NYC has pulled the trigger and will remove a Thomas Jefferson statue that has stood in city hall since 1915.  The statue portrays Jefferson with a quill and the Declaration of Independence.

 

There have been many statue removals of course but this one is different given Jefferson's history as founding father, 3rd president, Mt Rushmore status, author of the Dec of Independence, etc. etc. etc. plus the fact that it is being removed from the town hall in the most important city in the US (well, NYC or WashDC).

Utter stupidity 

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Utter stupidity 

I agree.  But I want to see a cage match between KZ and WGB.

I want to be able to choose multiple. B + C.

3 minutes ago, rambo said:

I agree.  But I want to see a cage match between KZ and WGB.

I'm training with Rogan on my MMA game as we speak.

Stupid as hell. 

Take down William penn too!!!!

Where the "Lock N Load" option?

For the record: I won't agree to the cage match until after the election

35 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

For the record: I won't agree to the cage match until after the election

only if its not rigged. 

NYC gets to decide what statues NYC wants to keep or take down.

1 minute ago, toolg said:

NYC gets to decide what statues NYC wants to keep or take down.

This is completely true. We can still agree or disagree with the decision though.

6 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

This is completely true. We can still agree or disagree with the decision though.

Thank you. NYC has every right to act stupidly, and we have every right to point it out.

I fully support removing statues of the enemies of the United States, aka, Confederate Dingleberries.

 

Everybody that held the office made mistakes, some horrific. You cannot buff out the rough spots of history. How about honor the man for what he did, and teach what he did wrong? Oh, sorry, can't have that.

That's racist.

7 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

I fully support removing statues of the enemies of the United States, aka, Confederate Dingleberries.

 

Everybody that held the office made mistakes, some horrific. You cannot buff out the rough spots of history. How about honor the man for what he did, and teach what he did wrong? Oh, sorry, can't have that.

That's racist.

I just love all the people now who just KNOW that if they lived in 18th century Virginia, they would have been rabid abolitionists and would never have countenanced slavery. They would have clearly led the charge to change the law immediately to outlaw slavery. They just KNOW this. 

SPOILER ALERT: They would have all had slaves and felt zero guilt about it. And things they are doing now will look barbaric 200 years from now. 

How about we stop trying to apply current social constructs to people who lived centuries ago?  

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

I just love all the people now who just KNOW that if they lived in 18th century Virginia, they would have been rabid abolitionists and would never have countenanced slavery. They would have clearly led the charge to change the law immediately to outlaw slavery. They just KNOW this. 

SPOILER ALERT: They would have all had slaves and felt zero guilt about it. And things they are doing now will look barbaric 200 years from now. 

How about we stop trying to apply current social constructs to people who lived centuries ago?  

BINGO!

10 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I just love all the people now who just KNOW that if they lived in 18th century Virginia, they would have been rabid abolitionists and would never have countenanced slavery. They would have clearly led the charge to change the law immediately to outlaw slavery. They just KNOW this. 

SPOILER ALERT: They would have all had slaves and felt zero guilt about it. And things they are doing now will look barbaric 200 years from now. 

How about we stop trying to apply current social constructs to people who lived centuries ago?  

Agree 100%.

I am also in favor of teaching real history, warts and all.

I voted disagree… but will 100% fraudulently change my position to accept said nomination.

you jackazzez not voting for #3 are prime examples of why this country is so F'd. 

Jefferson repeatedly argued that slavery would go away naturally which is one of the all-time bad takes in US history. But to his credit he finally did realize he was wrong a few years before his death.

Alan Taylor has a new book out about the school Jefferson founded near his home in Charlottesville, the University of Virginia.  I only bring it up because Gordon Wood wrote a book review about it where he basically said that it didn’t seem like Taylor liked Jefferson very much.  

A visit to Monticello will teach you quite a bit about how Jefferson 'viewed' slaves.

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

I fully support removing statues of the enemies of the United States, aka, Confederate Dingleberries.

 

Everybody that held the office made mistakes, some horrific. You cannot buff out the rough spots of history. How about honor the man for what he did, and teach what he did wrong? Oh, sorry, can't have that.

That's racist.

Jefferson kind of wiggled out of this one by dying before the Civil War.  But it’s probably worth noting that Southerners used the Kentucky Resolution, which he wrote, to justify secession.

By the way Jefferson was dumb enough to put in writing that black people are inferior to white people. Even Jon Gruden wasn’t that dumb.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

I just love all the people now who just KNOW that if they lived in 18th century Virginia, they would have been rabid abolitionists and would never have countenanced slavery. They would have clearly led the charge to change the law immediately to outlaw slavery. They just KNOW this. 

SPOILER ALERT: They would have all had slaves and felt zero guilt about it. And things they are doing now will look barbaric 200 years from now. 

How about we stop trying to apply current social constructs to people who lived centuries ago?  

The American liberal believes he has evolved into the most perfect ethical being in human existence. It really is insane, not only the opinions they have of themselves, but also the utter contempt they must have for their entire ancestral lines born before 1950ish or earlier.