1 hour ago, mr_hunt said:

old data but idk how much things would've changed...

 

Yeah the counter argument, which may have merit, is that while regulating suppliers should help curb and shrink the black market, any gains might be offset by the corresponding surge in demand. I don't buy the argument that demand remains static because people who want sex/drugs will get it no matter what and that laws don't have any effect as a deterrent. 

Speaking from personal experience, I only started to buy edibles after a decade or more since I late smoked a joint precisely because of repealing of laws/stigmatization.

I don’t think demand will go up that much unless they really get wild and say you don’t even have to wear a condom

14 minutes ago, Seventy_Yard_FG said:

Before raising these concerns, did you take a moment to consider the actual circumstances that cause these immigrants to be allegedly coerced?  And then did you think about whether that sub category of worker would be more numerous before or after legalization?  

I'm not arguing one way or another. I was mostly pointing out  where the majority of "exploitation" concerns lay. 

Just now, vikas83 said:

Being a parent is hard. It's not society's job to forego freedoms to make the job easier.

No, but it is society's responsibility to be a "healthy" (from a social perspective) as possible.  Legalizing prostitution will create, IMO, many many many more problems than it fixes.  Raising baby girl is only a small part of my objection.

1 hour ago, paco said:

Something tells me legalizing this would not do a lot to fix the problem of being too poor.  

 

Also, am I the only person that struggled reading this? 

Yes but that's not meant as an insult.  I just doubt anyone else read it.

Just now, DEagle7 said:

I'm not arguing one way or another. I was mostly pointing out  where the majority of "exploitation" concerns lay. 

Majority, aka the idiots who go along to get along and never actually do the homework before election and vote because it makes them feel good in some bizarre way

9 minutes ago, paco said:

  

Kind of the point.  I don't want to see it expanded.  Its already tough out there to raise a girl and have her know her self worth\have a positive image of herself.

Yeah I hear ya, believe me. It's partly why I don't freak out over this metoo stuff. Some over correction is tolerable as long as we settle towards a mean where being "alpha" doesn't mean it's socially acceptable to go around grabbing a girl's ass at a bar after buying her a drink. Or capitalizing on a situation where a girl is drunk and separated from her friends. Or any number of other things I witnessed in college that was pretty unsettling.

1 minute ago, paco said:

No, but it is society's responsibility to be a "healthy" (from a social perspective) as possible.  Legalizing prostitution will create, IMO, many many many more problems than it fixes.  Raising baby girl is only a small part of my objection.

But in the United States, the government is supposed to respect individual liberty (I know, we can have a good laugh). That's why people should be free to smoke, drink, do drugs and engage in prostitution so long as they don't impact the freedom of others (e.g., drunk driving should be illegal since it puts others at risk). Just because something "creates problems" (which I disagree with) isn't a legitimate reason to make it illegal, nor can we make things illegal that you believe aren't "healthy" for society. Morality, "societal health" -- these are subjective, not objective.

12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Yes, because everyone else glanced at who posted it and kept on cruising.

 

3 minutes ago, Shepard Wong said:

Yes but that's not meant as an insult.  I just doubt anyone else read it.

I see my mistake and will correct this misstep in the future.  Thank you for your feedback.

You’re also ignoring potential benefits to legal sex work.  How many men are driven to crime or drugs simply because they can’t find anyone to be intimate with? How many beat their wives or get into stupid relationships because they’re lonely not because they like their partner

2 minutes ago, paco said:

 

I see my mistake and will correct this misstep in the future.  Thank you for your feedback.

Now wait a sec my iPhone is old and the auto correct and grammar aren’t perfect and I try to type fast

40 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We don't make things that are immoral (in your opinion) illegal since morality is subjective. Two adults making a porno or engaging in sex for money doesn't impact the rights or freedoms of anyone else. By your logic, we should make alcohol and cigarettes illegal. Spoiler alert -- we gave into Puritanical nonsense and banned alcohol, and it was so stupid we had to undo it. 

If you don't want your kids exposed to porn/prostitution/drugs/etc. then do your job as a parent and install your sense of morality into them.

 

40 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We don't make things that are immoral (in your opinion) illegal since morality is subjective. Two adults making a porno or engaging in sex for money doesn't impact the rights or freedoms of anyone else. By your logic, we should make alcohol and cigarettes illegal. Spoiler alert -- we gave into Puritanical nonsense and banned alcohol, and it was so stupid we had to undo it. 

If you don't want your kids exposed to porn/prostitution/drugs/etc. then do your job as a parent and install your sense of morality into them.

This is a good argument.  However, if you stop and think about how demoralized and affected women are (100% of them not just some of them) the abuse and rape and disease and even murders and the suffering they go through your argument falls short

also, we as a society are supposed to be easing the suffering of people. Think of everything that’s been going on to ease the gays suffering (just an example maybe not a great one but) 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

But in the United States, the government is supposed to respect individual liberty (I know, we can have a good laugh). That's why people should be free to smoke, drink, do drugs and engage in prostitution so long as they don't impact the freedom of others (e.g., drunk driving should be illegal since it puts others at risk). Just because something "creates problems" (which I disagree with) isn't a legitimate reason to make it illegal, nor can we make things illegal that you believe aren't "healthy" for society. Morality, "societal health" -- these are subjective, not objective.

I guess we need to define the problems so they cannot be easily dismissed.  Legal or not many of these women will be drugged, beaten, and\or raped.  The safety of people in a legal profession is absolutely within the realm of a proper society's responsibility and laws should be made to protect them, even if those laws end up banning it.  

 

And yes, you can make the exact same argument for porn and I would be ok with it being made illegal as well.

2 minutes ago, paco said:

I guess we need to define the problems so they cannot be easily dismissed.  Legal or not many of these women will be drugged, beaten, and\or raped.  The safety of people in a legal profession is absolutely within the realm of a proper society's responsibility and laws should be made to protect them, even if those laws end up banning it.  

 

And yes, you can make the exact same argument for porn and I would be ok with it being made illegal as well.

That's happening now, but the women are afraid to go to the police and report it since what they are doing is illegal. If prostitution were legal, or at least decriminalized, the women could actually report incidents to the police without fear of being locked up. So my way makes it safer.

1 minute ago, paco said:

I guess we need to define the problems so they cannot be easily dismissed.  Legal or not many of these women will be drugged, beaten, and\or raped.  The safety of people in a legal profession is absolutely within the realm of a proper society's responsibility and laws should be made to protect them, even if those laws end up banning it.  

 

And yes, you can make the exact same argument for porn and I would be ok with it being made illegal as well.

Ok then.  I’ll tell you what creates a lot more problems.  There’s a lot of narcissistic ass holes who get into government and fling accusations that lots of things that they just don’t personally like "cause problems”.  There’s often no way to refute them because you can never see what the problems would be if you tried to change the law.  So how do we sort the situations that cause problems from the situations that narcissistic ass holes just don’t like 

Just now, vikas83 said:

That's happening now, but the women are afraid to go to the police and report it since what they are doing is illegal. If prostitution were legal, or at least decriminalized, the women could actually report incidents to the police without fear of being locked up. So my way makes it safer.

Another good argument.  But again.  Legalizing a business where women are abused sexually and mentally trumps that

47 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

We don't make things that are immoral (in your opinion) illegal since morality is subjective. Two adults making a porno or engaging in sex for money doesn't impact the rights or freedoms of anyone else. By your logic, we should make alcohol and cigarettes illegal. Spoiler alert -- we gave into Puritanical nonsense and banned alcohol, and it was so stupid we had to undo it. 

If you don't want your kids exposed to porn/prostitution/drugs/etc. then do your job as a parent and install your sense of morality into them.

Right, but it's the degree of subjectivity that's the crux of the issue. Almost everyone would agree (hence less subjectivity) that killing is immoral and thus is broadly illegal with very few exceptions. Same for stealing, cheating, lying, etc with increasingly narrower scopes (more subjectivity based on circumstances of offense.) Most people agree that alcohol should be legal, marijuana is getting to that point as well. I think we will, and should, get to a point where prostitution is broadly legal or decriminalized but it'll probably take a while to get there for some of the same reasons being brought up.

Edit:  One more issue for society as a whole:  Disease.

 

I don't care how well you regulate it, this WILL spread STD's.  Since everyone is trying to use porn as an argument for legal prostitution, lets look at the porn industry.  A dirty secret is that a much, much larger % of the "stars" live with herpes than the general population.  How many times has there been an actor testing positive for HIV and they have to shut down production.

 

Guess what, that WILL be an issue for society as a whole, except it will be exponentially worse. We are talking about an entire population now at risk vs a fairly closed circle of people.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

That's happening now, but the women are afraid to go to the police and report it since what they are doing is illegal. If prostitution were legal, or at least decriminalized, the women could actually report incidents to the police without fear of being locked up. So my way makes it safer.

So now when they are beaten, drugged, and\or raped they can file a report now?  

 

Nevermind, my mind is changed.  This is a great idea.

1 minute ago, paco said:

Edit:  One more issue for society as a whole:  Disease.

 

I don't care how well you regulate it, this WILL spread STD's.  Since everyone is trying to use porn as an argument for legal prostitution, lets look at the porn industry.  A dirty secret is that a much, much larger % of the "stars" live with herpes than the general population.  How many times has there been an actor testing positive for HIV and they have to shut down production.

 

Guess what, that WILL be an issue for society as a whole, except it will be exponentially worse. We are talking about an entire population now at risk vs a fairly closed circle of people.

If there's one thing I've learned over the past two years, it's that after some given period of time most Americans stop caring all that much about spreading disease.

Just now, paco said:

Edit:  One more issue for society as a whole:  Disease.

 

I don't care how well you regulate it, this WILL spread STD's.  Since everyone is trying to use porn as an argument for legal prostitution, lets look at the porn industry.  A dirty sceret is that a much, much larger % of the "stars" live with herpes than the general population.  How many times has there been an actor testing positive for HIV and they have to shut down production.

 

Guess what, that WILL be an issue for society as a whole, except it will be exponentially worse. We are talking about an entire population now at risk vs a fairly closed circle of people.

Dude, are you under the impression that prostitution doesn't happen now? Do you think legalizing it will massively expand the number of providers or customers? Spoiler alert here -- it's already a MASSIVE industry. Legalizing and regulating it will lead to STD testing like they have in the brothels in Nevada, helping to reduce the spread.

You keep making arguments for legalization.

2 minutes ago, paco said:

So now when they are beaten, drugged, and\or raped they can file a report now?  

 

Nevermind, my mind is changed.  This is a great idea.

Being able to report a crime > not being able to report a crime. 

I love this fantasy land you live in where because something is illegal, it doesn't happen. 

You'll be stunned to find out people do cocaine.

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Dude, are you under the impression that prostitution doesn't happen now? Do you think legalizing it will massively expand the number of providers or customers? Spoiler alert here -- it's already a MASSIVE industry. Legalizing and regulating it will lead to STD testing like they have in the brothels in Nevada, helping to reduce the spread.

You keep making arguments for legalization.

You changed my mind.   They can file police reports!  Disease doesn't get spread when regulated!

 

True or False:  Pot use in the states went up or down when made legal

 

Secondly:

2 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Dude, are you under the impression that prostitution doesn't happen now?

Knock off the strawman.  You're better than this

4 minutes ago, paco said:

Edit:  One more issue for society as a whole:  Disease.

 

I don't care how well you regulate it, this WILL spread STD's.  Since everyone is trying to use porn as an argument for legal prostitution, lets look at the porn industry.  A dirty secret is that a much, much larger % of the "stars" live with herpes than the general population.  How many times has there been an actor testing positive for HIV and they have to shut down production.

 

Guess what, that WILL be an issue for society as a whole, except it will be exponentially worse. We are talking about an entire population now at risk vs a fairly closed circle of people.

 

1 minute ago, paco said:

You changed my mind.   They can file police reports!  Disease doesn't get spread when regulated!

 

True or False:  Pot use in the states went up or down when made legal

Up. 

True or False: legalization lead to lower prices and safer, regulated products?