February 17, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, mayanh8 said: It's not that simple. Consumer energy plans get complex down here with how they handle rate schedules of peak and off-peak hours. Energy LEC's will advertise super low rates of like 5 cents per kW but in order to average a low rate you have to be religious about how and when you use electricity. Nobody lives their life like that which is why we still average about 11 cents per kW. We have peak pricing plans here like that too but you have to opt-in to them.
February 17, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, vikas83 said: It would be like if an earthquake hit NYC and people wanted to cry that NYC buildings didn't have the same safeguards as LA buildings. Why the hell would they? Not exactly because this is a predictable result of climate change. It's not just a rise in avg. temperatures but also an increase in the frequency and extremity of extreme weather events.
February 17, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I mean, it's not that complicated. It's not the Green New Deal -- sorry conservatives. And it's not de-regulation -- sorry liberals. It's because it's really friggin cold, and the grid, generation and transmission systems weren't set up to operate in these temperatures. Why? Because it makes no sense from an ROIC perspective since it has never been this cold in Texas before. Sometimes things happen. Stop looking for someone to blame for everything. It would be like if an earthquake hit NYC and people wanted to cry that NYC buildings didn't have the same safeguards as LA buildings. Why the hell would they? We must blame each other when natural disasters happen otherwise how do we get votes from stupid people.
February 17, 20214 yr https://poweroutage.us/area/state/texas Very telling. The TX panhandle isn't on the ERCOT grid.
February 17, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said: Even if we believe your unnamed sources of reports, adding the cost of whatever kind of installation is required to provide power during an ice storm almost certainly makes the prices go up. Also makes sure you are counting the cost of taxes for providing this regulation. I posted a source in the next post.
February 17, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Not exactly because this is a predictable result of climate change. It's not just a rise in avg. temperatures but also an increase in the frequency and extremity of extreme weather events. 26 minutes ago, vikas83 said: If you want to argue that they should retrofit now, based on climate change, that's a productive debate to have. But running around and blaming the Green New Deal and de-regulation is just idiotic. There was no reason back when most of these plants were built to prepare for weather like this. It annoys the crap out of me how everyone wants to try and assign blame as opposed to trying to find solutions to simple problems. Reading...it's fundamental. Climate change wasn't a thing when most of these facilities were built, FFS.
February 17, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Climate change wasn't a thing when most of these facilities were built, FFS. It's been a thing for over 30 years now, it's just that no one was listening. It doesn't matter when the facilities were built, they've had plenty of time to upgrade them.
February 17, 20214 yr I like that since Dave started this thread, it's verified with a blue checkmark.
February 17, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: It's been a thing for over 30 years now, it's just that no one was listening. It doesn't matter when the facilities were built, they've had plenty of time to upgrade them. I think it was global cooling that was the problem 30 years ago
February 17, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I mean, it's not that complicated. It's not the Green New Deal -- sorry conservatives. And it's not de-regulation -- sorry liberals. It's because it's really friggin cold, and the grid, generation and transmission systems weren't set up to operate in these temperatures. Why? Because it makes no sense from an ROIC perspective since it has never been this cold in Texas before. Sometimes things happen. Stop looking for someone to blame for everything. It would be like if an earthquake hit NYC and people wanted to cry that NYC buildings didn't have the same safeguards as LA buildings. Why the hell would they? It's true. It's too cold for the Texas grid to function. It wasn't designed to deal with cold winters like this. That's the problem right now. But here's the difference: If an earthquake hit NYC and a bunch of buildings were damaged, they would likely enact building codes to safeguard against any further earthquakes because the building codes are regulated. Texas will likely shrug their shoulders at the cold, continue down the same de-regulated path. So during the next harsh winter they will continue to suffer as they are now. They won't expand capacity to produce extra power because these new plants would sit idle until they are needed. Producers must compete for customers, idle plants increase costs, so they don't make sense when profit is the motive. Perhaps Texas could update building codes to better insulate against extreme weather, putting less strain on the system... But they probably don't do that either because it's Texas. Also, wholesale energy prices have skyrocketed due to the extra demand, so Texans will be paying for this later. When there's a problem, some folks want to look for solutions. I have no faith Texas wants to fix the problem they are facing now.
February 17, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: It's been a thing for over 30 years now, it's just that no one was listening. It doesn't matter when the facilities were built, they've had plenty of time to upgrade them. Yeah, and I remember all those smart politicians who brought up the risk in the TX power grid from a once in a century cold snap. They just kept bringing it up and those greedy companies just ignored them while making billions (despite filing for bankruptcy multiple times...). Give it a rest. There is no viable reason to make capital investments for something that hasn't happened in a century. None. If the government wants to mandate the upgrades, then they need to mandate them. No responsible steward of capital is going to invest billions for something this rare.
February 17, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Give it a rest. There is no viable reason to make capital investments for something that hasn't happened in a century. None. If the government wants to mandate the upgrades, then they need to mandate them. No responsible steward of capital is going to invest billions for something this rare. Well, that's part of the problem. These politicians would resist any such thing as an encroachment on the free market, but then they'll come begging for federal assistance when an inevitable disaster occurs.
February 17, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: It's true. It's too cold for the Texas grid to function. It wasn't designed to deal with cold winters like this. That's the problem right now. But here's the difference: If an earthquake hit NYC and a bunch of buildings were damaged, they would likely enact building codes to safeguard against any further earthquakes because the building codes are regulated. Texas will likely shrug their shoulders at the cold, continue down the same de-regulated path. So during the next harsh winter they will continue to suffer as they are now. They won't expand capacity to produce extra power because these new plants would sit idle until they are needed. Producers must compete for customers, idle plants increase costs, so they don't make sense when profit is the motive. Perhaps Texas could update building codes to better insulate against extreme weather, putting less strain on the system... But they probably don't do that either because it's Texas. Also, wholesale energy prices have skyrocketed due to the extra demand, so Texans will be paying for this later. When there's a problem, some folks want to look for solutions. I have no faith Texas wants to fix the problem they are facing now. So...let's break this down. First, deregulation has to do with pricing and competition, not regulations on how systems are built and maintained. That's on the state and regulators. If they want to enact rules to force upgrades, they can. That has nothing to do with a competitive market for pricing, which is what Texas has a deregulated market. In a regulated market like CA, rates are set by the regulators based on cost plus a guaranteed margin. So when costs go up (for things like this retrofit for cold weather), the regulators increase rates to offset that. That doesn't happen in TX -- there is no guaranteed margin. Second, there are more peaker plants in Texas than almost anywhere else. Because the market is deregulated, they are rarely in use because they don't want to produce energy that isn't needed. They produce when needed, like in extreme heat when air conditioners are running. But...they are very difficult to start up when it is friggin freezing. There is an actual simple solution. ERCOT mandates that all plants upgrade for cold weather, and allows a fee to be added to bills to offset the costs in order to justify the investment. But that is logical, and this is Texas, so...
February 17, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Well, that's part of the problem. These politicians would resist any such thing as an encroachment on the free market, but then they'll come begging for federal assistance when an inevitable disaster occurs. Do you go begging to your homeowners insurance when a flood comes?
February 17, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: It's been a thing for over 30 years now, it's just that no one was listening. It doesn't matter when the facilities were built, they've had plenty of time to upgrade them. Put down the hammer. This isnt a nail.
February 17, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Well, that's part of the problem. These politicians would resist any such thing as an encroachment on the free market, but then they'll come begging for federal assistance when an inevitable disaster occurs. You dont design to the outlier events you manage through them and try to not fall into the trap of making those steps permanent. which we always fall into that trap
February 17, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, toolg said: It's true. It's too cold for the Texas grid to function. It wasn't designed to deal with cold winters like this. That's the problem right now. But here's the difference: If an earthquake hit NYC and a bunch of buildings were damaged, they would likely enact building codes to safeguard against any further earthquakes because the building codes are regulated. Texas will likely shrug their shoulders at the cold, continue down the same de-regulated path. So during the next harsh winter they will continue to suffer as they are now. They won't expand capacity to produce extra power because these new plants would sit idle until they are needed. Producers must compete for customers, idle plants increase costs, so they don't make sense when profit is the motive. Perhaps Texas could update building codes to better insulate against extreme weather, putting less strain on the system... But they probably don't do that either because it's Texas. Also, wholesale energy prices have skyrocketed due to the extra demand, so Texans will be paying for this later. When there's a problem, some folks want to look for solutions. I have no faith Texas wants to fix the problem they are facing now. People like you ARE the problem
February 17, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, vikas83 said: So...let's break this down. First, deregulation has to do with pricing and competition, not regulations on how systems are built and maintained. That's on the state and regulators. If they want to enact rules to force upgrades, they can. That has nothing to do with a competitive market for pricing, which is what Texas has a deregulated market. In a regulated market like CA, rates are set by the regulators based on cost plus a guaranteed margin. So when costs go up (for things like this retrofit for cold weather), the regulators increase rates to offset that. That doesn't happen in TX -- there is no guaranteed margin. Second, there are more peaker plants in Texas than almost anywhere else. Because the market is deregulated, they are rarely in use because they don't want to produce energy that isn't needed. They produce when needed, like in extreme heat when air conditioners are running. But...they are very difficult to start up when it is friggin freezing. There is an actual simple solution. ERCOT mandates that all plants upgrade for cold weather, and allows a fee to be added to bills to offset the costs in order to justify the investment. But that is logical, and this is Texas, so... BUT THEN THE CONSUMER EATS THE COST!!! THAT'S NOT FAIR!! I DEMAND A STATE OF THE ART GRID THAT CAN SURVIVE TEMPS UP TO -100F FOR NO ADDITIONAL COST TO CONSUMERS!!!
February 17, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, vikas83 said: But that is logical, and this is Texas, so... Exactly right.
February 17, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, rambo said: BUT THEN THE CONSUMER EATS THE COST!!! THAT'S NOT FAIR!! I DEMAND A STATE OF THE ART GRID THAT CAN SURVIVE TEMPS UP TO -100F FOR NO ADDITIONAL COST TO CONSUMERS!!! What about when the sun is in its dying days and expands past earths orbit? We should probably plan for that.
February 17, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: People like you ARE the problem People like you like to freeze, I am guessing.
February 17, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, paco said: What about when the sun is in its dying days and expands past earths orbit? We should probably plan for that. Ridiculous. That won't happen for a billion years. Texas will experience millions of winters like this before the sun dies... I think they should plan for something they could face again.
February 17, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, paco said: What about when the sun is in its dying days and expands past earths orbit? We should probably plan for that. moron, the earth is flat and the sun revolves around us. jellybean head.
February 17, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, paco said: What about when the sun is in its dying days and expands past earths orbit? We should probably plan for that. LOL. Look at this idiot. Thinks the earth orbits the sun. Probably thinks it's round, too. What a maroon!
February 17, 20214 yr This really can't be stated enough and is the response when Trump supporters point out that Obama/Biden/literally any other President is anywhere near as divisive as Trump.
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