May 13, 20214 yr 28 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: I can understand this position in a vacuum, but the problem is the interconnectedness of everything in reality. This is the tinderbox of the 21st century, much like the Balkans were in the 20th. The potential for this regional conflict to quickly become a global one is very real. It would be devastating for everyone, not just the primary actors. A UN resolution led to dual claims on the same land. Fun times.
May 13, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: at least we have you starting to grasp all you have is fear. fear is not based in rational thought - its from the emotional center of the brain. and yes it is very powerful. but feeling something very strongly doesnt mean its correct. thats just how humans rationalize the emotion to themselves. Fear can override rationality, but fear can also be based on rationality. Are you saying fear is never realistic? 9 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: even if someone were to dirty bomb Israel...who would they nuke and why? you seem to grasp they wont deploy it anywhere locally. and anything beyond that would basically be an invitation for Russia...or maybe China...to come after them. Something they want no part of. I think you are on solid ground here, so I will yield to that end. It seems highly unlikely and the stupidity of such an action would be unfathomable, but the depths of human stupidity never cease to amaze, so I try not to discount any possibility when nukes are operational. But you can take nukes off the table, if you like. The potential for a devastating conflict is still very real. There would be no winners in such a war. I think it's in our interest that one be avoided. Ultimately, I just want nothing to do with the matter. Let them kill each other off, just don't get caught in the crossfire.
May 13, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, Gannan said: Was just about to say something similar. Israel is a democracy in the middle of fanatical dictatorships in a region where significant national security interests for our country reside. Important strategic partnership. A democracy where half the country can’t vote.
May 13, 20214 yr 37 minutes ago, Gannan said: Important strategic partnership. There is no doubt that it is an important strategic partnership. It's our keystone to the entire region. We really can't do without it, but we could possibly have managed the partnership better.
May 13, 20214 yr I've always thought we should've given the Jewish population Montana after WW2. It's a beautiful part of the world, mountainous, lush, pristine. Very few people lived there. And, on top of that, it's like 30 times bigger than Israel. They could've settled down and set up a new homeland. We really missed the boat on that one.
May 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: I've always thought we should've given the Jewish population Montana after WW2. It's a beautiful part of the world, mountainous, lush, pristine. Very few people lived there. And, on top of that, it's like 30 times bigger than Israel. They could've settled down and set up a new homeland. We really missed the boat on that one. God, I love Montana.
May 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said: God, I love Montana. And the Mormons would've loved to have the Jewish people so close by. Isn't there something in their scripture about being a lost Jewish tribe? If there isn't, there should be.
May 13, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: Fear can override rationality, but fear can also be based on rationality. Are you saying fear is never realistic? I think you are on solid ground here, so I will yield to that end. It seems highly unlikely and the stupidity of such an action would be unfathomable, but the depths of human stupidity never cease to amaze, so I try not to discount any possibility when nukes are operational. But you can take nukes off the table, if you like. The potential for a devastating conflict is still very real. There would be no winners in such a war. I think it's in our interest that one be avoided. Ultimately, I just want nothing to do with the matter. Let them kill each other off, just don't get caught in the crossfire. you really need to stop with the exaggerated strawmen to miscast your opponents position. its juvenile nonsense. there can be a winner in wars - if they are fought to win. something we got away from since Vietnam, really. and would you not say the conflict is already devastating? sort of the nature of war, no? just look at all the exaggerated language you use trying to evoke an emotional response. unfathomable...devastating... get past the emotion and game things out 14 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: A UN resolution led to dual claims on the same land. Fun times. too bad there was never a war to decide it...
May 13, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: I've always thought we should've given the Jewish population Montana after WW2. It's a beautiful part of the world, mountainous, lush, pristine. Very few people lived there. And, on top of that, it's like 30 times bigger than Israel. They could've settled down and set up a new homeland. We really missed the boat on that one. and what native american tribe would have claimed it was theirs instead?
May 13, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: A democracy where half the country can’t vote. Um they do vote. They voted to have Hamas lead them.
May 13, 20214 yr Just now, ToastJenkins said: and what native american tribe would have claimed it was theirs instead? There's plenty of Montana to go around.
May 13, 20214 yr 22 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said: You're muddying the waters here. We're not talking about all wars, we're talking hypothetically about a particular war in a particularly unstable part of the world that would necessarily involve a global contingent of co-combatants. I highly doubt that it could be contained to a local conflict. I was initially referring to a possible nuclear war with that comment. I yielded to that end in recognizing that to be highly unlikely, but the potential for a war in this situation that is extremely damaging to all sides is still a reasonable inference to draw. But I'm actually curious about the question I asked earlier. Do you think that fear is never rational or reasonable? Is hesitancy always just irrational fear? Or, in your mind, can apprehension to engage in conflict ever be grounded in reason?
May 13, 20214 yr 6 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said: This is a pretty bold statement requiring proof, and that article doesn't really offer it. It is an editorial at best, a propaganda piece at worst. Ultimately, this is well beyond the issue of a military confrontation. I could find you a lot of pro-israel sources, but you would not believe it I suppose. So I have found something from one of the best friends of the Palestinians: https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools Actually, it's doesn't even require proof. If the terrorists didn't use their own civilians as a human shield - we would have finished them in one day. During my army service, the common tactics of the terrorists was to hide in a house of Palestinian civilians. The simple way for us was to blow up the entire house, without risking our lives. We have never done that. The orders were to avoid the civilian causalities at all costs. The terrorists knew that, so they were waiting for us to enter the building. Many of our soldiers were killed just because they had to take down the terrorist without hitting a civilians. Hamas still uses the same tactics, and they became much more efficient in it.
May 13, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, Dave Moss said: If Israel wants to exist inside its pre-1967 borders, I’m fine with it Sorry, we forgot to ask your permission about the kind of the boards we supposed to exist in. I am just calling our prime minister, to get back to Mr. Dave Moss, so you can share with him your enormous knowledge about my country.
May 13, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, ilross2003 said: Sorry, we forgot to ask your permission about the kind of the boards we supposed to exist in. I am just calling our prime minister, to get back to Mr. Dave Moss, so you can share with him your enormous knowledge about my country. Your borders change on a daily basis as you take more Palestinian territory. I’m sure even the most ignorant Israelis know that
May 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Dave Moss said: Your borders change on a daily basis as you take more Palestinian territory . I’m sure even in the most ignorant Israelis know that Let's not start about the ignorance, mister Expert.
May 13, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, ilross2003 said: Let's not start about the ignorance, mister Expert. So ya'll want Montana or no?
May 13, 20214 yr 18 minutes ago, ilross2003 said: I could find you a lot of pro-israel sources, but you would not believe it I suppose. So I have found something from one of the best friends of the Palestinians: https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-condemns-placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools So, 7 years ago, the UN found rockets stored in an empty school building. Ok. 18 minutes ago, ilross2003 said: During my army service, the common tactics of the terrorists was to hide in a house of Palestinian civilians. The simple way for us was to blow up the entire house, without risking our lives. We have never done that. The orders were to avoid the civilian causalities at all costs. The terrorists knew that, so they were waiting for us to enter the building. Many of our soldiers were killed just because they had to take down the terrorist without hitting a civilians. Hamas still uses the same tactics, and they became much more efficient in it. Still doesn't make it reasonable to level entire apartment buildings because there might be a few terrorists inside.
May 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: So ya'll want Montana or no? Absolutely! But I fear it's too late for this... Where have you been in 1948??? 🙂
May 13, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said: So, 7 years ago, the UN found rockets stored in an empty school building. Ok. If even UN found some rockets in the schools, it suggests that there are much much more... Still doesn't make it reasonable to level entire apartment buildings because there might be a few terrorists inside. I see your point. It depends. The reality is much more complicated than it seems to be. The decisions are not easy.
May 13, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: So, 7 years ago, the UN found rockets stored in an empty school building. Ok. Still doesn't make it reasonable to level entire apartment buildings because there might be a few terrorists inside. How do I quote multiple sections of a post?
May 13, 20214 yr 44 minutes ago, ilross2003 said: How do I quote multiple sections of a post? There's a "multiquote" feature that you can use by clicking the + symbol next to "quote," but that's for linking together multiple separate posts. If I want to quote different parts of a longer post, I just create multiple quotes of the same post and edit them in the boxes.
May 13, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, Dave Moss said: A democracy where half the country can’t vote. It’s almost as if Israel thinks that doubling the electorate with a people that hate them would be a dumb idea.
May 14, 20214 yr 12 hours ago, TEW said: It’s almost as if Israel thinks that doubling the electorate with a people that hate them would be a dumb idea. Actually, there is a distinction between the Israeli Arabs that are citizens of Israel just like anyone else, and have the same rights, including the right to vote in the Israeli Elections; and the Palestinian Arabs that are not a citizens of the State of Israel, hence they do not vote in the Israeli Elections. The Palestinian Arabs vote in the Palestinian National Authority elections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority So technically, they already have their own country, but, they actually failed to make anything creative with their economy, living mostly on the international aid money and our infrastructure. The West Bank is ruled by Fatah, but Gaza is ruled by Hamas (they don't like each other very much, but whatever). Since we have withdrawn from Gaza in 2005, we had the agreement with the Palestinian Authority. But Hamas won the democratic elections in Gaza, ignored the agreement and started bombing of the Israeli civilians. It's not surprising, since their chapter "rejects a two-state solution, stating that the conflict cannot be resolved "except through jihad". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas So, the majority of the innocent Palestinians wanted Hamas to rule them (and, by the way, Hamas is responsible for most of this, and much more): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks The results of the elections are hardly surprising, because of the way they are being taught in their educational system: https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/comprehensive-report-reveals-endemic-hate-education-in-palestinian-schools-632057
May 14, 20214 yr 19 hours ago, VanHammersly said: I've always thought we should've given the Jewish population Montana after WW2. It's a beautiful part of the world, mountainous, lush, pristine. Very few people lived there. And, on top of that, it's like 30 times bigger than Israel. They could've settled down and set up a new homeland. We really missed the boat on that one.
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