FWIW, Saints head coach Dennis Allen previously served as head coach of the Raiders for 2012, 2013 and part of 2014 before he was fired mid-season.  His won-loss record as a head coach is 8-28

2 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I expect he'll move up for a player from 15 with a 3 or 2 and then maybe move back from 18

There would have to be a guy they really like to move up especially to give up their 2nd for.

18 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Eagles took a chance that the Colts and Dolphins wouldn’t be good and both were double digit win teams. All in all I don’t think it matters much, because two firsts in the 2023 draft probably still let’s them do whatever they want so if they need to get too the upper end of the draft they should be able to get it done. 

Between two first's next year and an extra second in 2024, that's a lot of ammunition to move around in the 2023 draft

11 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

All in all I don’t think it matters much, because two firsts in the 2023 draft probably still let’s them do whatever they want so if they need to get too the upper end of the draft they should be able to get it done. 

Yeah, ultimately whether the raw return on this trade is good or not will be determined by where the Saints finish ... could be tremendous (Saints in bottom 10), could be awful (Saints make a playoff run).  But from a strategic standpoint, their biggest need in 2023 will be if Hurts is a disaster in the 2022 season.  In that case, they will have their own (presumably) very high draft pick plus whatever the Saints pick is, which should at least be high enough to enable them to put a package together to get very high in the draft for a QB.  If the Saints pick ends up being very high, so much the better.

On the other hand, if Hurts is actually good in 2022, they are free-rolling on adding some talent around him with whatever the Saints pick provides.  Regardless, it is strategically smart for them to at least give themselves a chance to have a very high pick in the 2023 draft.

I understand the issue with not wanting to draft 3 first rounders from a cap space issue.

But, this team needs around 5 first rounders this year to fix all the broken parts.

The NFL Draft Chart tells me that the Eagles could still package our 2 first rounders plus something to get up to #3 or #4 overall in the first round.

Do I think they'll do that? Not likely. My bet is on 2 BPA in the first. Defense please.

Howie may not be done dealing. He could trade up. He could trade back.

There's still deals to be done and plenty of time before the draft.

24 days until the draft.

3 hours ago, kiwieagle said:

Between two first's next year and an extra second in 2024, that's a lot of ammunition to move around in the 2023 draft

I’m not sure why anyone dislikes this deal. We have been saying for sometime now this team lacks talent and they’re giving too much money to older veteran players. Now they have set themselves up over the next few years with multiple higher round picks (not their standard 5 7th round picks) picks over the next three years. That’s giving them a legit opportunity to build within the draft. 

1 minute ago, CouchKing said:

I understand the issue with not wanting to draft 3 first rounders from a cap space issue.

But, this team needs around 5 first rounders this year to fix all the broken parts.

The NFL Draft Chart tells me that the Eagles could still package our 2 first rounders plus something to get up to #3 or #4 overall in the first round.

Do I think they'll do that? Not likely. My bet is on 2 BPA in the first. Defense please.

Howie may not be done dealing. He could trade up. He could trade back.

There's still deals to be done and plenty of time before the draft.

24 days until the draft.

They’re not going to be able to fix all of their problems in one draft regardless. Lots of needs. Lots of holes, and the quarterback is still a huge question. To ensure they have a chance to replace Hurts if need be is enough of a reason alone to make this move especially if they’re not to enamored with these current rookie quarterbacks. 

I don’t know how anyone could be upset about this trade.  To simplify (seems necessary for some of you):

From the NFL draft value chart:

• the value of the picks NO acquired = 1887.2
• the value of the 2022 picks we acquired = 997
• the difference = 890.2 which is the equivalent of the 18th overall pick in the current draft

Would you trade the 18th pick in this year's draft for a 2023 1st and a 2024 2nd?  I sure as hell would.  I’ll be surprised if NO is a 0.500 team or better:  new HC replacing one that was a brilliant offensive kind and a new QB (likely) that is probably going to sit behind Winston (streaky QB) for a year.  Knock on wood but that 1st in 2023 should be a fairly decent one.  

4 minutes ago, kiwieagle said:

Between two first's next year and an extra second in 2024, that's a lot of ammunition to move around in the 2023 draft

 

Just now, BayAreaLennie said:

Yeah, ultimately whether the raw return on this trade is good or not will be determined by where the Saints finish ... could be tremendous (Saints in bottom 10), could be awful (Saints make a playoff run).  But from a strategic standpoint, their biggest need in 2023 will be if Hurts is a disaster in the 2022 season.  In that case, they will have their own (presumably) very high draft pick plus whatever the Saints pick is, which should at least be high enough to enable them to put a package together to get very high in the draft for a QB.  If the Saints pick ends up being very high, so much the better.

On the other hand, if Hurts is actually good in 2022, they are free-rolling on adding some talent around him with whatever the Saints pick provides.  Regardless, it is strategically smart for them to at least give themselves a chance to have a very high pick in the 2023 draft.

This. I know the Hurts hate crowd want to get rid of him at any cost, but this is a weak QB draft and the Eagles genuinely want to see if Hurts can improve.

On the other hand the Eagles are not sold on Hurts and this is the perfect insurance policy. 

The Eagles could potentially get a first by trading down, but chances are the teams who would be willing to do that are likely KC/Green Bay (to get a receiver) or Buffalo (for a DB). Either way the first next year would be 25-32.

Saints first is likely to be top 20 and could be top 10.

Great move
 

 

40 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Don't bother, he can't seem to grasp the simple concept that a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd is much better than a 1st.

It really depends on where the 1sts are though. We traded a mid 1st. If we get a mid 1st back (eventually), it's a clear win. If we get an early 1st back, it's a massive win. But if it's a low 1st, well, then I might say it's a wash.

I enjoyed rooting against the Dolphins and Colts this year. It provided some extra interest every week. I think I can enjoy rooting against the Saints next year as well. Should be fun.

Incidentally, that 3rd we're getting is basically a 4th.

4 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

I understand the issue with not wanting to draft 3 first rounders from a cap space issue.

But, this team needs around 5 first rounders this year to fix all the broken parts.

I’ve been saying all along, this team is more than a single offseason away from building a competitive roster.  Makes even more sense to have made this deal.  

2 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

I understand the issue with not wanting to draft 3 first rounders from a cap space issue.

But, this team needs around 5 first rounders this year to fix all the broken parts.

The NFL Draft Chart tells me that the Eagles could still package our 2 first rounders plus something to get up to #3 or #4 overall in the first round.

Do I think they'll do that? Not likely. My bet is on 2 BPA in the first. Defense please.

Howie may not be done dealing. He could trade up. He could trade back.

There's still deals to be done and plenty of time before the draft.

24 days until the draft.

I think the Eagles are very likely to move up in the 1st round, but not up to 3 or 4.  It is no secret who the top 12 or so guys are in this draft, and at some point as they see those guys come off there will be a player among them still on the board that they covet and they will burn a 4th or maybe a 3rd round pick to go get him.  With their 2nd 1st rounder, they will either wait it out and pick the BPA, landing a player they really like, or if they have a group rated similarly at that spot, they will explore trading down 5-10 spots and try to pick up a high draft pick.

2 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

I think the Eagles are very likely to move up in the 1st round, but not up to 3 or 4.  It is no secret who the top 12 or so guys are in this draft, and at some point as they see those guys come off there will be a player among them still on the board that they covet and they will burn a 4th or maybe a 3rd round pick to go get him.  With their 2nd 1st rounder, they will either wait it out and pick the BPA, landing a player they really like, or if they have a group rated similarly at that spot, they will explore trading down 5-10 spots and try to pick up a high draft pick.

Agreed, they'll probably use one of those 3rds to move up a few spots to grab a guy (DE most likely ... maybe Sauce or Stingley) they want, similar to what they did last year to get Smith.  

32 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

The Eagles took a chance that the Colts and Dolphins wouldn’t be good and both were double digit win teams. All in all I don’t think it matters much, because two firsts in the 2023 draft probably still let’s them do whatever they want so if they need to get too the upper end of the draft they should be able to get it done. 

Neither The dolphins nor the Colts were double digit win teams last year…

15 minutes ago, time2rock said:

I don’t know how anyone could be upset about this trade.  To simplify (seems necessary for some of you):

From the NFL draft value chart:

the value of the picks NO acquired = 1887.2

the value of the 2022 picks we acquired = 997

the difference = 890.2 which is the equivalent of the 18th overall pick in the current draft.

Would you trade the 18th pick for a 2023 1st and a 2024 2nd?  I sure as hell would.  I’ll be surprised if NO is a 0.500 team or better:  new HC replacing one that was a brilliant offensive kind and a new QB (likely) that is probably going to sit behind Winston (streaky QB) for a year.  Knock on wood but that 1st in 2023 should be a fairly decent one.  

I am absolutely on board with them trading a 1st round pick this year to pick up a 1st rounder next year plus some extra draft capital -- the "let's see if Hurts is good in 2022 and if not, we'll do what we have to to land one of the highly thought of QBs in the 2023 draft" strategy is extremely sound and a trade like this is key to enabling it.  What I don't know is if there was another organization that might have ponied up more, especially on draft night.

But, I actually trust Howie to know and understand the market for these types of things -- some things he does not do as well, but understanding the trade market is his forte.  He must have surveyed the field and felt that the potential of a better deal being out there later on or on draft night was outweighed by ensuring we locked in picking up a potentially high 2023 1st round pick.  Possibly the Saints had another offer they were getting ready to take if Howie did not commit.

So yes, I am on board with this move, even though I think there was a potential to get even more.

I like the trade but still want Howie fired. This does not negate all the crap he's done

Great trade!  Who'd they get?

1 minute ago, Mike030270 said:

I like the trade but still want Howie fired. This does not negate all the crap he's done

Not happening.  Howie is Lurie's alter ego and Lurie is not firing himself.

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

 

Citing rookie contracts as a salary cap reason is troubling.

 

1 hour ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I think what you are missing is the faulty premise in the argument that a pick next year is of lower value. Ultimately it clearly is not.  It just takes longer to get there.

That being said, I think the Eagles would lose on this trade if NO has a really good year and the pick is 27th or so. Anywhere from 12 to 25 and it is a fair deal. If it’s top ten, then it is a huge win. 

Through Time Value of Money, they are always considered lower value.

 

1 hour ago, T-1000 said:

Nobody should dislike this trade, even if you don't like the rationale behind it. The fact of the matter is it was a MASSIVE overpay by the Saints. On that alone this is a very good trade for the Eagles. Beyond that, they were never keeping three first round picks for cap purposes, and it gives them all kinds of options down the road if they want to go in a different direction than Hurts. 

Value wise though, forget 18 and 19. They turned 16 into a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 7th. Way too good to pass up.

16 now for 1st and 2nd next year and 3rd in 2024. If they are 8-8, that would be 16 and 48, and what is considered a 5th now and a 4th in 2023 TVM-wise.

The more I think about it, the more I'm okay with it. But its not nearly as big of a deal as the paid sowers of discord make it out to be.

 

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I like the trade but still want Howie fired. This does not negate all the crap he's done

Just wait until he blows the picks Reagor style....

 

Just now, Procus said:

Not happening.  Howie is Lurie's alter ego and Lurie is not firing himself.

I know. I can still dream can't I!

1 minute ago, Greenakers2 said:

Great trade!  Who'd they get?

Picks for the replacement for Hurts next year.

6 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I like the trade but still want Howie fired. This does not negate all the crap he's done

A lot of fans were disappointed he was just handed a 3 year extension (even though it was expected).  You can’t undo the past but you can learn from your mistakes and do a better job in areas you stunk at previously.  Time to see if Howie can do that … don’t have a choice now do we.  

Just now, time2rock said:

A lot of fans were disappointed he was just handed a 3 year extension (even though it was expected).  You can’t undo the past but you can learn from your mistakes and do a better job in areas you stunk at previously.  Time to see if Howie can do that … don’t have a choice now do we.  

How many chances does it get? Infinite?

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

 

Rapoport is a smart man.