19 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

No one

 

Right. No doubt you can afford the very best of blinders. Cinch 'em tight, TJ!

54 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The issue historically hasn't been so much whether they're taught, but HOW they're taught.

Many school districts in the south for example do not emphasize slavery as the primary cause of the civil war, despite the fact that virtually every issue that is commonly dropped in as a substitute is directly related to slavery, and that the articles of secession drawn up by southern states all listed the institution of slavery as the driving force.

This is not a new issue. We've had arguments with people on this very board with some who don't see slavery as the main cause of the Civil War. 

We will continue to struggle to maintain ourselves as one nation United by the founding principles of the republic if we have regions of the nation viewing our history with a totally different set of facts.

Agree with the nuance but what you describe isn’t what this current round is about. 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

No one

 

10 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Agree with the nuance but what you describe isn’t what this current round is about. 

The FUD has obscured whatever this "round" is about. But the practical reality is that regardless of what this Texas law will do there is a heavy amount of whitewashing that goes on in the school districts of certain regions. 

And any effort, be it local/state/federal, to reform the curriculum in such a way that it would give better context around how we got to where we are in 2021 is met with calls of derision and rejection by not only local politicians but many citizens - because they too have been given a whitewashed history of the nation. CRT is just the latest rallying cry in the battle over what is taught to the next generation in regards to our nation's history.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The issue historically hasn't been so much whether they're taught, but HOW they're taught.

Many school districts in the south for example do not emphasize slavery as the primary cause of the civil war, despite the fact that virtually every issue that is commonly dropped in as a substitute is directly related to slavery, and that the articles of secession drawn up by southern states all listed the institution of slavery as the driving force.

This is not a new issue. We've had arguments with people on this very board with some who don't see slavery as the main cause of the Civil War. 

We will continue to struggle to maintain ourselves as one nation United by the founding principles of the republic if we have regions of the nation viewing our history with a totally different set of facts.

Your opinion isnt fact

12 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Your opinion isnt fact

Uh, it's not an opinion. It's factual. It's been a point of contention on this very board. 

33 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The FUD has obscured whatever this "round" is about. But the practical reality is that regardless of what this Texas law will do there is a heavy amount of whitewashing that goes on in the school districts of certain regions. 

And any effort, be it local/state/federal, to reform the curriculum in such a way that it would give better context around how we got to where we are in 2021 is met with calls of derision and rejection by not only local politicians but many citizens - because they too have been given a whitewashed history of the nation. CRT is just the latest rallying cry in the battle over what is taught to the next generation in regards to our nation's history.

I think you are glossing over the nuances in the way that many schools these days are beginning to teach the subject.  They aren't merely emphasizing the importance of slavery in the history of the US or why the civil war took place which they absolutely should be doing 100%.  Rather, they are also engaging in teachings that include things like splitting school children into working groups based on "oppressed" vs. "oppressor" or simply "black/brown" and "white" for instructional sessions.  At first it was easy to waive these incidents off as a one off but we've seen too many examples now from private schools in Manhattan to public school districts outside DC, etc. to just poo poo this one.  Let's clean it up so that there isn't a heavy whitewashing going on but let's not tell eight year olds they are racist because their skin is pale colored.  At minimum, how about the left and the key national and state educational organizations make it clear thru unambiguous repeated public statements that their intention is to clearly and honestly teach all those topics that Moss rattled off a page or two back AND at the same time make it clear that they aren't going to go into woke overdrive.  All I'm seeing so far is groups like the National Education Association pledging to teach the more radical measures only to have to remove those pledges from their websites (at best) and then try to ignore the topic.

3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I think you are glossing over the nuances in the way that many schools these days are beginning to teach the subject.  They aren't merely emphasizing the importance of slavery in the history of the US or why the civil war took place which they absolutely should be doing 100%.  Rather, they are also engaging in teachings that include things like splitting school children into working groups based on "oppressed" vs. "oppressor" or simply "black/brown" and "white" for instructional sessions.  At first it was easy to waive these incidents off as a one off but we've seen too many examples now from private schools in Manhattan to public school districts outside DC, etc. to just poo poo this one.  Let's clean it up so that there isn't a heavy whitewashing going on but let's not tell eight year olds they are racist because their skin is pale colored.  At minimum, how about the left and the key national and state educational organizations make it clear thru unambiguous repeated public statements that their intention is to clearly and honestly teach all those topics that Moss rattled off a page or two back AND at the same time make it clear that they aren't going to go into woke overdrive.  All I'm seeing so far is groups like the National Education Association pledging to teach the more radical measures only to have to remove those pledges from their websites (at best) and then try to ignore the topic.

Less than 10 percent of high school seniors know the Civil War was about slavery.  When I teach the early U.S. history class I pretty much drill it into them though.  Lol

Just now, Dave Moss said:

Less than 10 percent of high school seniors know the Civil War was about slavery.  When I teach the early U.S. history class I pretty much drill it into them though.  Lol

As well you should!  Good for you.

Are you teaching high school these days?

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I think you are glossing over the nuances in the way that many schools these days are beginning to teach the subject.  They aren't merely emphasizing the importance of slavery in the history of the US or why the civil war took place which they absolutely should be doing 100%.  Rather, they are also engaging in teachings that include things like splitting school children into working groups based on "oppressed" vs. "oppressor" or simply "black/brown" and "white" for instructional sessions.  At first it was easy to waive these incidents off as a one off but we've seen too many examples now from private schools in Manhattan to public school districts outside DC, etc. to just poo poo this one.  Let's clean it up so that there isn't a heavy whitewashing going on but let's not tell eight year olds they are racist because their skin is pale colored.  At minimum, how about the left and the key national and state educational organizations make it clear thru unambiguous repeated public statements that their intention is to clearly and honestly teach all those topics that Moss rattled off a page or two back AND at the same time make it clear that they aren't going to go into woke overdrive.  All I'm seeing so far is groups like the National Education Association pledging to teach the more radical measures only to have to remove those pledges from their websites (at best) and then try to ignore the topic.

I'm well aware that there are some schools that are going way far with the woke BS. I shared this article previously here, along with a few others, but that one in particular because I think it's very powerful. 

There is little doubt there are some clumsy approaches to implementing this sort of lesson into the curriculum. To be sure, I do think there is a place for teaching some of this in the context of our nation's history, but the manner in which some schools are going about it is incredibly misguided - it's as though the administration has hired a bunch of people to implement it that have no idea how to teach to young kids. Which is pretty much exactly what's happening. 

But there's also a lot of overreaction on the "other side" of this issue. None of this sort of radical woke nonsense is being implemented in my school, and yet there is a groundswell of "anti-anti-racist" parents who are "pledged" to fight off this non-existent foe in our 90%+ white district. 

You can certainly point to overreaching on both sides of this issue. But on one side is a recent phenomenon reaching a comparatively small number of students nationwide, while the other is a multi-generational whitewashing of history that has had a strong influence on our current political state of affairs. 

There is no equivalence here.

8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Are you teaching high school these days?

Nah.  Well, maybe…

 

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I'm well aware that there are some schools that are going way far with the woke BS. I shared this article previously here, along with a few others, but that one in particular because I think it's very powerful. 

There is little doubt there are some clumsy approaches to implementing this sort of lesson into the curriculum. To be sure, I do think there is a place for teaching some of this in the context of our nation's history, but the manner in which some schools are going about it is incredibly misguided - it's as though the administration has hired a bunch of people to implement it that have no idea how to teach to young kids. Which is pretty much exactly what's happening. 

But there's also a lot of overreaction on the "other side" of this issue. None of this sort of radical woke nonsense is being implemented in my school, and yet there is a groundswell of "anti-anti-racist" parents who are "pledged" to fight off this non-existent foe in our 90%+ white district. 

You can certainly point to overreaching on both sides of this issue. But on one side is a recent phenomenon reaching a comparatively small number of students nationwide, while the other is a multi-generational whitewashing of history that has had a strong influence on our current political state of affairs. 

There is no equivalence here.

I'm not suggesting any equivalence.  I'm only asking people to do the right thing or at least a better thing.  Whitewashing/ignoring what is happening in "some schools" (seems to be much more than a few) isn't the answer.  Why can't we get the adults on the left and in the national and state education organizations to stand up and give a clear and powerful message that strikes down the idiocy from both wings while at the same time emphasizing the need to improve the education of our youth regarding our history and in particular the role that slavery has played?  As it stands now it is a slam dunk for the idiots on the right to yell "CRT" when the national groups just simply double down and say they are going to teach it (never mind the fact that they haven't even tried to define it).

28 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I'm not suggesting any equivalence.  I'm only asking people to do the right thing or at least a better thing.  Whitewashing/ignoring what is happening in "some schools" (seems to be much more than a few) isn't the answer.  Why can't we get the adults on the left and in the national and state education organizations to stand up and give a clear and powerful message that strikes down the idiocy from both wings while at the same time emphasizing the need to improve the education of our youth regarding our history and in particular the role that slavery has played?  As it stands now it is a slam dunk for the idiots on the right to yell "CRT" when the national groups just simply double down and say they are going to teach it (never mind the fact that they haven't even tried to define it).

They're trying: https://www.chalkbeat.org/2021/6/24/22549078/miguel-cardona-critical-race-theory-schools-antiracism-house-hearing

But idiocy drives clicks. When one side says something stupid, the other side races to spread the news about how the other side is "destroying America". 

Most curriculums are controlled locally, be it at the state or local level. The federal government has very little authority over mandating anything with regards to curriculum. 

And whether or not this push to better educate young children on the history of race relations in this country is being implemented in good faith in many or most districts that are adopting it is almost irrelevant (to all except the students), because for the politically motivated facts don't actually matter. The only thing that matters is the culture war, and our schools are a front for that war - so whether there are "adults" to strike down the idiocy or not you will see disingenuous arguments being paraded through the media either way. 

This is one side trying to push back against the year of George Floyd. That's what it all comes down to. 

Here's a fun fact:  41 states use common core, which means nine states don't.  Texas and Florida do not.

12 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

They're trying: https://www.chalkbeat.org/2021/6/24/22549078/miguel-cardona-critical-race-theory-schools-antiracism-house-hearing

But idiocy drives clicks. When one side says something stupid, the other side races to spread the news about how the other side is "destroying America". 

Most curriculums are controlled locally, be it at the state or local level. The federal government has very little authority over mandating anything with regards to curriculum. 

And whether or not this push to better educate young children on the history of race relations in this country is being implemented in good faith in many or most districts that are adopting it is almost irrelevant (to all except the students), because for the politically motivated facts don't actually matter. The only thing that matters is the culture war, and our schools are a front for that war - so whether there are "adults" to strike down the idiocy or not you will see disingenuous arguments being paraded through the media either way. 

This is one side trying to push back against the year of George Floyd. That's what it all comes down to. 

This is all about leadership and it is required from several places and especially from those in power and at all levels. There is also no free pass to be given to one side. Two wrongs never make a right no matter how loud one yells. 

51 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Here's a fun fact:  41 states use common core, which means nine states don't.  Texas and Florida do not.

Neither does North Carolina (since 2017). Correct me if I'm wrong Dave, but it's down to the Districts there I think, right?

 

 

Zdrastvoyte! My name-a Shamus McPipi and I'm-a from Ireland!

Procrustean equity? no, no, no.

I make-a da peepee on-a you oak saw.

7 hours ago, Seamus McPiPi said:

Zdrastvoyte! My name-a Shamus McPipi and I'm-a from Ireland!

Procrustean equity? no, no, no.

I make-a da peepee on-a you oak saw.

 

You're trying way too hard.

48 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

You're trying way too hard.

Yeah, that seems like a lot of effort for zero likes.

 

8 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

Yeah, that seems like a lot of effort for zero likes.

 

Should we tell him that kilts are actually Scottish?

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Should we tell him that kilts are actually Scottish?

Funny but I'm afraid some Irish wear kilts as well even though they come from the Scots originally.  I did a quick search and the Irish kilt wearing dates back to the 1850s.

Making a clone less funny than Blobeph. People will do anything.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Funny but I'm afraid some Irish wear kilts as well even though they come from the Scots originally.  I did a quick search and the Irish kilt wearing dates back to the 1850s.