Just now, VanHammersly said:

Why were Gruden's emails released to the public in the first place if they were investigation abuse within the WFT?

Who knows. Maybe someone who saw the emails that was involved with the investigation leaked them to the media. Part of the process that journalists follow would be to go to the NFL and ask for comment. In an effort to get ahead of it they do it themselves to control the narrative and force him to resign.

Or simply it could be that, internally, enough people within the NFL who knew about the emails were so angry about it they had no choice but to act.

6 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was racist. Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was homophobic. You can cry about cancel culture all you want but the dude clearly said what he said and there's zero ambiguity about it. I mean... this one is as cut and dry as it gets.

What is absolutely hilarious to watch, though, is the immediate reaction from the usual suspects of, "Oh well if you went digging around in everyone's emails and texts you'd probably find the same thing!" I guess I can only speak for myself but I can unequivocally say that I've never been racist or homophobic in any of my most private correspondence. Like, that's not a question. And the fact that these people just assume that this is normal, private behavior is 100% revealing and funny as hell.

Literally only an ishlib has said that in this thread lmfao

 

Gruden thought he was teflon - hot-headed "Chucky" who just tells it like it is.  His whole reputation was built on that.  "Michelin lips" though.. come on.  I read his excuse that he calls liars "rubber lips" but how about not comment on a black dude's lips at all and then you don't have to worry about being misinterpreted.  As soon as I read that I knew he was toast.

1 minute ago, mayanh8 said:

Who knows. Maybe someone who saw the emails that was involved with the investigation leaked them to the media. Part of the process that journalists follow would be to go to the NFL and ask for comment. In an effort to get ahead of it they do it themselves to control the narrative and force him to resign.

Or simply it could be that, internally, enough people within the NFL who knew about the emails were so angry about it they had no choice but to act.

Of course they had a choice.  They're investigating actual abuse, not private emails from someone outside the investigation.  I don't agree with what he said, but I don't like people getting canned for private correspondence.  Very few people could hold up to having all their private emails/text, etc. poured through.

13 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was racist. Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was homophobic. You can cry about cancel culture all you want but the dude clearly said what he said and there's zero ambiguity about it. I mean... this one is as cut and dry as it gets.

What is absolutely hilarious to watch, though, is the immediate reaction from the usual suspects of, "Oh well if you went digging around in everyone's emails and texts you'd probably find the same thing!" I guess I can only speak for myself but I can unequivocally say that I've never been racist or homophobic in any of my most private correspondence. Like, that's not a question. And the fact that these people just assume that this is normal, private behavior is 100% revealing and funny as hell.

I've never been racist, but me and my friends probably used homophobic slurs to refer to each other in old texts and emails. Though I'll say this is a grown man, in a professional setting, directly attacking people within the same league that employs him. I may have been really stupid in my early 20's but never was I dumb enough to start using my work email to refer to any co-workers in a manner like this. 

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Of course they had a choice.  They're investigating actual abuse, not private emails from someone outside the investigation.  I don't agree with what he said, but I don't like people getting canned for private correspondence.  Very few people could hold up to having all their private emails/text, etc. poured through.

Gruden's a very public figure - and his remarks were made regarding NFL business.

 I can tell you for sure that I don't make racist remarks, and I especially don't write them.  If I wrote a racist remark about someone I work with, I'd expect to be canned.  

5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Of course they had a choice.  They're investigating actual abuse, not private emails from someone outside the investigation.  I don't agree with what he said, but I don't like people getting canned for private correspondence.  Very few people could hold up to having all their private emails/text, etc. poured through.

So let's play that out...

The NYT gets ahold of the emails, the NFL says and does nothing. The story gets published and now all of sudden the narrative is that the NFL is hiding racist and homophobic emails they found from an active head coach during their investigation of the WFT... all while in the middle of an "End racism/hate" campaign. 

It's a business decision. Either Gruden has to go or suffer through a league wide PR crisis of their own making.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I've never been racist, but me and my friends probably used homophobic slurs to refer to each other in old texts and emails. Though I'll say this is a grown man, in a professional setting, directly attacking people within the same league that employs him. I may have been really stupid in my early 20's but never was I dumb enough to start using my work email to refer to any co-workers in a manner like this. 

I'm not saying I've never had some dark moments in my past that I've talked about privately with family and friends that would be embarrassing if they were ever made public. But I can, without a doubt, say I've never sent an email or text (especially a work email or text) that could ever be used to paint me as a bigot or hateful person of any kind.

It's not like Gruden singled someone out or just had a personal beef with a couple people. He literally said he has problems with an entire gender and sexual orientation being a part of the NFL. That man has some issues he needs to work through...

4 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

I'm not saying I've never had some dark moments in my past that I've talked about privately with family and friends that would be embarrassing if they were ever made public. But I can, without a doubt, say I've never sent an email or text (especially a work email or text) that could ever be used to paint me as a bigot or hateful person of any kind.

This is probably true of the post-college me. But before that, all bets are off. I'm not sure a day went by with my roommates where we didn't call each other ghey at least 3 times before dinner.

6 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

So let's play that out...

The NYT gets ahold of the emails, the NFL says and does nothing. The story gets published and now all of sudden the narrative is that the NFL is hiding racist and homophobic emails they found from an active head coach during their investigation of the WFT... all while in the middle of an "End racism/hate" campaign. 

Maybe it plays out like that, maybe it doesn't.  Look, I get why the NFL protects it's brand, but, again, I don't like people's personal correspondence being poured over for imperfections.  I can promise you that you've written the word "rhee-****" on here.  If that somehow saw that light of day and you were fired over it, would you be good with that?

11 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Of course they had a choice.  They're investigating actual abuse, not private emails from someone outside the investigation.  I don't agree with what he said, but I don't like people getting canned for private correspondence.  Very few people could hold up to having all their private emails/text, etc. poured through.

I think lots of people are careful about what they say in email and texts.

On company devices, I never even post anything unsavory. I wouldn't post here. Anything. Maybe this is part of being in IT security? I know the risks.

For example, I know that EVERYTHING in my company mailbox is monitored. The ONLY remotely worrisome emails, are in the Eagles emails that go around every year with friends and family. However, that is never racist. Just lots of horrible things said about Dallas, and the Eagles when they stink.

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

Maybe it plays out like that, maybe it doesn't.  Look, I get why the NFL protects it's brand, but, again, I don't like people's personal correspondence being poured over for imperfections.  I can promise you that you've written the word "rhee-****" on here.  If that somehow saw that light of day and you were fired over it, would you be good with that?

There's a bit of a distinction between work emails and anonymous message board posts, no? Unless I'm missing something, and these were with his personal email account?

I wonder how the Gruden emails got leaked to the press... It seems like deflection. Don't look at everything that happened at WFT, look at what Gruden said! 

Yeah, I've seen and heard worse. But yeah, Gruden deserves what he's getting because it's now revealed as a pattern. NFL can't run a "End Racism" campaign and say "It Takes All of Us", while ignoring this and leaving this guy in charge of a team. I'm afraid he'll be the fall guy while other bad actors hide in the shadows.

43 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

FYP

If we scoured everyone's private emails to make sure no one ever said anything mean about anyone else no one would have a job.

Speak for yourself. I’m a saint you hobo deek sucking cracka arse cracka. 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

There's a bit of a distinction between work emails and anonymous message board posts, no? Unless I'm missing something, and these were with his personal email account?

Gruden was working in the media in 2011. He wasn't working for an NFL team, no longer a coach.

3 minutes ago, toolg said:

I wonder how the Gruden emails got leaked to the press... It seems like deflection. Don't look at everything that happened at WFT, look at what Gruden said! 

Yeah, I've seen and heard worse. But yeah, Gruden deserves what he's getting because it's now revealed as a pattern. NFL can't run a "End Racism" campaign and say "It Takes All of Us", while ignoring this and leaving this guy in charge of a team. I'm afraid he'll be the fall guy while other bad actors hide in the shadows.

Typically, some mid-level functionary involved in the investigation, who had access to the data (stupidly because people don't much care about security) - they didn't like Gruden and released it anonymously.

 

They have access to WFT emails - so these are emails he sent to people there.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

There's a bit of a distinction between work emails and anonymous message board posts, no? Unless I'm missing something, and these were with his personal email account?

I have no idea, but I don't see a huge distinction there.

I understand the mantra that what you say publicly is open to scrutiny.  I just don't like the idea that private conversations are studied for mistakes.  Life's messy and people are a-holes sometimes.

36 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was racist. Yes, what Gruden put in those emails was homophobic. You can cry about cancel culture all you want but the dude clearly said what he said and there's zero ambiguity about it. I mean... this one is as cut and dry as it gets.

What is absolutely hilarious to watch, though, is the immediate reaction from the usual suspects of, "Oh well if you went digging around in everyone's emails and texts you'd probably find the same thing!" I guess I can only speak for myself but I can unequivocally say that I've never been racist or homophobic in any of my most private correspondence. Like, that's not a question. And the fact that these people just assume that this is normal, private behavior is 100% revealing and funny as hell.

Most people haven't, but then again you're not a jock d bag... a lot of NFL coaches are. 

1 minute ago, VanHammersly said:

I have no idea, but I don't see a huge distinction there.

I understand the mantra that what you say publicly is open to scrutiny.  I just don't like the idea that private conversations are studied for mistakes.  Life's messy and people are a-holes sometimes.

A private conversation should be done in private. NOT ON COMPANY EMAIL.

1 minute ago, Toastrel said:

A private conversation should be done in private. NOT ON COMPANY EMAIL.

So if he had sent that via his private email, the NFL wouldn't have forced him to resign?  We both know they would've.

2 minutes ago, toolg said:

Gruden was working in the media in 2011. He wasn't working for an NFL team, no longer a coach.

Oh gotcha, wasn't familiar with all the details of the story. Still dumb of him though, and certainly something I would have never done, but it's a bit different now that I know he was using his personal email and wasn't even employed by the league at the time.

13 minutes ago, mayanh8 said:

I'm not saying I've never had some dark moments in my past that I've talked about privately with family and friends that would be embarrassing if they were ever made public. But I can, without a doubt, say I've never sent an email or text (especially a work email or text) that could ever be used to paint me as a bigot or hateful person of any kind.

Never said the N word? 

We and the NFL have such an interesting view of morality. Say mean things in emails you believe to be private a decade ago is an immediate dismissal. Threaten to murder your father-in-law while committing an act of domestic violence against your wife while a free agent. Hired several months later. 

Tyreek Hill has beaten the ever-loving-ish out of his girlfriend multiple times and broke his son's arm and he's one of the league's marquee players. 

2 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

A private conversation should be done in private. NOT ON COMPANY EMAIL.

 

Just now, VanHammersly said:

So if he had sent that via his private email, the NFL wouldn't have forced him to resign?  We both know they would've.

Wait, so was it or was it not his private email? I'm confused.