Posted October 6, 20214 yr China sent 52 warplanes into Taiwan's air defense zone in its largest show of force yet https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-air-force-f-35a-140716456.html Wed, October 6, 2021, 10:07 AM China sent a record-breaking force of military aircraft into Taiwan's air defense identification zone Monday. In a display of military might, China sent 52 military aircraft flying past Taiwan. Taiwan's military says it scrambled patrol aircraft, issued radio warnings, and monitored the situation via air defense units. In a massive show of force following a US warning about Chinese military activity near Taiwan, China sent 52 warplanes into Taiwan's air defense identification zone on Monday, forcing the self-ruled island to scramble patrol aircraft in response, according to the Republic of China Air Force. The Chinese military aircraft group, the largest China has sent since Taiwan's defense ministry began keeping records last year, included 34 J-16 fighter jets, two Su-30 fighters, two Y-8 anti-submarine warfare aircraft, two KJ-500 early warning aircraft, and 12 H-6 bombers.
October 6, 20214 yr Author https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-air-force-f-35a-140716456.html Wed, October 6, 2021, 10:07 AM The US Air Force F-35A stealth fighter just took a big step toward being able to drop nuclear bombs The F-35A stealth fighter recently moved closer to being able to carry nuclear bombs and conduct nuclear strikes. The Air Force said this week that the fighter dropped mock nuclear bombs in recent testing, part of the nuclear certification process. Stealth aircraft have the ability to penetrate adversary defenses to deliver devastating strikes.
October 6, 20214 yr Author Should the US defend Taiwan from an invasion by China? Is it worth it? Can the US actually win such a war? Will the war turn nuclear?
October 6, 20214 yr Author https://asiatimes.com/2021/07/royal-navy-defies-china-en-route-to-south-china-sea/ JULY 27, 2021 Royal Navy defies China en route to South China Sea In what seems like more than a coincidence, the United Kingdom’s (UK) largest naval contingent in recent memory has conducted unprecedented drills off the coast of Singapore just hours before the US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin’s much-awaited address at Singapore’s annual Fullerton Forum. This week saw the UK’s Carrier Strike Group, led by the 65,000-tonne carrier aircraft carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth, and the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) hold joint naval exercises close to the hotly disputed South China Sea. This was the first time that the Royal Navy’s 5th generation Carrier Strike Group exercised alongside the RSN, which has been rapidly expanding its security cooperation with the US and other allied powers in recent years. Just days earlier, the British contingent conducted joint drills (July 21-22) with the Indian Navy in the Bay of Bengal. Over the coming weeks, the British naval contingent is expected to pass through China’s adjacent waters, from the South China Sea to the Taiwan Straits, en route to Japan, a fellow US ally. To assert its often underappreciated status as a "resident power” in the Indo-Pacific, Britain has also announced that it will permanently deploy at least two warships for operations across the region. Since May, the HMS Queen Elizabeth-led Carrier Strike Group has been on a transoceanic voyage covering 40 countries across 26,000 nautical miles in order to project a post-Brexit "Global Britain.” The Pentagon has warmly welcomed the British naval deployment as an expression of the European power’s "commitment to an interconnected network of allies and partners, who mutually cooperate and support freedom of navigation and a rules-based order in the Indo-Pacific region.” For China, which has vehemently opposed any large-scale European naval presence in the region, Britain is simply part of an emerging US-led counter-alliance aimed at containing the Asian superpower’s naval ambitions.
October 6, 20214 yr Author US sails ship through South China Sea days after China institutes new maritime ID rules By Oren Liebermann and Ellie Kaufman, CNN Updated 2:58 PM ET, Wed September 8, 2021 https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/08/politics/us-south-china-sea-maritime-id-rules/index.html A US destroyer sailed near the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea on Wednesday, the US Navy's 7th Fleet announced, days after China imposed new maritime identification rules that include the disputed body of water. The USS Benfold, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, sailed within 12 miles of Mischief Reef, a portion of the Spratly Islands upon which the Chinese have built military facilities. "Under international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention, features like Mischief Reef that are submerged at high tide in their naturally formed state are not entitled to a territorial sea," a statement from 7th Fleet read following the freedom of navigation operation. "The land reclamation efforts, installations, and structures built on Mischief Reef do not change this characterization under international law." The passage near Mischief Reef comes days after China imposed the new maritime identification rules on its territorial waters, including its claims on much of the South China Sea. On September 1, China instituted a new rule that requires many ships to identify their names, call signs, current positions, next ports of call and estimated times of arrival with Chinese authorities upon entering the country's territorial waters. When the USS Benfold passed near the Spratly Islands without abiding by the new rule, China accused the US of "illegally" entering its waters, claiming it had driven away the ship. "On September 8th, the USS Benfold guided missile destroyer illegally broke into the waters adjacent to the Mischief Reef of Nansha islands without the approval of the Chinese government," Air Force Col. Tian Junli, spokesperson for China's Southern Theater Command, said in a statement. "The air force carried out follow-up surveillance and issued a warning to drive it away."
October 6, 20214 yr 20 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Should the US defend Taiwan from an invasion by China? Is it worth it? Can the US actually win such a war? Will the war turn nuclear? How much better off would the world have been if we had stopped Hitler over the Sudetenland ? Chinese aggression isn't going to taper after they take Taiwan. Quite the opposite.
October 6, 20214 yr Author US Navy sails massive fleet through South China Sea in defiance of Chinese THE United States has sent a massive fleet of ships, along with a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, on a mission close to Australia. But what for? ALONG the South China Sea, a giant fleet of American ships, including a nuclear powered American aircraft carrier and its jet fighters, is on the move. The $3.8 billion super ship is there for a specific reason — the United States Navy says it’s all part of its largest multinational disaster response exercises in the Indo-Pacific region. Yet while they are right, there seems to be another reason at play — local press suggests the move is a big ‘F-you’ to China, which has continued to build military infrastructure in the disputed region that includes hangars, underground storage and missile shelters. This is despite a ruling from an international tribunal in The Hague that summarised China had no historic title over its waters. The ship has been sailing through the disputed waters and local media is reporting jet fighters and helicopters engaging in missions "day and night” in the area, for reasons "ship officials refused to divulge”. Britain is set to do the same next month when it sends an anti-frigate submarine from Australia through the area to assert freedom of navigation rights. "She’ll be sailing through the South China Sea (on the way home) and making it clear our navy has a right to do that,” Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson told The Australian.
October 6, 20214 yr Author 3 minutes ago, Gannan said: How much better off would the world have been if we had stopped Hitler over the Sudetenland ? Chinese aggression isn't going to taper after they take Taiwan. Quite the opposite. I wasn't aware that China had plans to take over other countries besides Taiwan.
October 6, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: I wasn't aware that China had plans to take over other countries besides Taiwan. Aggression isn't always invasion. However, history shows that weakness in the face of aggression only breeds more aggression. Could be aggression over shipping lanes in the south china sea, or more interference in our affairs. The United States has become a paper tiger, war weary and afraid, and China knows it.
October 6, 20214 yr First off, the Chinese aren't going to invade Taiwan. We play this game all the time. They run military exercises, we send in carriers, eventually a deal of some kind is reached. If, in some Bizzaro world, they did invade Taiwan, then per the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act we are bound to defend Taiwan. Unless that law is repealed or amended, we should honor our commitments.
October 6, 20214 yr China isn't dumb enough to invade Taiwan. They're going through enough economic turmoil as it is. The last thing they're going to do is give the rest of the world a reason to galvanize and pushish/isolate them.
October 6, 20214 yr Author 5 minutes ago, Gannan said: Aggression isn't always invasion. However, history shows that weakness in the face of aggression only breeds more aggression. Could be aggression over shipping lanes in the south china sea, or more interference in our affairs. The United States has become a paper tiger, war weary and afraid, and China knows it. Point taken. I doubt China can affecting shipping lanes with the 7th Fleet sailing through it. Also with the British Navy and Australia, they can be imposing. But China has way more people. So if they invade Taiwan, does that mean we attack China proper to stop the supply chain?
October 6, 20214 yr Author 4 minutes ago, mayanh8 said: China isn't dumb enough to invade Taiwan. They're going through enough economic turmoil as it is. The last thing they're going to do is give the rest of the world a reason to galvanize and pushish/isolate them. I don't know if dumb has much to do with it. They believe Taiwan belongs to them. They are certainly being aggressive towards Taiwan, more so than in recent memory. They have threatened invasion for over decade.
October 6, 20214 yr The One China policy has always be the PRC's policy. Again, we do this ALL THE TIME with them. They aren't invading Taiwan.
October 6, 20214 yr Just like the Crimea was part of the Russian empire, Taiwan was part of the Chines empire. Tough one
October 6, 20214 yr Author 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: The One China policy has always be the PRC's policy. Again, we do this ALL THE TIME with them. They aren't invading Taiwan. All the time? I don't seem to recall that, say in the 90's or the 80's. It's entirely possible, not doubting you, maybe the media attention to it now is greater?
October 6, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: I don't know if dumb has much to do with it. They believe Taiwan belongs to them. They are certainly being aggressive towards Taiwan, more so than in recent memory. They have threatened invasion for over decade. They do this exact thing with India as well. Again, they know what an unprovoked invasion of another country under the protection of the U.S. would mean to them right now. Outside of generating some sort of nationalistic movement, there's nothing to gain. And everything to lose.
October 6, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, jsdarkstar said: All the time? I don't seem to recall that, say in the 90's or the 80's. It's entirely possible, not doubting you, maybe the media attention to it now is greater? I mean, there was a great West Wing episode about this same thing that aired in like 2002. None of this is new.
October 6, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: All the time? I don't seem to recall that, say in the 90's or the 80's. It's entirely possible, not doubting you, maybe the media attention to it now is greater? Since the Chinese Civil War (1927-1949). Which the communists won and U.S.-backed Nationalists lost.
October 6, 20214 yr Here ya go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-Strait_relations Read the section on 1998-2008. Quote Hu Jintao became General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party in late 2002, succeeding Jiang Zemin as de facto paramount leader of China. Hu continued to insist that talks can only proceed under an agreement of the "one China" principle. At the same time, Hu and the PRC continued a military missile buildup across the strait from Taiwan while making threats of military action against Taiwan should it declare independence or if the PRC considers that all possibilities for a peaceful unification are completely exhausted. The PRC also continued applying diplomatic pressure to other nations to isolate the ROC diplomatically.[citation needed] However, during the 2003 Iraq war, the PRC allowed Taiwanese airlines use of China's airspace.[35] After the re-election of Chen Shui-bian in 2004, Hu's government changed the previous blanket no-contact policy, a holdover from the Jiang Zemin administration. Under the new policy, on the one hand, the PRC government continued a no-contact policy towards Chen Shui-bian. It maintained its military build-up against Taiwan, and pursued a vigorous policy of isolating Taiwan diplomatically. In March 2005, the Anti-Secession Law was passed by the National People's Congress, formalizing "non-peaceful means" as an option of response to a formal declaration of independence in Taiwan. We play this game where we tell the Chinese we support the One China policy, while at the same time defending Taiwan's sovereignty. Taiwan never formally declares independence and no one recognizes it as an independent nation (not in UN, no embassy, etc.). We've been doing it this way since 1979 when the PRC took over international recognition.
October 6, 20214 yr China will invade Taiwan, when they are sure they can get away with it, and the benefit outweighs the cost. With the US in the mix, the cost is prohibitive.
October 6, 20214 yr js, the articles you posted in this thread are months or years old. this shows how long this game has been played. are they increasing pressure? yeah, for the moment. I don't know where 50 some airplanes flying into the Taiwan defense zone stacks up historically, but the flight paths were well outside of the island. there aren't a bunch of Chinese jets flying over Taiwan.
October 6, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Toastrel said: China will invade Taiwan, when they are sure they can get away with it, and the benefit outweighs the cost. With the US in the mix, the cost is prohibitive. Well, yeah -- if we ever repealed the 1979 Act, Taiwan is screwed. But that won't happen anytime soon. @jsdarkstar the West Wing episode is "Hartfield's Landing" from Season 3. It's fantastic. It's also the episode they re-did as a play in 2020 on HBO Max.
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