We're missing Sweat and Williams on the defense, and Becton on the offense. Add in injuries to Dickerson and Johnson on the offense, and Carter on the defense. Not only is there a dropoff in starting talent, there's also a dropoff now in backup talent.

Eagles traditionally have built along both lines as the strength of the team. Both lines are weaker - considerably so - and it shows on the field. This is the number one reason why the team is not as strong this year.

The transition from bench to starter/ main contributor comes fast. The Eagles should have been preparing for Lane's slide/ injury. Dickerson and Jurgens are playing hurt.

Agreed. No quality depth on the Lines either.

Let's see if they can, as the season goes, get healthier (probably not very possible) and become a more cohesive unit.

All we hear is how great Couch Stout is. Well, Coach, whatever the reasons are, right now, the O Line stinks. Work some magic and improve them??

Trenches are definitely weaker. I still understand why they had to let Sweat and Williams go but Becton is someone they probably could have figured out a way to keep.

As far as Coach Stout...he's received a lot of accolades, deservedly so. But I do think he sometimes gets a tad overrated any more these days. It seems he needs players that are not considered "projects" when they come into the NFL. Dickerson and Jurgens were 2nd round picks for a reason. Becton did well but he was a 1st round pick for a reason and he played G for us so he "looked better". I think Jordan Mailata is the last real "project" that turned into a really solid starter for multiple years. Who else has he truly developed into a consistent/solid starter that was a 4th round pick or later? Jason Kelce? (players picked in rounds 1-3, especially IOL, should generally be viewed as players that should produce in the NFL). He used to be good at making late round picks or UDFAs be competent backups (i.e. Jack Driscoll, Nate Herbig)...but that seems to be in serious decline. Either Howie isn't giving him good enough talent to work with or Stout's losing his luster a little bit.

1 hour ago, Procus said:

We're missing Sweat and Williams on the defense, and Becton on the offense. Add in injuries to Dickerson and Johnson on the offense, and Carter on the defense. Not only is there a dropoff in starting talent, there's also a dropoff now in backup talent.

Eagles traditionally have built along both lines as the strength of the team. Both lines are weaker - considerably so - and it shows on the field. This is the number one reason why the team is not as strong this year.

D line is fine, Carter is a bit banged up but the D is still playing really well.

Replacing Becton with Steen isnt that big a drop off, the bigger drop off has been the other 4 regressing, namely Dickerson and Jurgens who have been awful, people keep telling me theyre hurt, yeah so what, that doesnt mean they dont suck its just a possible reason why they are stinking it up

Last year PFF had Mailata their top rated OT so far this year hes at 15th and after the last game where he played poorly that rating will most likely drop

Johnson has been fine but not dominant as in the past, his age is starting to show, add all that up and you get an O line that cant get any push in the run game and cant consistently pass pro, which makes for zero running lanes for barkley which is a problem on a run first team.

2 hours ago, Procus said:

We're missing Sweat and Williams on the defense, and Becton on the offense. Add in injuries to Dickerson and Johnson on the offense, and Carter on the defense. Not only is there a dropoff in starting talent, there's also a dropoff now in backup talent.

Eagles traditionally have built along both lines as the strength of the team. Both lines are weaker - considerably so - and it shows on the field. This is the number one reason why the team is not as strong this year.

Looks like someone read my post earlier.

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

Neither line is playing particularly well right now, and as they always say ... winning starts up front. On offense I think it is mostly injury related. Lane had to leave the last couple of games before yesterday with injuries, Dickerson also dealing with multiple injuries, leaving early yesterday ... Toth is no Dickerson. And Steen is no Becton. I think that is the biggest culprit for the running game not getting going more.

On defense Carter is no where near the beast he looked the last couple of seasons. Guessing that is partly due to offenses scheming to contain him more. But he has also been dealing with a shoulder injury that may be limiting him a bit. I do wonder how much is related to just him smelling himself after all the hype he got the past 2 years. Hunt has not built on a solid 2nd half of his rookie year. Pretty big dropoff from Williams to what we are seeing from Ojomo so far. The group as a whole is underwhelming (hence giving up 4.7 yards/rush on the year so far).

Just busting your stones bro. Fine minds ...

Hard to know if the guys will get healthier who are banged up if we don't know what's going on with any of them. Thanks to the Eagles for their Area 51 injury policy for that.

I've been expressing my concerns about Edge since March. You can make the case they lost 3 or of their 5 best pass rushers from last season. Sweat, Milton, BG. And they did very little to replace them. They tried to go cheap with upside to save money for future contracts, which is understandable, and so far it's burned them.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

Hard to know if the guys will get healthier who are banged up if we don't know what's going on with any of them. Thanks to the Eagles for their Area 51 injury policy for that.

I've been expressing my concerns about Edge since March. You can make the case they lost 3 or of their 5 best pass rushers from last season. Sweat, Milton, BG. And they did very little to replace them. They tried to go cheap with upside to save money for future contracts, which is understandable, and so far it's burned them.

The Eagles squeezed as much out of the cap as they could have to win a SB.

5 hours ago, Sack that QB said:

Hard to know if the guys will get healthier who are banged up if we don't know what's going on with any of them. Thanks to the Eagles for their Area 51 injury policy for that.

I've been expressing my concerns about Edge since March. You can make the case they lost 3 or of their 5 best pass rushers from last season. Sweat, Milton, BG. And they did very little to replace them. They tried to go cheap with upside to save money for future contracts, which is understandable, and so far it's burned them.

Prior to last season, as well as half the 2024 season, a majority of fans were concerned about Sweat. He was one of the punching bags. Williams really didn't do a whole lot in the regular season and Ojomo pretty much matched his pass rush win rate. Graham was a good versatile backup that could lineup all over the line, but he didn't play very many snaps. We used a 1st round pick on Jordan Davis, on Jalen Carter, on Nolan Smith, on Jihaad Campbell, and a 3rd rd pick on Jalyx Hunt in the last 4 drafts. How exactly is that "doing little to replace the high priced aging vets. Davis, Smith and Hunt were all known to be physically gifted projects that would require some developmental time. Smith was forced to play ahead of schedule because Reddick didn't want to honor the final year of his deal. Ojomo was a nice find on day 3 and made Williams and his 11.5 sacks over 4 years expendable.

Hunt, IMO, is like Nolan Smith. He's a very coachable player that is playing about a year ahead of schedule. I won't be surprised at all to see him starting to really establish himself by late season. Sometimes in the NFL, a team is going to need a guy to learn on the job. In Hunt's case, it's not because we simply ran out of bodies, but because he beat the competition in camp and earned the right to be out there.

The offensive line hasn't dropped off as much as people think. Becton was a weapon in the run game, and he isn't there anymore, but Steen is probably as good or better as a pass blocker. Injuries to Dickerson and Lane probably skew the numbers some. Jurgens might just be overrated.

But when you watch the games, Hurts usually still has a pretty clean pocket to throw from. A lot of the sacks have been on Hurts and Patullo.

The defensive line is a much bigger problem. We're too small on the edge and Davis is a big downgrade from Milton Williams as a pass rusher, which allows offenses to double Jalen Carter pretty much every snap. I think Vic's accepted the fact that he's going to have to blitz more this year and trust his corners. Quinyon's been very inconsistent to start the season which hasn't helped matters, but all told the defense is still playing at a pretty high level save for maybe the Rams game. The Denver game should have been over after they could only manage three points in their first eight drives, but obviously the offense was incompetent, punting four straight times in the second half with a chance to put it away

I am a little angry at Howie if I’m honest. Not so much with the OL because injuries happen. And sure depth could be better but a lot of NFL teams don’t have 5 good starters let alone depth. But the DL is 100% on Howie. To hope that Nolan Smith could continue his form from the second half of last year AND that Hunt could be a good full time starter in year 2 was always a huge gamble. He needed (and still could) to add to the DE position in the offseason. Same with the CB position where hoping Adoree Jackson or Kelee Ringo could be a competent starter was a flawed approach.

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I am a little angry at Howie if I’m honest. Not so much with the OL because injuries happen. And sure depth could be better but a lot of NFL teams don’t have 5 good starters let alone depth. But the DL is 100% on Howie. To hope that Nolan Smith could continue his form from the second half of last year AND that Hunt could be a good full time starter in year 2 was always a huge gamble. He needed (and still could) to add to the DE position in the offseason. Same with the CB position where hoping Adoree Jackson or Kelee Ringo could be a competent starter was a flawed approach.

There's only so much money to spread around. Eagles were playing with borrowed money last year, and the strategy paid off. This year and going forward, it'll be time to pay the piper.

On 10/6/2025 at 1:58 PM, time2rock said:

And yet there are 30 or so here that swear Hurts is getting great pass protection.

15 hours ago, Procus said:

There's only so much money to spread around. Eagles were playing with borrowed money last year, and the strategy paid off. This year and going forward, it'll be time to pay the piper.

Yeah I mean I get that and appreciate that. But I do think Howie made some interesting decisions in the offseason. I know it isn’t trench related but not paying Rodgers…

On 10/6/2025 at 10:47 AM, Utebird said:

D line is fine, Carter is a bit banged up but the D is still playing really well.

Replacing Becton with Steen isnt that big a drop off, the bigger drop off has been the other 4 regressing, namely Dickerson and Jurgens who have been awful, people keep telling me theyre hurt, yeah so what, that doesnt mean they dont suck its just a possible reason why they are stinking it up

Last year PFF had Mailata their top rated OT so far this year hes at 15th and after the last game where he played poorly that rating will most likely drop

Johnson has been fine but not dominant as in the past, his age is starting to show, add all that up and you get an O line that cant get any push in the run game and cant consistently pass pro, which makes for zero running lanes for barkley which is a problem on a run first team.

Mailata did have a bad game. The offensive line did regress. But so did the coaching staff. Patullo is not exactly calling great plays. And It is easy for the team to get demoralized when the players see but can not criticize the coaches. Brown is perfect example. With his face expressing it all. The defense will be alright, but the offense is disconcerning.

19 hours ago, Procus said:

There's only so much money to spread around. Eagles were playing with borrowed money last year, and the strategy paid off. This year and going forward, it'll be time to pay the piper.

I would have liked to retain Becton too. Chain reaction on the line when a player goes down now. Drop off in starting talent also translates into drop off into depth talent.

8 hours ago, Procus said:

I would have liked to retain Becton too. Chain reaction on the line when a player goes down now. Drop off in starting talent also translates into drop off into depth talent.

Why is everyone assumes that players are at fault? I will never understand this. I see a lot of bad coaching as the root of the problem. Head coach is a poor play caller and so is the OC. Defense is just fine if they are not on the field without a break. We have excellent QB, great Running back and awesome receivers, surely one of them is open to do some damage on any given play. Yet Denver 3 and outs screams that either players are in poor physical condition or they are demoralized.

The Eagles are doomed this season if the O-line doesn't get healthy. Even last year the passing game was a disaster. But the Eagles were able to minimize Jalen Hurts limited passing ability with a good run game.

1 hour ago, Traveler Vic said:

Why is everyone assumes that players are at fault? I will never understand this. I see a lot of bad coaching as the root of the problem. Head coach is a poor play caller and so is the OC. Defense is just fine if they are not on the field without a break. We have excellent QB, great Running back and awesome receivers, surely one of them is open to do some damage on any given play. Yet Denver 3 and outs screams that either players are in poor physical condition or they are demoralized.

Jalen Hurts is a very limited passer. Lets stop finding excuses else where for a reoccurring issue for the last 4 years. Holds the ball too long, indecisive, inconsistent accuracy, and very mid arm strength. Needs a simplified high school play book. All teams have to do is opt for zone coverage. The Broncos went from man to man in the 1st half to zone coverage like the Bucs do and we magically couldn't get anything going.. Thats a QB issue.

2 hours ago, Swimm said:

Jalen Hurts is a very limited passer. Lets stop finding excuses else where for a reoccurring issue for the last 4 years. Holds the ball too long, indecisive, inconsistent accuracy, and very mid arm strength. Needs a simplified high school play book. All teams have to do is opt for zone coverage. The Broncos went from man to man in the 1st half to zone coverage like the Bucs do and we magically couldn't get anything going.. Thats a QB issue.

You are proving my point. It is up to OC to adjust. Get Barkley and running game involved if they are playing zone. LB is not at the line of scrimmage. Instead of forcing Jalen to search the field.. Run! Forest Run! Our OC did not adjust. Players see it. Everyone can see it who knows a little about football. I am disappointed in Patullo as OC. And if they bring LB to the line, then you adjust and throw to open receiver. This is not that complicated for a professional OC. Of course a Yes man will always try to please the coach or the owner, by forcing a strategy instead of adjusting. Which to me what Patullo seems like. A Yes man for Siri.

5 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Why is everyone assumes that players are at fault? I will never understand this. I see a lot of bad coaching as the root of the problem. Head coach is a poor play caller and so is the OC. Defense is just fine if they are not on the field without a break. We have excellent QB, great Running back and awesome receivers, surely one of them is open to do some damage on any given play. Yet Denver 3 and outs screams that either players are in poor physical condition or they are demoralized.

There's a dropoff in talent on both lines this year. Half the OL is banged up. Becton is gone so Steen isn't that plug and play replacement you have in your hip pocket. DL down Williams, Sweat and Graham. Smith out. Injuries have taken a toll. But still a lot of season ahead.

Two of next three games are against the Giants, starting tomorrow nite. Nice 10 day break after that game to get ready to go to Minnesota. Back at home against NY. If Eagles can figure the next three games out more or less, they can be sitting good at the much needed bye.

2 hours ago, Procus said:

There's a dropoff in talent on both lines this year. Half the OL is banged up. Becton is gone so Steen isn't that plug and play replacement you have in your hip pocket. DL down Williams, Sweat and Graham. Smith out. Injuries have taken a toll. But still a lot of season ahead.

Two of next three games are against the Giants, starting tomorrow nite. Nice 10 day break after that game to get ready to go to Minnesota. Back at home against NY. If Eagles can figure the next three games out more or less, they can be sitting good at the much needed bye.

Eagles will definitely regroup for the next game. I disagree with you and most of the board that there is such a tremendous drop off in line talent. We will never be the same as the 2024 Eagles because that was once in a generation team. Right now we are better than average. Yes there are injuries but nothing catastrophic. Nothing that a good coach can not overcome. However late minute heroics can only get you so far and we very much need adjustments and better coaching on offense.

5 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

Eagles will definitely regroup for the next game. I disagree with you and most of the board that there is such a tremendous drop off in line talent. We will never be the same as the 2024 Eagles because that was once in a generation team. Right now we are better than average. Yes there are injuries but nothing catastrophic. Nothing that a good coach can not overcome. However late minute heroics can only get you so far and we very much need adjustments and better coaching on offense.

You seem to contradict yourself from the first bolded sentence to the very next.

If we go from being a "generation team' to "better than average" that does indeed point to a drop off in talent.

However, I do think we have enough talent on this team that we should be looking better than we have (not only in the loss last weekend but in the wins in the weeks leading up to it). Far too many stupid penalties, communication issues, and just overall mental mistakes for a team that just won it all to be making.

11 hours ago, Traveler Vic said:

You are proving my point. It is up to OC to adjust. Get Barkley and running game involved if they are playing zone. LB is not at the line of scrimmage. Instead of forcing Jalen to search the field.. Run! Forest Run! Our OC did not adjust. Players see it. Everyone can see it who knows a little about football. I am disappointed in Patullo as OC. And if they bring LB to the line, then you adjust and throw to open receiver. This is not that complicated for a professional OC. Of course a Yes man will always try to please the coach or the owner, by forcing a strategy instead of adjusting. Which to me what Patullo seems like. A Yes man for Siri.

hurts isn’t chained to the mic in the helmet.

he’s called his own game before.

the blame’s a two-way mirror—coaches and players both in the reflection.

the team’s got to figure it out before the glass cracks.