October 13, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Some, maybe, but more importantly, he lost the locker room the instant that email came out where he talked about how big Smith's lips were. Good luck winning any games when the players think your coach is a closeted racist. It's not much different than the Clippers players on the brink of refusing to play for an owner that made those types of comments to his girlfriend in private. Exhibit A. Bears 20, Raiders 9
October 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, downundermike said: Exhibit A. Bears 20, Raiders 9 Ya I mean they were terrible regardless, but players boycotting literally one game as a form of protest is all it would take to bring that hammer down anyway.
October 13, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ya I mean they were terrible regardless, but players boycotting literally one game as a form of protest is all it would take to bring that hammer down anyway. When the Raiders go into Denver and win, after losing at home to the NFC equivalent of them, that will tell you all you need to know about what the team not wanting to play for him last Sunday.
October 13, 20214 yr 22 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said: thing is, this deal with gruden is not a cancel culture situation at all. this is something that most of us, if not all, would be fired for. the problem is what gets you fired by the nfl. goodell is garbage. It’s both. Yes anyone would probably get fired but look at the bucs. They already removed him from their ring of fame and much more to come I’m sure. How is that not canceling him?
October 13, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, SNOORDA said: It’s both. Yes anyone would probably get fired but look at the bucs. They already removed him from their ring of fame and much more to come I’m sure. How is that not canceling him? to be clear, i am talking solely about him resigning being fired. the bucs are absolutely being hypocritical.
October 13, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said: Some, maybe, but more importantly, I think he lost the locker room the instant that email came out where he talked about how big Smith's lips were. Good luck winning any games when the players think your coach is a closeted racist. It's not much different than the Clippers players on the brink of refusing to play for an owner that made those types of comments to his girlfriend in private. For sure
October 13, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, vikas83 said: Everyone getting worked up about a double standard, please try and understand -- the double standard exists because of fans, not the teams. The teams do what is in their economic best interests. Gruden was fired because the negative press and fan reaction would have impacted the league and the Raiders. Warren Sapp remains in the Bucs Ring of Honor because no fans care enough to stop spending money on tickets because of it. We've accepted certain things and get outraged by others -- the NFL is a business that is simply reacting to its customer base. Need a more stark example...KOBE BRYANT. The guy is universally celebrated despite having been charged with rape and settling the case. The Lakers retired both his numbers and no one thinks they shouldn't. Fans have decided that some things are acceptable and forgivable, and some aren't. The teams and league are reacting to the impact on the bottom line. Some of us in here are reflecting more on the general state of our society rather than the team’s specific decision (which is understandable).
October 13, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Some of us in here are reflecting more on the general state of our society rather than the team’s specific decision (which is understandable). It kinda goes hand and hand though the nfl trying to appeal to everyone even though they have done just fine appealing to fans of football.
October 13, 20214 yr 48 minutes ago, SNOORDA said: It’s both. Yes anyone would probably get fired but look at the bucs. They already removed him from their ring of fame and much more to come I’m sure. How is that not canceling him? It is CONSEQUENCES. These are good things. I don't personally like removing hall of fame and other such honors. His performance is not tied to his bad behavior. Probably.
October 13, 20214 yr Author 12 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Some of us in here are reflecting more on the general state of our society rather than the team’s specific decision (which is understandable). Doc, how often do you use racial slurs in your e-mail correspondence?
October 13, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Doc, how often do you use racial slurs in your e-mail correspondence? He won't be able to answer that question until after the mid-terms.
October 13, 20214 yr 17 minutes ago, Toastrel said: It is CONSEQUENCES. These are good things. I don't personally like removing hall of fame and other such honors. His performance is not tied to his bad behavior. Probably. Yes. But you can’t help but wonder if the nfl is/going to go out if it’s way to humiliate him in the public view to pander to the group(s) he offended. I think they could have just let him fade off into the sunset on this one especially since they weren’t even investigating gruden. that’s all
October 13, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Alpha_TATEr said: thing is, this deal with gruden is not a cancel culture situation at all. this is something that most of us, if not all, would be fired for. the problem is what gets you fired by the nfl. goodell is garbage. The question what exactly gets one fired when it comes to this sort of thing. For example, how far back should one go? Gruden case looks clear given the circumstances in any case.
October 13, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, SNOORDA said: Yes. But you can’t help but wonder if the nfl is/going to go out if it’s way to humiliate him in the public view to pander to the group(s) he offended. I think they could have just let him fade off into the sunset on this one especially since they weren’t even investigating gruden. that’s all They are for sure being Ds about it.
October 13, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The question what exactly gets one fired when it comes to this sort of thing. For example, how far back should one go? Gruden case looks clear given the circumstances in any case. Whatever the COMPANY feels is bad for their business. What he did was stupid. Plain and simple. Worthy of firing. 5 years, 10, does it matter? If you are a legal adult and are stupid enough to send racist emails using company email, or TO company email, you deserve to be fired. Before I text my best friend, I assume his wife might be next to him. I am way more careful with company messaging.
October 13, 20214 yr 37 minutes ago, SNOORDA said: It kinda goes hand and hand though the nfl trying to appeal to everyone even though they have done just fine appealing to fans of football. The broader pattern and unclear and changing criteria is where things get tricky. There is good in there so not questioning that but just hard to determine any consistency. At some point things will come back from an overshoot and then settle and the result will have been progress. It will be bumpy getting there though.
October 13, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Toastrel said: Whatever the COMPANY feels is bad for their business. What he did was stupid. Plain and simple. Worthy of firing. 5 years, 10, does it matter? If you are a legal adult and are stupid enough to send racist emails using company email, or TO company email, you deserve to be fired. Before I text my best friend, I assume his wife might be next to him. I am way more careful with company messaging. I didn’t question the NFL or the Raiders or Bucs. You put one rule in play and that is the "adult” requirement which I suppose you define as turning 18. I’m good with that one.
October 13, 20214 yr Just now, DrPhilly said: I didn’t question the NFL or the Raiders or Bucs. You put one rule in play and that is the "adult” requirement which I suppose you define as turning 18. I’m good with that one. I would say 21. Realistically, 25 is probably closer to the truth. I was still young and stupid at 21.
October 13, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Doc, how often do you use racial slurs in your e-mail correspondence? Define "racist” and "racial slur”.
October 13, 20214 yr 19 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The question what exactly gets one fired when it comes to this sort of thing. For example, how far back should one go? Gruden case looks clear given the circumstances in any case. thats a good question. i just wonder why these guys do sheet like this to begin with. especially the ones that post this nonsense on social media and leave it there. isnt Brandyourself a new sponsor for the nfl ?
October 13, 20214 yr 12 minutes ago, Toastrel said: I would say 21. Realistically, 25 is probably closer to the truth. I was still young and stupid at 21. Getting those details into some sort of generally accepted level is the tricky part. Of course every private business sets their own rules for the most part.
October 13, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, vikas83 said: Everyone getting worked up about a double standard, please try and understand -- the double standard exists because of fans, not the teams. The teams do what is in their economic best interests. Gruden was fired because the negative press and fan reaction would have impacted the league and the Raiders. Warren Sapp remains in the Bucs Ring of Honor because no fans care enough to stop spending money on tickets because of it. We've accepted certain things and get outraged by others -- the NFL is a business that is simply reacting to its customer base. Need a more stark example...KOBE BRYANT. The guy is universally celebrated despite having been charged with rape and settling the case. The Lakers retired both his numbers and no one thinks they shouldn't. Fans have decided that some things are acceptable and forgivable, and some aren't. The teams and league are reacting to the impact on the bottom line. For the record, I'm not getting worked up about the Bucs, just pointing out the slippery slope. They can do whatever they want. Just pointing out the slippery slope they could be going down. I think this could actually bring more trouble upon themselves. How many people outside of Tampa even knew that Gruden was in their Ring of Honor? I'm an avid football fan, and it's not something that even crossed my mind. So now they've brought attention to themselves that he was in the ring of honor by announcing that they are removing him. And so now they may get other special interest groups, like women's rights groups, to look at who else is in their ring of honor and put pressure on them to remove some other "bad apples" who may be there.
October 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Phillyterp85 said: For the record, I'm not getting worked up about the Bucs, just pointing out the slippery slope. They can do whatever they want. Just pointing out the slippery slope they could be going down. I think this could actually bring more trouble upon themselves. How many people outside of Tampa even knew that Gruden was in their Ring of Honor? I'm an avid football fan, and it's not something that even crossed my mind. So now they've brought attention to themselves that he was in the ring of honor by announcing that they are removing him. And so now they may get other special interest groups, like women's rights groups, to look at who else is in their ring of honor and put pressure on them to remove some other "bad apples" who may be there. Fair point. The Bucs are clearly trying to get some points by virtue signaling, but it could easily backfire. The Raiders had no choice.
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