39 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I made sure to use very specific search terms, lol.

 

 

Cooking it and then cutting it out during the smoking process sounds like a good idea, I'm just worried about messing up the whole shoulder or it falling apart while trying to do that since i've never done it before. It'd be a bummer to have a dried-out section, but it maybe it won't matter so much once it's all mixed together and the fat mingles.

I find it's easier to cut it out before cooking it. There's a fat line that you can follow to cut it out, and it's just easier when you're not dealing with hot meat. I wouldn't do it on this one since you already seasoned it, but look into it for your next. There's plenty of YouTube videos showing how to competition trim a pork butt, they'll all include a different version of how to cut that muscle out. 

 

I really did up the water pan this time: white and sweet onion with garlic, honeycrisp apples and oranges, along with some fresh sage and mint. Really hoping for taste with maximum depth and complexity...

 

The Cuisinart is a great value for a couple hundred bucks. I've only had to seriously refuel this thing one time so far; it's been low, slow, and steady since 7:45 this morning with the temp holding awesomely, pretty much between 200-250 all day and mostly hovering around 225...


 

Holy hell, that took forever! 20.5 hours to be precise. I am never smoking at that low of a temperature again. I'm not dipping below 250 next time. I eventually just cranked it close to 300 degrees for the final hour or so. Temp readings were kind of weird, because I finally got to 203, but the thicker spot was at 209. Doesn't make much sense and hope I didn't dry it out, but im optimistic. Gonna go to bed and pull this bad boy in a couple hours.

 

2 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Holy hell, that took forever! 20.5 hours to be precise. I am never smoking at that low of a temperature again. I'm not dipping below 250 next time. I eventually just cranked it close to 300 degrees for the final hour or so. Temp readings were kind of weird, because I finally got to 203, but the thicker spot was at 209. Doesn't make much sense and hope I didn't dry it out, but im optimistic. Gonna go to bed and pull this bad boy in a couple hours.

 

Honestly mine almost always take that long. I always smoke at 220. Just seems to be a much better texture than when I crank the temps higher. 
 

Although my mental math was way off yesterday and I put it in a few hours too early. Now I need to figure out whether I try to hold this thing for 6-7 hours (it’s a 10 pounder) or just rest for an hour, pull, then reheat before everyone shows up. 
 

Or I could pull it, put it in a roasting pan covered with foil and keep it in the oven at a low temp to just keep it warm

9 hours ago, nipples said:

Honestly mine almost always take that long. I always smoke at 220. Just seems to be a much better texture than when I crank the temps higher. 
 

Although my mental math was way off yesterday and I put it in a few hours too early. Now I need to figure out whether I try to hold this thing for 6-7 hours (it’s a 10 pounder) or just rest for an hour, pull, then reheat before everyone shows up. 
 

Or I could pull it, put it in a roasting pan covered with foil and keep it in the oven at a low temp to just keep it warm

 

Yeah, this stuff looks great. Mightve been worth the wait. It's pulling perfectly.

 

What I'm gonna do is serve this up later using some of these juices to just warm it up real quick on the stove top. When it finished cooking, I poured off the liquid remnants of the water pan, and I also got this water in jars that had the smoking wood soaking in it all day. I'll mix the two together, along with some leftover rub, get it nice and hot, then you can just douse the meat in the juice for a good 30 seconds and strain with a slotted spoon  It'll be hot, juicy, and flavorful AF. Right now, I'm just eating it as-is with a glass of zinfandel 

 

Enjoy the holiday everyone!

 

 

 

 

 

Couple things, the smoke in your pic looks like it's billowing a bit too much, you want it thinner and more wispy. I'm guessing your temp at the wood box is a bit too high? Ideally, you want a few probes in there for a vertical smoker so you can read the temp in different spots. When I do brisket, I've got a probe in the point, a point in the flat above it, and a third probe underneath both to check my chamber temp.

Also, don't be afraid to try to wrap it. You went 20hrs because it stalled out, but with a wrap, you could've finished in 10hrs maybe. Once you start to stall, your meat won't absorb much more smoke after that point anyway and if you're worried about a wrap softening the bark, you can unwrap to finish, hand torch it, use butcher paper, or all the above. The wrap with allow the rendered fat to better baste the meat, and also prevents it from drying out. Best of both worlds.

31 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Couple things, the smoke in your pic looks like it's billowing a bit too much, you want it thinner and more wispy. I'm guessing your temp at the wood box is a bit too high? Ideally, you want a few probes in there for a vertical smoker so you can read the temp in different spots. When I do brisket, I've got a probe in the point, a point in the flat above it, and a third probe underneath both to check my chamber temp.

Also, don't be afraid to try to wrap it. You went 20hrs because it stalled out, but with a wrap, you could've finished in 10hrs maybe. Once you start to stall, your meat won't absorb much more smoke after that point anyway and if you're worried about a wrap softening the bark, you can unwrap to finish, hand torch it, use butcher paper, or all the above. The wrap with allow the rendered fat to better baste the meat, and also prevents it from drying out. Best of both worlds.

I've actually been seeing some experiments that suggest you want a thicker smoke in the beginning of your cook. It gives a better smoked flavor but doesn't give it the bitter flavor that we think it does. 

And, while I'm a fan of wrapping, if he keeps it unwrapped it will render the fat cap better. If he's catching the drippings and adding them into the finished product,  it will probably turn out just as good if not better than wrapping 

51 minutes ago, BFit said:

I've actually been seeing some experiments that suggest you want a thicker smoke in the beginning of your cook. It gives a better smoked flavor but doesn't give it the bitter flavor that we think it does. 

And, while I'm a fan of wrapping, if he keeps it unwrapped it will render the fat cap better. If he's catching the drippings and adding them into the finished product,  it will probably turn out just as good if not better than wrapping 

Fat cap (subcutaneous) doesn't really render much either way, so I trim mine way down to about half an inch. A good pork butt already has plenty of marbling (intramuscular) that will render out completely and baste the meat.

Not really following you on the smoke experiments though. I've always seen that you want smoldering wood, not full combustion. It's super easy to tell with fruit woods when you're burning too hot because it'll smell more acrid like cigarettes, rather than that sweet smell you'd normally expect. A bit more difficult to tell with mesquite or oak for a brisket, but visually it's still apparent. I've ruined ribs before with too much thick smoke and it tasted like I was eating burnt tobacco instead of cherry wood. My cousin who used to smoke a pack a day didn't mind it though, oddly enough.

37 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Fat cap (subcutaneous) doesn't really render much either way, so I trim mine way down to about half an inch. A good pork butt already has plenty of marbling (intramuscular) that will render out completely and baste the meat.

Not really following you on the smoke experiments though. I've always seen that you want smoldering wood, not full combustion. It's super easy to tell with fruit woods when you're burning too hot because it'll smell more acrid like cigarettes, rather than that sweet smell you'd normally expect. A bit more difficult to tell with mesquite or oak for a brisket, but visually it's still apparent. I've ruined ribs before with too much thick smoke and it tasted like I was eating burnt tobacco instead of cherry wood. My cousin who used to smoke a pack a day didn't mind it though, oddly enough.

The smoldering is what produces thick white smoke. You want almost full combustion,  that's what will give you the thin blue, almost clear smoke. Full combustion will be clear smoke and not give you much flavor. 

Anyway, here's the YouTube video I saw suggesting thicker smoke at the beginning. I still don't do it, but that's only because I'm used to running mine a certain way

 

 

47 minutes ago, BFit said:

The smoldering is what produces thick white smoke. You want almost full combustion,  that's what will give you the thin blue, almost clear smoke. Full combustion will be clear smoke and not give you much flavor. 

Anyway, here's the YouTube video I saw suggesting thicker smoke at the beginning. I still don't do it, but that's only because I'm used to running mine a certain way

 

 

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology then, I've only had that acrid cigarette taste when the wood chunks burned too hot, which I was referring to as full combustion. I needed to dial down the temp down from there to get the more wispy, slow trailing smoke. 

11 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Couple things, the smoke in your pic looks like it's billowing a bit too much, you want it thinner and more wispy. I'm guessing your temp at the wood box is a bit too high? Ideally, you want a few probes in there for a vertical smoker so you can read the temp in different spots. When I do brisket, I've got a probe in the point, a point in the flat above it, and a third probe underneath both to check my chamber temp.

Also, don't be afraid to try to wrap it. You went 20hrs because it stalled out, but with a wrap, you could've finished in 10hrs maybe. Once you start to stall, your meat won't absorb much more smoke after that point anyway and if you're worried about a wrap softening the bark, you can unwrap to finish, hand torch it, use butcher paper, or all the above. The wrap with allow the rendered fat to better baste the meat, and also prevents it from drying out. Best of both worlds.

 

In the first pic, I had literally just started the smoker, so I was using some dry wood and the top vent was open as I was getting it up to temp. I do like to ensure that it has a nice, thick smoke, though. I know all about the stall and have read about wrapping it, but honestly, I generally avoid shortcuts when it comes to cooking anything. I'm usually just in it for the long-haul and, since I wasn't serving anyone that day, was just content to ride it out. Also, yes, I do want that perfect bark (although, that was a bit hampered by the yahoos at the butcher trimming off the fat, which I didn't want them to do). Either way, at 225 or so, that is just going to take forever. Just think that you're targeting a meat temp that's only 20 degrees or so below the temp in the environment. The meat was not dry and was really perfectly moist in the area that was at 203, maybe a little drier in the spot that was 209 which could be blamed on my impatience and finishing it at 300. Either way, once it was all pulled and mixed together, there was no way to tell the difference. The only real improvement I could see here in cooking it a little higher and cutting the smoking time in half is that it was really smokey in flavor. Now, don't get me wrong, it tasted wonderful. However, smoking it for more like 12 hours instead of 20 would probably allow more of the seasonings to come out in the flavor instead if being drowned out by wood/smoke. 

 

I feel like I'm dialing in, though. Next time, I'm gonna try to keep it locked on at 250-270 and see what that does.

8 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology then, I've only had that acrid cigarette taste when the wood chunks burned too hot, which I was referring to as full combustion. I needed to dial down the temp down from there to get the more wispy, slow trailing smoke. 

 

Give the wood a good soak in water before you dump them in the coals. It keeps your temp regulated, and since the wood burns at a much lower temperature, literally just smoldering instead of lighting on fire, I'd imagine you get a much better flavor.

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Give the wood a good soak in water before you dump them in the coals. It keeps your temp regulated, and since the wood burn at a much lower temperature, literally just smoldering instead of lighting on fire, I'd imagine you get a much better flavor.

I've read that soaking chips/chunks doesn't do anything aside from prolonging the smoke a bit. So really only makes sense to soak half of them to offset the reload time a bit. Whatever water they absorb gets steamed out pretty quick according to the experiments from the amazing ribs site.

I am hard on the no soak train. Maybe it's because I'm using an offset and cooking mostly with wood, but wet wood just burns worse. Wet wood is going to give you a thicker white smoke.

Also, here was today's cook. Beef back ribs (just a cheap snack), chicken thighs, wings and baby back ribs. 

Not sure how much the thickness of the smoke will affect the finished product, but it's worth some experimentation. If anything, though, I do like that the wood burns slower, so I'm only going through about 2.5 bags of wood instead of 4 or 5, and I don't have to worry about it raising the temperature of the smoking environment much. Ideally, the wood would soak overnight to really get enough moisture. Maybe it's my setup, but if I throw dry chunks on top of red-hot coals, they will be fully on fire in minutes and raising my temperature considerably from what I remember. I'll have to play with this more next time, though.

Added a small pellet fueled pizza oven for football season. I frequently make small flatbreads of different types on football Sundays. Goes great with wings and the like.

On 9/6/2022 at 10:50 AM, EaglesRocker97 said:

Not sure how much the thickness of the smoke will affect the finished product, but it's worth some experimentation. If anything, though, I do like that the wood burns slower, so I'm only going through about 2.5 bags of wood instead of 4 or 5, and I don't have to worry about it raising the temperature of the smoking environment much. Ideally, the wood would soak overnight to really get enough moisture. Maybe it's my setup, but if I throw dry chunks on top of red-hot coals, they will be fully on fire in minutes and raising my temperature considerably from what I remember. I'll have to play with this more next time, though.

Dirty smoke makes a weird, bitter taste. Thin blue smoke is hard to see and give the best flavor.

23 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

Dirty smoke makes a weird, bitter taste. Thin blue smoke is hard to see and give the best flavor.

What exactly qualifies as "dirty" smoke? Do you just mean thick smoke? Should I just use less wood when I load and reload? I'm bascially smoking with charcoal but I add cherry and applewood to deepen the flavoring.

1 hour ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

What exactly qualifies as "dirty" smoke? Do you just mean thick smoke? Should I just use less wood when I load and reload? I'm bascially smoking with charcoal but I add cherry and applewood to deepen the flavoring.

Oh I didn't read back that far. If it's just some wood chips in a charcoal grill it's not going to matter. My bad. I was talking about stick burners and even pellet grills. Occasionally they give off thick, bad tasting smoke. If it's real billowy and "thick"  it can leave behind a nasty taste.

9 minutes ago, Boogyman said:

Oh I didn't read back that far. If it's just some wood chips in a charcoal grill it's not going to matter. My bad. I was talking about stick burners and even pellet grills. Occasionally they give off thick, bad tasting smoke. If it's real billowy and "thick"  it can leave behind a nasty taste.

I use chunks and try to give them a good soak in water to keep them at a smoldering level. Chips I always felt like burned up too fast, but maybe that's better than loading large pieces in a charcoal smoker. Regardless, I thought the smoke flavor was great, just a little too dominant. So, next time, I want to smoke a little higher and hopefully have it done in 10-12 hours instead of 18-20.

Just now, EaglesRocker97 said:

I use chunks and try to give them a good soak in water to keep them at a smoldering level. Chips I always felt like burned up too fast, but maybe that's better than loading large pieces in a charcoal smoker. Regardless, I thought the smoke flavor was great, just a little too dominant. So, next time, I want to smoke a little higher and hopefully have it done in 10-12 hours instead of 18-20.

Use smaller pieces if you had too much smoke? I don't grill on charcoal much anymore, when I use wood it's usually over my Breeo fireplace.

Most of my experience is on a pellet smoker or gas grill, but I do have an old stick smoker that I rarely use because the former is just so much easier lol.

On 9/6/2022 at 1:57 PM, BFit said:

Also, here was today's cook. Beef back ribs (just a cheap snack), chicken thighs, wings and baby back ribs. 

I'm coming to your place for food when I'm in Philly