3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Dude, if you were vaccinated for polio with the Sabin vaccine in the early 60s you were probably a child, possibly a small child.

Everything you're claiming is literally the recollection of a man at least in his sixties about hearsay when he was a child.

Memory is a funny thing.

He touts an oral vaccine, literally reinforcing your point about vaccine improvement over time compared to the initial Salk inactivated viral version.

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

He touts an oral vaccine, literally reinforcing your point about vaccine improvement over time compared to the initial Salk inactivated viral version.

whenever I encounter this mentality I drift back to this quote from a graduation speech made famous by Baz Luhrmann (though written by Mary Schmich):

If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now.
...
Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

14 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

whenever I encounter this mentality I drift back to this quote from a graduation speech made famous by Baz Luhrmann (though written by Mary Schmich):

If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now.
...
Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

Yup. Cell damage from ionizing radiation is amplified the younger you are when you are exposed to it. Don't let your kids get sunburned, folks. The second part is spot on, too. Our biases will forever frame our outlook of the world.

24 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

You don't need to have been alive during a period in time to talk about. What the F is wrong with you? If the figures that were being discussed were recorded (they were) then it's easily able to be discussed and conpared no matter if you were present or not.

This is going down the bobby wizdum rabbit hole lol. Like he said " we weren't alive for or at the Holocaust how do we know that Hitler wasn't a nice guy?" 

Then proceeded to show videos of people that worked for Hitler saying he was a good guy lol. 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

I have talked to several folks in their 80's who lived through Polio.  They all say what we are dealing with dwarfs what happened in the 50's.

I just asked my parents and my older aunts/uncles in their 70s and 80s. none could name someone who had polio. 

so there you have it.

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I just asked my parents and my older aunts/uncles in their 70s and 80s. none could name someone who had polio. 

so there you have it.

Case closed you did your research!

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I just asked my parents and my older aunts/uncles in their 70s and 80s. none could name someone who had polio. 

so there you have it.

My uncle is 91, fought in Korea, was alive for and remembers the best and worst of the most significant events in our nation's history during that time. His words to me on this are consistently in the vein of "I've been on this planet a long time, I've never seen anything like this."

2 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Case closed you did your research!

oh I have to amend, speaking to my oldest aunt and she knew some friends-of-friends type people who had them. she said she remembers being told not to go into the pool in certain weather as well. and getting the shot first then years later the oral vaccine with the sugar cube. 

obviously it was around. and even with the relatively low number of cases most people knew someone in their network that had gotten it. there were pockets of outbreaks, so usually if you knew one you probably knew a few. 

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

oh I have to amend, speaking to my oldest aunt and she knew some friends-of-friends type people who had them. she said she remembers being told not to go into the pool in certain weather as well. and getting the shot first then years later the oral vaccine with the sugar cube. 

obviously it was around. and even with the relatively low number of cases most people knew someone in their network that had gotten it. there were pockets of outbreaks, so usually if you knew one you probably knew a few. 

I mean it does help to talk to people that lived through it to get a better picture of what it was like. Ignoring all the facts because you didn't talk to everyone that lived through it is just silly. 

None of my grandparents are alive and my dad was born in 55 so he wouldn't have known and I'm not asking him about my grandparents because he is on the same thought process as the antivaxxers in here. 

23 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I mean it does help to talk to people that lived through it to get a better picture of what it was like. Ignoring all the facts because you didn't talk to everyone that lived through it is just silly. 

None of my grandparents are alive and my dad was born in 55 so he wouldn't have known and I'm not asking him about my grandparents because he is on the same thought process as the antivaxxers in here. 

Of course. We should never be in a place where we reflexively reject anecdotal experience "just because".

I was surprised when I took at some of the polio numbers. Given how polio is used as an example of a prevalent and dangerous disease cured by the miracle of modern medicine, coupled with the tough talk of old timers about "how it really was," I expected its impact to be pretty high.

And it was certainly a measurable thing, but it seems out of whack with the way it's discussed. Especially given how dismissive many of these same types are of COVID.

It's plausible the numbers are underreported somewhat, so I texted and phoned some of my older extended family to compare notes. Most of them talked about how it was definitely on the minds of parents and kids, but only my oldest aunt - born 1945 - could speak to actually knowing specific people who had it. And none had lifetime paralysis, though one father apparently had some lingering issues.

So I don't doubt it was scary. And that it was something parents, especially mom's, talked about and made sure their kids were scared about to try and prevent behaviors seen as potentially causal. And it probably represented more of a thread to kids relatively speaking than Covid might.

But there's just no way either nominally or per capita to make an argument that polio represented a bigger public health crisis than Covid to the overall population. It's not even close.

32 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I mean it does help to talk to people that lived through it to get a better picture of what it was like. Ignoring all the facts because you didn't talk to everyone that lived through it is just silly. 

None of my grandparents are alive and my dad was born in 55 so he wouldn't have known and I'm not asking him about my grandparents because he is on the same thought process as the antivaxxers in here. 

Of course it does. But in context with the original discussion going on in this thread its practically irrelevant.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Of course. We should never be in a place where we reflexively reject anecdotal experience "just because".

I was surprised when I took at some of the polio numbers. Given how polio is used as an example of a prevalent and dangerous disease cured by the miracle of modern medicine, coupled with the tough talk of old timers about "how it really was," I expected its impact to be pretty high.

And it was certainly a measurable thing, but it seems out of whack with the way it's discussed. Especially given how dismissive many of these same types are of COVID.

It's plausible the numbers are underreported somewhat, so I texted and phoned some of my older extended family to compare notes. Most of them talked about how it was definitely on the minds of parents and kids, but only my oldest aunt - born 1945 - could speak to actually knowing specific people who had it. And none had lifetime paralysis, though one father apparently had some lingering issues.

So I don't doubt it was scary. And that it was something parents, especially mom's, talked about and made sure their kids were scared about to try and prevent behaviors seen as potentially causal. And it probably represented more of a thread to kids relatively speaking than Covid might.

But there's just no way either nominally or per capita to make an argument that polio represented a bigger public health crisis than Covid to the overall population. It's not even close.

One of the reasons why some people could even possibly think polio was scarier was because it was perceived as a big risk to children and the visual impact of a kid in an iron long or in a wheel chair was very jarring. We don't have that with covid, the people that are on vents are predominantly older and/or have existing conditions. Grams and gramps kicking the bucket isn't as scary as little johnny sitting in a metal tube to breathe or being confined to a wheel chair.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

One of the reasons why some people could even possibly think polio was scarier was because it was perceived as a big risk to children and the visual impact of a kid in an iron long or in a wheel chair was very jarring. We don't have that with covid, the people that are on vents are predominantly older and/or have existing conditions. Grams and gramps kicking the bucket isn't as scary as little johnny sitting in a metal tube to breathe or being confined to a wheel chair.

yup. seeing kids with pockmarks all over, or crippled, that's a powerful emotional image. grandpa dying alone in a hospital bed after 70 years of living seems far away and less scary. 

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

One of the reasons why some people could even possibly think polio was scarier was because it was perceived as a big risk to children and the visual impact of a kid in an iron lung

They had to make a modern version of the iron lung due to ventilator shortages.  Maybe @Procus will take Covid seriously now.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I just asked my parents and my older aunts/uncles in their 70s and 80s. none could name someone who had polio. 

so there you have it.

My grandad had it! His right calf/foot was all jacked up and he had to wear a platform shoe. Seemed annoying. 

Take THAT libtards!

9 hours ago, Toastrel said:

Hi stupid

The F you want now dumb***?

7 hours ago, Gannan said:

This one is right up there with "Masks don't work because I can smell my farts through my jeans"

I've only been using these mask, cartridge and air supplied respirators for the last +30 years. 

Don't let all of that first hand experience get in the way of you letting me in on what you don't know. 😒

15 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

I've only been using these mask, cartridge and air supplied respirators for the last +30 years. 

Don't let all of that first hand experience get in the way of you letting me in on what you don't know. 😒

Wearing a respirator, be it supplied air, full face or half face, doesn't give anyone any first hand knowledge on how a face mask helps prevent the spread of a virus during a pandemic. 

1 minute ago, Boogyman said:

Wearing a respirator, be it supplied air, full face or half face, doesn't give anyone any first hand knowledge on how a face mask helps prevent the spread of a virus during a pandemic. 

It does give one first hand knowledge of their usage, purpose, and abilities. 

Don't hurt yourself here.

11 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

It does give one first hand knowledge of their usage, purpose, and abilities. 

Don't hurt yourself here.

That's all meaningless in this context. I've worn the same types of PPE you described for over half my life on an almost daily basis, and simply wearing it doesn't give a person any knowledge on how a virus spreads at all. 

 

8 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

That's all meaningless in this context. I've worn the same types of PPE you described for over half my life on an almost daily basis, and simply wearing it doesn't give a person any knowledge on how a virus spreads at all. 

 

You have some serious Fing comprehension issues don't you? Re read what I posted. If you cant grasp what I posted stfu and sit down. JFC!

19 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

That's all meaningless in this context. I've worn the same types of PPE you described for over half my life on an almost daily basis, and simply wearing it doesn't give a person any knowledge on how a virus spreads at all. 

 

He is the same type of guy, because he owns a gun, he is an expert in military tactics and guerilla warfare.

11 minutes ago, downundermike said:

He is the same type of guy, because he owns a gun, he is an expert in military tactics and guerilla warfare.

I never made those claims but it's interesting that you would make that statement as opposed to anything of value.

Shocked I tell you.

1 hour ago, lynched1 said:

You have some serious Fing comprehension issues don't you? Re read what I posted. If you cant grasp what I posted stfu and sit down. JFC!

^Triggered

5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I just asked my parents and my older aunts/uncles in their 70s and 80s. none could name someone who had polio. 

so there you have it.

My Aunt Ruth died of polio at the age of 6.   5 years later 1935 a vaccine  trial came out. Born 1924. Died 1930... I edited this cuz I couldn't trust my memory of what my dad her brother told me , he was a few years older than she was....I remember him saying it was very shortly after she died that a vaccine came out.