Your broke ass can't afford a bus ticket to the grocery store

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

Fair that it isn't "home" for the Venezuelan's, but the purpose of using a third country is so that they can't come back.

I understand that they have US constitutional protections as immigrants but I'm much more interested in the lives of American's that have been infringed upon due to this invasion of illegal immigration.....especially when it comes to violent gangs.  And, I don't think that American's should be on the hook financially to lawyer these people up and put them through our very slow, and very expensive court system. 

You ignore the boarder context, Democrats poured gasoline on a wildfire and now want to critique the methods the government uses to put it out.  A legal means has been found and used to deport them, it will be reviewed by the courts to determine whether or not it is a viable means.  If not, we'll use something else, or bring them back.

The only real questions is, do they await the decision of our courts here, or there.  I vote there. 

Exactly zero of the words above justify the actions that were stopped by the preliminary injunction.

5 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I understand that they have US constitutional protections as immigrants but I'm much more interested in the lives of American's that have been infringed upon due to this invasion of illegal immigration.....especially when it comes to violent gangs.  And, I don't think that American's should be on the hook financially to lawyer these people up and put them through our very slow, and very expensive court system. 

Sorry mate but that's the price of being the best country in the world.  When we lower our standards we stop being the best.  We've put 250 people into one of the worst prisons in the world and we did that with zero due process.  That is our responsibility.  Trump has more integrity than you on this item as at least he owns it.

 

6 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

You ignore the boarder context, Democrats poured gasoline on a wildfire and now want to critique the methods the government uses to put it out.  A legal means has been found and used to deport them, it will be reviewed by the courts to determine whether or not it is a viable means.  If not, we'll use something else, or bring them back.

I'm not ignoring anything.  I'm happy when we improve the border protection and I thought the Democrats did a really really sheety job with this under both Obama and under Biden.

8 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

For the record, I'd also be fine if they sent you to an El Salvadorian prison

For the record, I wouldn’t want you or anyone else deported/imprisoned without due process. 

33 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Sorry mate but that's the price of being the best country in the world.  When we lower our standards we stop being the best.  We've put 250 people into one of the worst prisons in the world and we did that with zero due process.  That is our responsibility.  Trump has more integrity than you on this item as at least he owns it.

 

I'm not ignoring anything.  I'm happy when we improve the border protection and I thought the Democrats did a really really sheety job with this under both Obama and under Biden.

We deported 250 illegal immigrants tied to a violent, foreign gang using a law that you don't like.  A judge, ridiculously asked that we turn the plane around in mid air and we did not.  I hardly think that compromises our national status.  

 

34 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Sorry mate but that's the price of being the best country in the world.  When we lower our standards we stop being the best. 

This, this, this, all Fing day long. We are far from a perfect nation, but we always started with the promise that we are the good guys. 

Impeach the Judges. 

Disband the Senate. 
Keep the populace uneducated. 

 

Just now, Tnt4philly said:

This, this, this, all Fing day long. We are far from a perfect nation, but we always started with the promise that we are the good guys. 

The last time we had this debate it was over the detainees at Gitmo after September 11th.  Democrats were furious that their constitutional rights had been infringed upon and railed about the slippery slope and how it could affect every day Americans.  

It didn't then, and it won't now. 

If you all care so much about the glory of America, how about you devote your arguments to things that would help OUR citizens and not those that came here illegally with the intent to do us harm. 

1 minute ago, The Norseman said:

We deported 250 illegal immigrants tied to a violent, foreign gang using a law that you don't like.  A judge, ridiculously asked that we turn the plane around in mid air and we did not.  I hardly think that compromises our national status. 

Please stop.  We transported 250 suspected criminals directly into a hell hole of a prison with no due process.  That's what we did and Trump has trumpeted this to us telling us how great this was to do.  There is no debate here.  Trump, Rubio, Bondi etc. fully admit exactly what happened and in fact they are proud of it.

As for the judge, we don't know yet if Trump ignored a ruling or not.  That part remains to be reviewed but I see no reason why Trump can't win that battle.  However, I think Trump is on thinner ice with his use of the Alien Enemies Act which I suspect may also be reviewed.

1 hour ago, The Norseman said:

Fair that it isn't "home" for the Venezuelan's, but the purpose of using a third country is so that they can't come back.

I understand that they have US constitutional protections as immigrants but I'm much more interested in the lives of American's that have been infringed upon due to this invasion of illegal immigration.....especially when it comes to violent gangs.  And, I don't think that American's should be on the hook financially to lawyer these people up and put them through our very slow, and very expensive court system. 

You ignore the boarder context, Democrats poured gasoline on a wildfire and now want to critique the methods the government uses to put it out.  A legal means has been found and used to deport them, it will be reviewed by the courts to determine whether or not it is a viable means.  If not, we'll use something else, or bring them back.

The only real questions is, do they await the decision of our courts here, or there.  I vote there. 

What about bloods, crips, aryan brotherhood, and aryan nation?

Just now, DrPhilly said:

Please stop.  We transported 250 suspected criminals directly into a hell hole of a prison with no due process.  That's what we did and Trump has trumpeted this to us telling us how great this was to do.  There is no debate here.  Trump, Rubio, Bondi etc. fully admit exactly what happened and in fact they are proud of it.

As for the judge, we don't know yet if Trump ignored a ruling or not.  That part remains to be reviewed but I see no reason why Trump can't win that battle.  However, I think Trump is on thinner ice with his use of the Alien Enemies Act which I suspect may also be reviewed.

I'm sorry, is your argument emotional or legal?  If legal, we used the Alien Enemy's Act for deportation which has now been challenged in court.  If upheld, these people forego their constitutional protections and there is nothing to see here. If struck down, they come back.

The only question is whether the administration knowingly ignored a temporary injunction to turn the plane around in mid air.  We don't even know if there was enough fuel in the plane to make that possible, so your outrage is ridiculously over exaggerated.

All of this leads me to believe that your argument is actually emotional.  And that you FEEL badly for these deportees because they are going to a mean place while there is a small possibility that they may not be who they are accused of being. To which I have replied, that I DO NOT FEEL badly for them. 

Although, truth be told, I'm pretty sure that you don't feel anything for these people and that the emotion has more to do with your political leanings than anything else. 

 

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

What about bloods, crips, aryan brotherhood, and aryan nation?

what about them?

13 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

I'm sorry, is your argument emotional or legal?  If legal, we used the Alien Enemy's Act for deportation which has now been challenged in court.  If upheld, these people forego their constitutional protections and there is nothing to see here. If struck down, they come back.

There are two separate items here.  One is the legal aspects of due process which is also a moral item.  The other is Trump's relationship with the Federal Judiciary.  Both of those are absolutely legal issues and one is very much an area of risk Constitutionally.  We shall see how these things develop and the point of this thread is about the latter of the two.

16 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

The only question is whether the administration knowingly ignored a temporary injunction to turn the plane around in mid air.  We don't even know if there was enough fuel in the plane to make that possible, so your outrage is ridiculously over exaggerated.

That's a question, yes.  There will be another with regards to the use of the Alien Enemies Act as well at some point.

My concern rests on two different items. First, the manner in which Trump and his minions are handling the Federal Judiciary.  That's the topic of this thread and the very one that Chief Justice Roberts was addressing in his tweet.  I'm not outraged at this topic, so far.  Second, I'm outraged that we take 250 people and shovel them into a horrible prison without due process.  If we had simply deported them to their homelands I may be questioning the situation but I would not be outraged.

21 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

The last time we had this debate it was over the detainees at Gitmo after September 11th.  Democrats were furious that their constitutional rights had been infringed upon and railed about the slippery slope and how it could affect every day Americans.  

It didn't then, and it won't now. 

If you all care so much about the glory of America, how about you devote your arguments to things that would help OUR citizens and not those that came here illegally with the intent to do us harm. 

Take your GITMO argument up with democrats that were furious at the time. I am not a democrat nor was I furious about sending detainees too GITMO. As an American soldier, my biggest issue was us torturing people.
 

At the end of the day though, the Supreme Court ruled that the detainees at GITMO did have Constitutional protections. 
 

My argument is devoted to the single most important thing that helps all Americans, and that is the constitution. How is this even an argument? 

19 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said:

Take your GITMO argument up with democrats that were furious at the time. I am not a democrat nor was I furious about sending detainees too GITMO. As an American soldier, my biggest issue was us torturing people.
 

At the end of the day though, the Supreme Court ruled that the detainees at GITMO did have Constitutional protections. 
 

My argument is devoted to the single most important thing that helps all Americans, and that is the constitution. How is this even an argument? 

You arguments are devoted to taking the opposite side of anything this administration does, says or even implies.  Which is why you are up in arms over foreign criminals being deported using a different legal method that had been used before.  Which, of course, is a ridiculous argument and nothing even approaching a constitutional crisis.  

21 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

That's a question, yes.  There will be another with regards to the use of the Alien Enemies Act as well at some point.

My concern rests on two different items. First, the manner in which Trump and his minions are handling the Federal Judiciary.  That's the topic of this thread and the very one that Chief Justice Roberts was addressing in his tweet.  I'm not outraged at this topic, so far.  Second, I'm outraged that we take 250 people and shovel them into a horrible prison without due process.  If we had simply deported them to their homelands I may be questioning the situation but I would not be outraged.

Just curious...but were you also "outraged" when we sent the 9/11 terrorists and conspirators to Gitmo?

16 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

Just curious...but were you also "outraged" when we sent the 9/11 terrorists and conspirators to Gitmo?

The 9/11 situation and the issue with Tren de Aragua are in no way shape or form equivalent.

 

30 minutes ago, The Norseman said:

You arguments are devoted to taking the opposite side of anything this administration does, says or even implies.  Which is why you are up in arms over foreign criminals being deported using a different legal method that had been used before. 

I am taking the side of the Constitution and would have the same issue regardless of who is in the WH. I am "up in arms” because we deported "suspected foreign criminals” without due process. These people were already in US custody and no danger to anyone. We don’t sheet on the constitution because of your emotions. 
 

Different legal method. 🤣🤣🤣
 

 

@Dave Moss I used to know when I'd made a great post when you tagged it with a smiley.  Now, I know when @greenskeeper does the same.