Note: This is obviously a total non-starter both in here and in reality due to "reasons" and our sheety us vs. them divided reality. Flame on for everyone to blast me in here. Fire away!

The idea is to get back to bi-partisan problem solving when that is available and makes sense (not a general solution with MAGA around). Combining the DHS funding requirements from the Dems together with the voting reform suggestion from the Repubs into one act called the "SAVE ICE" act (or whatever catchy name you want to give it). Current proposals for both need some serious updates but with some smart changes I'm quite sure you could get the majority of voters to back it. This ain't rocket science but today's positions are entirely political trope based imo.

The SAVE suggestion needs a wider mechanism to be able to register and also a clear description of how to make it easy and very cheap (or free) to get an approved ID or manner to prove citizenship. We can't require a birth certificate for example to be able to register. Naturally, there is no perfect solution if we don't want to centralize everything but there could be a solution that connects SS# and an online national service that States can use to determine citizenry for individuals given a SS# and full name. That would allow States to include the parameter of citizenship when they register individuals without the Feds knowing who is ultimately registered but also give the States a way to determine citizenship without the need for a passport or birth certificate. btw - Funny how the Repubs back SAVE with an option to use a birth certificate as proof yet also back changing birth rights citizenship.

The ICE reforms need to be tweaked a bit IMHO to tighten the restrictions on sensitive locations. For example, what does the term "near" mean? Also, it needs to be a definitive list and can't end with "etc.". Perhaps there are a few other tweaks but most of the other items in the list are straight forward.

Discuss...

---

Here are the current summaries:

SAVE

Key Provisions

• Proof of Citizenship: Amends the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 (NVRA) to require states to collect physical documents—such as a U.S. passport, birth certificate, or naturalization papers—when an individual registers or updates their registration.

• In-Person Requirement: Specifies that those registering by mail must present their documents in person to an election official before the deadline, effectively ending standard mail-in registration.

• Voter Roll Purges: Mandates that states conduct ongoing list maintenance to identify and remove non-citizens from existing voter rolls using federal and state databases.

• Penalties for Officials: Establishes criminal penalties (up to five years in prison) and a private right of action for lawsuits against election officials who register applicants without the required documentation.

• Failsafe Process: Directs states to create an alternative process for those lacking documents to prove citizenship through other evidence and signed affidavits, though critics call this process vague.

ICE (DHS) reforms

I won’t rest until every citizen is a member of ICE

8 minutes ago, paco said:

I won’t rest until every citizen is a member of ICE

I wouldn't go anywhere near a mushroom house if I looked like you

It can't be saved or redeemed. It is a secret police force loyal to one man. You can't reform the gestapo to make them a force for good.

39 minutes ago, Gannan said:

It can't be saved or redeemed. It is a secret police force loyal to one man. You can't reform the gestapo to make them a force for good.

No but you can neuter them or at least take away a bunch of their weapons. Or you can just do nothing.

3 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

I wouldn't go anywhere near a mushroom house if I looked like you

Because I’m so handsome?

18 minutes ago, paco said:

Because I’m so handsome?

Go with that if it makes you feel better

Dems hold the cards. Easiest way to abolish ICE is not to fund it. I don’t see agents going to work if they’re not getting a pay check.

1 minute ago, Talkingbirds said:

Dems hold the cards. Easiest way to abolish ICE is not to fund it. I don’t see agents going to work if they’re not getting a pay check.

So..... Why don't they do that?

I'm with Gannan. It's beyond saving. You can't reform a group that has engaged in this much abuse of power. Burn it down. Prosecute the people who ignored federal orders or skirted citizen's constitutional rights. Make them a clear example. Then make a new branch to take its place but this time with actual oversight run by adults.

I've seen videos of ICE agents, on camera saying they are allowed to shoot people with complete immunity. In many cases these are the same people who assaulted the capitol on Jan 6th. They cannot and should not be saved. They should be held accountable for their crimes.

1 hour ago, Talkingbirds said:

Dems hold the cards. Easiest way to abolish ICE is not to fund it. I don’t see agents going to work if they’re not getting a pay check.

Already funded via the Big Ugly Bill. This one is just like the small add on. They don't need it and if they did they'd just take it from some spot like the DoD budget. They can move sheet around and play the legal game if they need to run out the clock on anything that comes to the justice system as a result.

38 minutes ago, Gannan said:

I've seen videos of ICE agents, on camera saying they are allowed to shoot people with complete immunity. In many cases these are the same people who assaulted the capitol on Jan 6th. They cannot and should not be saved. They should be held accountable for their crimes.

Of course. That will come. Need to win in November first and somehow stop Trump from just not accepting the results. No win in November and there's no justice. In the meantime, defang them to whatever degree available so they create as little damage as possible. Go out and start promoting jailing these thugs once Trump is gone and the Dems win. Put some fear into them as well. Continue the strategy of peaceful but on the edge (and sometimes slightly over) protests. That part is winning the latest rounds of public opinion. Work it.

38 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Already funded via the Big Ugly Bill. This one is just like the small add on. They don't need it and if they did they'd just take it from some spot like the DoD budget. They can move sheet around and play the legal game if they need to run out the clock on anything that comes to the justice system as a result.

So what’s the whole holding up the DHS funding by Dems ? Political ammunition ?

11 minutes ago, Talkingbirds said:

So what’s the whole holding up the DHS funding by Dems ? Political ammunition ?

Thats it. Of course the WH still wants the money. It isn’t nothing. I think it is about 25% if add both together. They already have $190B from the BBB. That seems like something they can live on especially when they know they can always move other stuff around if necessary.

Nah both ICE and CBP as programs need to be cut.

Turn ICE into an administrative agency.

The border can be done by multi-state NG volunteers who can volunteer for as many tours as they’d like.

TBH even without the ICE nonsense, I would reform all federal LE anyway. DHS gets renamed to Department of Law Enforcement with three agencies: the FBI (and roll every investigations agency into them), a Federal Police force for national parks, forests, federal land, and the Federal Protective Service for site security. The only outlier I can potentially think of is either keep the US Marshall Service with Justice or just give them to SCOTUS and let them be the courts thing.

1 minute ago, Bill said:

Nah both ICE and CBP as programs need to be cut.

Turn ICE into an administrative agency.

The border can be done by multi-state NG volunteers who can volunteer for as many tours as they’d like.

TBH even without the ICE nonsense, I would reform all federal LE anyway. DHS gets renamed to Department of Law Enforcement with three agencies: the FBI (and roll every investigations agency into them), a Federal Police force for national parks, forests, federal land, and the Federal Protective Service for site security. The only outlier I can potentially think of is either keep the US Marshall Service with Justice or just give them to SCOTUS and let them be the courts thing.

I’m talking about what can be done now. ICE isn’t going anywhere at this point.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I’m talking about what can be done now. ICE isn’t going anywhere at this point.

So am I.

They need to go.

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

So am I.

They need to go.

Don’t know what to tell you man. They aren’t going anywhere for the next three years. Need to cut them off at the knees for now.

49 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Don’t know what to tell you man. They aren’t going anywhere for the next three years. Need to cut them off at the knees for now.

Then the people can enjoy the consequences of their actions.

34 minutes ago, Bill said:

Then the people can enjoy the consequences of their actions.

When they don’t follow the law and when they don’t abide by the decisions of the judicial branch it goes well beyond that.

19 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

When they don’t follow the law and when they don’t abide by the decisions of the judicial branch it goes well beyond that.

I have sympathy for my fellow man's misfortune; I do not have sympathy for my fellow man's hubris.

43 minutes ago, Bill said:

I have sympathy for my fellow man's misfortune; I do not have sympathy for my fellow man's hubris.

You can help one without giving in to the other

Just delete this hot garbage

2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

You can help one without giving in to the other

Are you asking if we'd rather have a neutered ICE than what it is now? Or are you asking what the actual solution to this bullsheet is?

Like, given the choice I'd have revoked Dahmer's bath-house membership, but that's not exactly getting to the root of the problem is it?