When the score was tied 16-16 and both defenses were playing great, it was up to which team can come up with more creative ways to move the ball.

And it was the Chargers who obviously won in that department, with those designed Herbert runs. The guy was a warrior today and their whole team deserved the win.

On the other hand, Hurts had to play hero ball to even have a chance to win. That amazing tight throw to Smith 2 plays before the int for example.

The most creative plays Patullo came up with today were those useless WR screens to Smith. Hurts had to do it all out there and came up short.

I’m a big Hurts fan and definitely he has taken some unfair criticism this year when others have been at fault (mostly the coaching staff). He’s also had to contend with a brutal schedule and some bad throwing conditions.

But last night he was really bad.

Sirianni has been an issue since the beginning. Every week he goes something that’s questionable. This week was no different. Instead of forcing them to use all their timeouts and hope to run out the clock with a game winning fg he passes it, two incompletions, time saved, Chargers tie it, win in ot. Rinse and repeat next week.

At some point the excuse making for Hurts has to stop. We went through this with Carson Wentz, too. There were and have been plays left on the field by Hurts all season. He is consistently not seeing open guys and he is indecisive whether cutting the ball loose or deciding to scramble.

It’s a shame that the NFL has changed so much that you risk losing a locker room for benching a QB that’s struggling. But that’s what needs to happen. Perhaps a little bit of humble pie and some time self scouting would do him some good. Don Shula benched Dan Marino after 3 picks against the Colts in 1989 and the locker room was fine and Marino played better afterwards. Heck, Belichick benched Brady FOUR times in his career and that seemed to work out well for both of them.

Hurts seems to be the fireman that’s the arsonist this season. He has to save the team from the mess he himself has made.

I think a lot of people really want to blame the coaches --- specifically for the offense we play. I still believe that all the things we see and maybe don't like about what the Eagles do and don't do offensively are a result of designing the scheme around what Jalen wants to do or is comfortable doing. I think last year proved that it can work. Over time, though, defenses come up with better gameplans to stop schemes. So it's important to evolve offensively and add elements to keep opposing defenses honest. So ... yeah ... I'm saying that their hands are tied with Jalen because this is his offense. If he doesn't play well, it's really ugly. Yesterday he was awful.

For some reason this year the Eagles had a winning formula that wasn't remarkable, but was effective. They decided to change the formula because of outside criticism and possibly internal grumbling. In the last 3 games we have attempted 113 passes (not counting sacks) and run 60 times (counting kneeling on the ball). That's over 65% passing. Hurts is much more efficient when you keep his passing attempts around 20-25 per game and run more than that. If he actually commits to his own runs, the Eagles' ground game is hard to stop.

Jalen's bad play was the main reason we lost last night and big part of why we lost to Chicago. He's not playing well and while some people are crying to bench him, I am not. He's in a funk and you can't pass your way out of a funk. The Eagles need to lean on their run game and defense, get back to winning and Jalen should eventually get back to being an efficient passer.

There's no excuse for Jalen last night. He was bad and he was the main reason we lost, but I do blame coaching for not getting it done at the end of the 4th. I wasn't on the fire KP bandwagon until this game. I don't care if the Eagles shockingly get it together and make a SB run, I would probably still want him gone

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

Jalen's bad play was the main reason we lost last night and big part of why we lost to Chicago. He's not playing well and while some people are crying to bench him, I am not. He's in a funk and you can't pass your way out of a funk. The Eagles need to lean on their run game and defense, get back to winning and Jalen should eventually get back to being an efficient passer.

He wasn't the reason we lost to Chicago, lol. I admit he had 2 poor turnovers, but the offense had no run game and the defense was atrocious. I mean, the TOP was 40 to 20!

Just now, MF POON said:

There's no excuse for Jalen last night. He was bad and he was the main reason we lost, but I do blame coaching for not getting it done at the end of the 4th. I wasn't on the fire KP bandwagon until this game. I don't care if the Eagles shockingly get it together and make a SB run, I would probably still want him gone

He wasn't the reason we lost to Chicago, lol. I admit he had 2 poor turnovers, but the offense had no run game and the defense was atrocious. I mean, the TOP was 40 to 20!

Barkley only had 13 carries and managed 56 yards. Hurts passed 34 times. I said "big part" about the Chicago game. This team isn't designed to pass on a 2:1 ratio. 2 turnovers isn't as bad as 5 turnovers, but it's pretty bad for Jalen who had been doing a great job protecting the ball before the Chicago game.

Hurts is the problem. Dude needs to be benched.

I agree. Hurts can be blame for some part but the coaching staff is responsible. On the last drive you are in the red zone with some time. You try to run and to eat some clock. Why rushing things and throwing a pass particulary when your qb has a bad day ? That's the difference between those Eagles and Kellen Moore Eagles

It's both.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Barkley only had 13 carries and managed 56 yards. Hurts passed 34 times. I said "big part" about the Chicago game. This team isn't designed to pass on a 2:1 ratio. 2 turnovers isn't as bad as 5 turnovers, but it's pretty bad for Jalen who had been doing a great job protecting the ball before the Chicago game.

Yeah, he passed 34 times, but a number of those throws were due to us trying to come back to win. Caleb had 36 throws himself for 150 yds, and that was with each of his RB's going for over 100 yds. That should tell you exactly how much they dominated the TOP for that game, as they ran 34 more plays than us. Jalen's 2 turnovers were bad, but it was 2-1 in regard to turnovers as Caleb also threw an INT. The biggest issues were us simply not being able to run the ball and mostly, the defense giving up 281 rushing yards. Their inability to get off the field on 3rd downs and not prevent each RB going for 6-12 yards a carry, are what really lost us that game.

Jalen is a very good QB he does a lot of good things as a QB. But, he is clearly not a wco QB. Nick's offense isn't necessarily a wco. I just think to get the maximum out of the talent, they need a WCO QB.

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

I think a lot of people really want to blame the coaches --- specifically for the offense we play. I still believe that all the things we see and maybe don't like about what the Eagles do and don't do offensively are a result of designing the scheme around what Jalen wants to do or is comfortable doing. I think last year proved that it can work. Over time, though, defenses come up with better gameplans to stop schemes. So it's important to evolve offensively and add elements to keep opposing defenses honest. So ... yeah ... I'm saying that their hands are tied with Jalen because this is his offense. If he doesn't play well, it's really ugly. Yesterday he was awful.

For some reason this year the Eagles had a winning formula that wasn't remarkable, but was effective. They decided to change the formula because of outside criticism and possibly internal grumbling. In the last 3 games we have attempted 113 passes (not counting sacks) and run 60 times (counting kneeling on the ball). That's over 65% passing. Hurts is much more efficient when you keep his passing attempts around 20-25 per game and run more than that. If he actually commits to his own runs, the Eagles' ground game is hard to stop.

Jalen's bad play was the main reason we lost last night and big part of why we lost to Chicago. He's not playing well and while some people are crying to bench him, I am not. He's in a funk and you can't pass your way out of a funk. The Eagles need to lean on their run game and defense, get back to winning and Jalen should eventually get back to being an efficient passer.

I agree with everything you said, except the last sentence. I mean, I agree with that in theory, I just don't think they can do that. It's been obvious all year they can't run the ball and that's not gonna change. So, they have to do something different...which is what we are seeing. No run game = bad Jalen.

That said, if they would combine better routes for the receivers (I thought they had some good design routes last night with more in the middle patterns) along with involving Bigsby more and more rhythmic play calling with when to infuse the run game, they could be better. But, we just aren't gonna see it this year.

Over the course of the season? Yeah Hurts is a problem but he isn't the biggest problem. Would I bench him? Yes at this point I would but only by taking this season in isolation to try and salvage something from this wreck. Having said that benching him will almost certainly lead to us having to trade him in the offseason so the reality is we can't bench him without long term repercussions and so benching him isn't a truly viable option.

The offensive scheme stinks. The play calling stinks. And the OL this year has been banged up and therefore has stunk. Its hard to be good and its hard to be consistent when the offense keeps on shooting itself in the foot. Its hard to be good and its hard to be consistent when the play calling is all over the place and there is no balance or rhythm. And so whilst I think Hurts was the biggest problem in the game yesterday there are mitigating circumstances and over the course of this year he hasn't been the biggest problem. But I do think there needs to be a decision made over Hurts in the coming months / years. Because at some point in the future the team is going to have to invest cap space in to the defense and so he isn't going to have the same weapons around him. Can he carry the team more? Can he elevate those around him? I am not sure he can but that is what this team is going to need to decide.

Agreed, sirianna is probably the most overrated coach in the nfl

Jalen was horrible in this game. Not to take blame off the coaches, but Jalen has been progressively getting worse for weeks and now he’s turning the ball over consistently. The team has pretty much given up on the run and someone has pulled the RPO action from the offense. If Jalen wants to take his legs from himself then he better improve greatly on his passing skills. Throwing the ball 40 plus times with any quarterback is a foolish endeavor, but doing that with Jalen is a killer.

5 hours ago, VeeMak said:

At some point the excuse making for Hurts has to stop. We went through this with Carson Wentz, too. There were and have been plays left on the field by Hurts all season. He is consistently not seeing open guys and he is indecisive whether cutting the ball loose or deciding to scramble.

It’s a shame that the NFL has changed so much that you risk losing a locker room for benching a QB that’s struggling. But that’s what needs to happen. Perhaps a little bit of humble pie and some time self scouting would do him some good. Don Shula benched Dan Marino after 3 picks against the Colts in 1989 and the locker room was fine and Marino played better afterwards. Heck, Belichick benched Brady FOUR times in his career and that seemed to work out well for both of them.

Hurts seems to be the fireman that’s the arsonist this season. He has to save the team from the mess he himself has made.

Let's not forget when McNabb was benched in Baltimore (I think)....he played fine for the rest of the season, if I am remembering correctly....

well Hurts doesn't want to run it anymore...Herbert ran with a broken freak"in hand..pulled the RPO and took off, too try to win. Like Aikman was saying last night and others have said throughout the year Jalen is missing

open receivers especially the easy drop off right in the middle. Jaws pointed out how he's not getting rid of the ball on time.. I still think KP needs to go but Jalen needs to take over 50% of the blame.

46 minutes ago, Breeze 44 said:

well Hurts doesn't want to run it anymore...Herbert ran with a broken freak"in hand..pulled the RPO and took off, too try to win. Like Aikman was saying last night and others have said throughout the year Jalen is missing

open receivers especially the easy drop off right in the middle. Jaws pointed out how he's not getting rid of the ball on time.. I still think KP needs to go but Jalen needs to take over 50% of the blame.

Agreed. I have been defending him the past few years but his flaws are glaringly bad and the entire world can see it....I think alot of people are still wanting to give him a pass because of winning the Superbowl but when exactly are his issues going to be addressed? He is who he has always been and thats been an RPO running style quarterback...

What's uncanny about this is I remember McNabb wanted to stop being known as a running QB and wanted to prove he could be a pocket passer....and I remember the result of that.....

2 hours ago, EaglesAddict said:

I agree with everything you said, except the last sentence. I mean, I agree with that in theory, I just don't think they can do that. It's been obvious all year they can't run the ball and that's not gonna change. So, they have to do something different...which is what we are seeing. No run game = bad Jalen.

That said, if they would combine better routes for the receivers (I thought they had some good design routes last night with more in the middle patterns) along with involving Bigsby more and more rhythmic play calling with when to infuse the run game, they could be better. But, we just aren't gonna see it this year.

To be fair, no run game usually = poor QB play. Just look at Mahomes this year. He leads his team in rushing and the Chief's will probably not make the playoffs. He's also having his worst year statistically and just had his worst game ever as a pro. I sort of disagree with you because I think this team can run the ball well, but the plays they run have to play to the OL's strength. SB shouldn't keep running inside handoffs when it's been proven to not be effective all season long.

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Jalen was horrible in this game. Not to take blame off the coaches, but Jalen has been progressively getting worse for weeks and now he’s turning the ball over consistently. The team has pretty much given up on the run and someone has pulled the RPO action from the offense. If Jalen wants to take his legs from himself then he better improve greatly on his passing skills. Throwing the ball 40 plus times with any quarterback is a foolish endeavor, but doing that with Jalen is a killer.

Agreed, he was horrible, but I only see him as being truly awful in this past game (and he was pretty bad in the one loss to the Giants). The Chicago game I felt he played OK enough to win IF our defense had shown up. Also, Hurts was number one in the league going into last night's game for TD/INT ratio, so it's not like he had been turning the ball over that much (even when you include the fumbles). Lastly, I don't think Jalen throwing a lot is that much of a concern - I think he's a solid passer, but he was clearly pressing last night. In regard to Jalen running, I don't mind him not wanting to run as much because I honestly had been asking for less runs from him 2 seasons ago. When you have Saquon and Tank in the backfield, with a supposedly great OL, your QB shouldn't need to scramble/run often.

Big picture - nothing we can do about Hurts, he is our QB and will be next year. He has shown that he can be the guy, I believe in him, he just needs great coaching, which shouldn't have been an issue for our FO to figure out and it should have been handled differently rather than promoting Patullo.

Now Sirianni, I don't know how much or how long players remain bought in to his philosophy. What a weird situation to coach for a team that picks the coordinators for you and you really have ZERO say - yea he has 2 SB appearances and 1 victory, but what happens when Howie and Lurie force his hand after this year and he is not a fan of it? Patullo is gone after this season, and others on the offensive staff (Moorehead)

Just when you think that its great to have been to the SB twice in three years, also think about potentially having two complete collapses in two out of three years that happened within your "winning window", with a loaded offensive roster.

When you realize that Herbert barely competed any big passes last night..his one big completion was spotting the open guy who ran for 60 yac and he did more with his legs than his arm...and somehow they won the game..how can it not be a coaching issue?

7 minutes ago, Maga301 said:

Big picture - nothing we can do about Hurts, he is our QB and will be next year. He has shown that he can be the guy, I believe in him, he just needs great coaching, which shouldn't have been an issue for our FO to figure out and it should have been handled differently rather than promoting Patullo.

Now Sirianni, I don't know how much or how long players remain bought in to his philosophy. What a weird situation to coach for a team that picks the coordinators for you and you really have ZERO say - yea he has 2 SB appearances and 1 victory, but what happens when Howie and Lurie force his hand after this year and he is not a fan of it? Patullo is gone after this season, and others on the offensive staff (Moorehead)

Just when you think that its great to have been to the SB twice in three years, also think about potentially having two complete collapses in two out of three years that happened within your "winning window", with a loaded offensive roster.

Yeah, I can see Nick leaving sooner rather than later. Sad thing is, I think we'll never really get a long term solution at HC again with the FO's current model for success.

15 minutes ago, MF POON said:

To be fair, no run game usually = poor QB play. Just look at Mahomes this year. He leads his team in rushing and the Chief's will probably not make the playoffs. He's also having his worst year statistically and just had his worst game ever as a pro. I sort of disagree with you because I think this team can run the ball well, but the plays they run have to play to the OL's strength. SB shouldn't keep running inside handoffs when it's been proven to not be effective all season long.

Agreed, he was horrible, but I only see him as being truly awful in this past game (and he was pretty bad in the one loss to the Giants). The Chicago game I felt he played OK enough to win IF our defense had shown up. Also, Hurts was number one in the league going into last night's game for TD/INT ratio, so it's not like he had been turning the ball over that much (even when you include the fumbles). Lastly, I don't think Jalen throwing a lot is that much of a concern - I think he's a solid passer, but he was clearly pressing last night. In regard to Jalen running, I don't mind him not wanting to run as much because I honestly had been asking for less runs from him 2 seasons ago. When you have Saquon and Tank in the backfield, with a supposedly great OL, your QB shouldn't need to scramble/run often.

It’s not like Herbert has an elite offensive line. He was out there with one hand doing whatever it took for him to get the win. Our guy just chooses not to run, and anytime a quarterback is throwing the ball 40 plus times you are probably looking at a team way behind. Jalen’s turnover ratio is low because his pass attempts tend to be low.

4 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

It's both.