6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

That's just fear talking.  You can get any drug you want right now.  All that would change is that you'd take the power away from the hands of the cartels and put it in the hands of the pharmaceutical companies and on top of that you'd be able to tax and regulate it.  

It would have a massive, game-changing effect on illegal immigration (and it's honestly the only way to put a real long term dent in it).  Anyone who's against legalizing drugs is pro illegal immigration.

So you don't feel there's a swath of people out there who would take their first foray into "harder" drugs if they were legal?  Believe me, I see the pluses and minuses to both sides of the argument...but yes I guess it would be fear.  Fear that we'd start seeing higher numbers of OD's than we do already.

17 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Sorry man, I'm perfectly fine with weed but legalizing things like shrooms, pcp, etc.?  Everywhere would look like Kensington.

 

Portugal did this years ago.

6 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

So you don't feel there's a swath of people out there who would take their first foray into "harder" drugs if they were legal?  Believe me, I see the pluses and minuses to both sides of the argument...but yes I guess it would be fear.  Fear that we'd start seeing higher numbers of OD's than we do already.

Thankfully, when it comes to this argument, we have real world examples of it happening.  In 2000, Portugal decriminalized all drugs.

8 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

So you don't feel there's a swath of people out there who would take their first foray into "harder" drugs if they were legal?  Believe me, I see the pluses and minuses to both sides of the argument...but yes I guess it would be fear.  Fear that we'd start seeing higher numbers of OD's than we do already.

Do we really think there is a large group of people being stopped from using cocaine just because it is illegal?

Anyone I know who wants cocaine...gets cocaine.

4 hours ago, vikas83 said:

The real story here is how this guy was free on $1,000 bail in the first place. This scourge of insane DAs in large cities letting multiple time offenders walk free is really an under reported problem. It's getting some attention in SF right now with all the mob burglaries, but there is a story a day in LA of some multiple offender committing another crime. 

Not locking up non-violent offenders for things like smoking weed = good. But that doesn't mean we need to start letting all criminals back out on the street. The lack of common sense is staggering.

Show was way ahead of it's time...

 

50 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine#Revocation

I know Reagan did it,,makes no difference to me,I still despise it

2 minutes ago, Brianfive said:

I know Reagan did it,,makes no difference to me,I still despise it

You're free to support its reimplementation.  A Democrat reintroduces it every 5 years or so and it's immediately squashed by Republicans.

1 hour ago, Brianfive said:

That’s just wrong,,period.  It’s people like you that will keep escalating the narrative  that will result in some kind of new civil war,,this is exactly the kind of garbage that’s fuels all the nut bags on both sides!!  Wtf is wrong will people these days,,, I miss the old days of America when you could believe what the news man told you was 100% fact and zero opinion ,now we get only handpicked facts and all opinion,,, this post truly disgusted me

it sure seems to have fueled you. 

 

 

   

2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Thankfully, when it comes to this argument, we have real world examples of it happening.  In 2000, Portugal decriminalized all drugs.

So by that data, looks like they had a rise of 50% the first year, a lull period for most of the next 14 years and then basically wound up back where they were originally.  I also don't feel we can equate the culture of Portugal to the large urban areas in the US.

3 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

So by that data, looks like they had a rise of 50% the first year, a lull period for most of the next 14 years and then basically wound up back where they were originally.  I also don't feel we can equate the culture of Portugal to the large urban areas in the US.

My guess is there is incomplete data in the most recent time period. When you see a graph turn sharply like that across multiple measures right at the end of a time series it's usually incomplete data.

21 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Do we really think there is a large group of people being stopped from using cocaine just because it is illegal?

Anyone I know who wants cocaine...gets cocaine.

Guess I'm thinking more college campuses than middle-aged white collar execs who wanna do hookers and blow.

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

My guess is there is incomplete data in the most recent time period. When you see a graph turn sharply like that across multiple measures right at the end of a time series it's usually incomplete data.

Yeah, agreed.  Probably right.

Just now, Outlaw said:

Guess I'm thinking more college campuses than middle-aged white collar execs who wanna do hookers and blow.

Yeah, agreed.  Probably right.

Looking at the study it was pulled from, that data is only through 2016. So I think 2015 is the last complete year.

Curious how Covid impacted this.

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Guess I'm thinking more college campuses than middle-aged white collar execs who wanna do hookers and blow.

Yeah, agreed.  Probably right.

Um...getting drugs was a hell of a lot easier in college. 

I mean, Don Jr. was in my class...there was tons of blow everywhere.

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

My guess is there is incomplete data in the most recent time period. When you see a graph turn sharply like that across multiple measures right at the end of a time series it's usually incomplete data.

When did fentanyl start appearing in street drugs. ?  Think that is more a driving force.

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Um...getting drugs was a hell a lot easier in college. 

Yup.  One thing I will say I'm glad of was the opioid crisis hit after I was adulting.  Really the opioid crisis resulted in a steep increase in ODing.  First the pharmaceutical pills, then cartels undercut them with heroin and now the stuff is being cut with fentanyl which a slight miscalculation and you end up with a batch killing a lot of people.  Good thing is the cartel pharmacists know if they F up a batch and kill clients they're dead as well.

3 minutes ago, rambo said:

Yup.  One thing I will say I'm glad of was the opioid crisis hit after I was adulting.  Really the opioid crisis resulted in a steep increase in ODing.  First the pharmaceutical pills, then cartels undercut them with heroin and now the stuff is being cut with fentanyl which a slight miscalculation and you end up with a batch killing a lot of people.  Good thing is the cartel pharmacists know if the F up a batch and kill clients they're dead as well.

Yeah. It's not weed, cocaine, etc. that is killing people. It's "legal" opioids. Once people get cut off on their prescriptions, they turn to stuff like heroin because they are hooked. 

If companies could sell safe, pharmaceutical grade weed, coke, etc. it would save lives from people who get crap on the streets.

Also, college kids generally are spending their parents money on drugs. 

(vikas’ 1,347th reason not to have kids)

12 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yeah. It's not weed, cocaine, etc. that is killing people. It's "legal" opioids. Once people get cut off on their prescriptions, they turn to stuff like heroin because they are hooked. 

If companies could sell safe, pharmaceutical grade weed, coke, etc. it would save lives from people who get crap on the streets.

Valid point.  

41 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Yeah. It's not weed, cocaine, etc. that is killing people. It's "legal" opioids. Once people get cut off on their prescriptions, they turn to stuff like heroin because they are hooked. 

If companies could sell safe, pharmaceutical grade weed, coke, etc. it would save lives from people who get crap on the streets.

It really is the easiest fix to this country and will help minorities and inner cities more than anyone

Yet, people cheered when Obama reduced sentencing disparity between crack and powder cocaine from 100-to-1 to 18-to-1 like he really made a difference. 

 

It’s incredibly expensive to keep people locked up.  The trick is to figure out who is actually really dangerous so you can keep the most dangerous people locked up.  Saying "yeah, that guy should’ve been locked up” is obvious AFTER somebody drives their car through a parade.  Was it before?  I don’t know.  But incarcerating a person for 10 years for selling marijuana near a school isn’t worth the cost.  IMHO

5 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

It’s incredibly expensive to keep people locked up.  The trick is to figure out who is actually really dangerous so you can keep the most dangerous people locked up.  Saying "yeah, that guy should’ve been locked up” is obvious AFTER somebody drives their car through a parade.  Was it before?  I don’t know.  But incarcerating a person for 10 years for selling marijuana near a school isn’t worth the cost.  IMHO

Yes.  Yes, it was.  He was out on bail for hitting his baby mama with his car like a week ago!  Shouldn't have wasted those few precious Kb of data on your Cricket plan to type up that hot turd, I mean, hot take.

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Yes.  Yes, it was.  He was out on bail for hitting his baby mama with his car like a week ago!  Shouldn't have wasted those few precious Kb of data on your Cricket plan to type up that hot turd, I mean, hot take.

Lol, ok.  

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

So by that data, looks like they had a rise of 50% the first year, a lull period for most of the next 14 years and then basically wound up back where they were originally.  I also don't feel we can equate the culture of Portugal to the large urban areas in the US.

Over those 20 years, there have been considerably less OD deaths.  I'm sure it fluctuates year-to-year and it's only for the first 15 years in that chart, but it proves that in the case of Portugal, decriminalizing drugs has been a huge success.  And Portugal has urban areas/immigrants/rough populations just like we do here.

But the greater benefit to the US that doesn't effect Portugal as much is that we have immediate neighbors who's entire countries are devastated by the continuing prohibition of drugs in our country.  And their devastation leads to a mass influx of illegal immigrants.  Again, you really can't be anti-illegal immigration if you support continuing the drug war.

1 hour ago, vikas83 said:

Do we really think there is a large group of people being stopped from using cocaine just because it is illegal?

Anyone I know who wants cocaine...gets cocaine.

"Anyone"  

16 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

Over those 20 years, there have been considerably less OD deaths.  I'm sure it fluctuates year-to-year and it's only for the first 15 years in that chart, but it proves that in the case of Portugal, decriminalizing drugs has been a huge success.  And Portugal has urban areas/immigrants/rough populations just like we do here.

But the greater benefit to the US that doesn't effect Portugal as much is that we have immediate neighbors who's entire countries are devastated by the continuing prohibition of drugs in our country.  And their devastation leads to a mass influx of illegal immigrants.  Again, you really can't be anti-illegal immigration if you support continuing the drug war.

I’m not anti-legalization. I think it solves a host of problems. Just concerned what the potential new ones would be, that’s all.