Standards. High standards. This is very effective.

I spent three years in English schools, 9-11. I had more advanced classes when I was 11, than I ever had in a US school, through age 18. They had very high standards. 50% was passing. 75% meant you were a genius. 100% they beat you for cheating, since only another professor was capable of answering at least one of the questions.

They made you think. Made you sweat, mentally. Our schools are not designed to educate. You can blame both parties for putting up worthless standards, underpaid and overworked teachers ("real jobs don't have summers off" - I painted a lot of houses in the summer with a teacher who had to work the summer.) and administrators who would rather push a stupid child ahead to the next grade, than deal with the fact that they don't cut the mental mustard.

There is a very strong anti-science stance in much of the US.

 

Fing sad.

I don’t think your education was as helpful for you as you think. 

Our education system is broken. We’ve raised a multiple choice generation incapable of critical thought. The upcoming generations will be even worse as they rely on the internet as a short cut to thinking. (This is why we have Q anon retards who think JFK Jr is still alive and we are ruled by lizard people).
 

I use a book called "Education Outrage” by Schank in a grad course I teach. He talks a lot about the need to tear the entire system down to fix it. I don’t agree with all of his ideas, but he’s on the right track. The education system is designed to serve itself, not the students. 

1 hour ago, Toastrel said:

 

Standards. High standards. This is very effective.

careful...

5 hours ago, Gannan said:

Our education system is broken. We’ve raised a multiple choice generation incapable of critical thought. The upcoming generations will be even worse as they rely on the internet as a short cut to thinking. (This is why we have Q anon retards who think JFK Jr is still alive and we are ruled by lizard people).
 

I use a book called "Education Outrage” by Schank in a grad course I teach. He talks a lot about the need to tear the entire system down to fix it. I don’t agree with all of his ideas, but he’s on the right track. The education system is designed to serve itself, not the students. 

Apparently AI is getting to the point that it can write college level papers. This is going to get a whole lot worse in the coming years. Pretty interesting thread nonetheless:

 

Thread title sounds like a Magic card.

 

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Apparently AI is getting to the point that it can write college level papers. This is going to get a whole lot worse in the coming years. Pretty interesting thread nonetheless:

 

I haven't even thought about AI and it's role. I do find services like chegg disturbing. Not only do they write papers for students, but they provide test answers, quiz answers, and any assignment suggested by virtually any textbook published... for a fee of course. Higher education has become more of a pay for degree program. 

13 hours ago, Gannan said:

Our education system is broken.

Yup.  Standards are too low to become an educator.  Pretty much any jacka** who wants to hang out with children all day and have summers off like a child can become a teacher.  And when they get there, the f'n union (WTF DO TEACHERS NEED A UNION?) makes it so they get their yearly raises regardless of performance, so there is no incentive to be excel.

 

Kill the unions and make it so actual intelligent, hard working folks instead of the flunkies who make up 80% (totally accurate number) workforce are the ones teaching our kids.

This topic is only hitting the surface...... 

Some districts spend more time working the kids over with the achievement tests so the districts get more govt money than they do actually giving a true education.

Some only do the minimum due to the educators not being very good.

Some struggle with the no child left behind act.

Some struggle with minorities due to language differences.

Right now most cant even find subpar teachers to work.

We can go on forever with this one.

2 hours ago, paco said:

Yup.  Standards are too low to become an educator.  Pretty much any jacka** who wants to hang out with children all day and have summers off like a child can become a teacher.  And when they get there, the f'n union (WTF DO TEACHERS NEED A UNION?) makes it so they get their yearly raises regardless of performance, so there is no incentive to be excel.

 

Kill the unions and make it so actual intelligent, hard working folks instead of the flunkies who make up 80% (totally accurate number) workforce are the ones teaching our kids.

This is all true. Teaching can be a hard job if you do it properly, but few do. As you mention, they are not incentivized to do so. When I was a teacher, while I wasn't forced to join the union, paying dues was mandatory. So if you are going to have the dues automatically deducted from your paycheck, might as well join. The only time it came in handy was when the district administrators (who are even more lazy and incompetent than the teachers) weren't doing their jobs.

abolish public education 

Another thing I ask my grad students is "Should everyone go to college?" Surprisingly almost all of them say yes. I'm not so sure. It's not a very good return on investment unless you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer or in high finance. Some people are just not cut out for it. Where I live, to the district's credit, there are good trade schools for those who don't want to go the college prep rout. We are very much in the middle of these types of decisions with our oldest. She has a processing disorder and just doesn't like school. We have to stay on her constantly to make sure she is keeping up with her assignments, homework, and is at least somewhat prepared for quizzes and tests. It's a constant struggle. She would rather go to tech school than a college prep high school. I'm inclined to agree (my wife hates this idea). I don't think there should be a stigma attached to this path for kids, but there seems to be. 

9 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Another thing I ask my grad students is "Should everyone go to college?" Surprisingly almost all of them say yes. I'm not so sure. It's not a very good return on investment unless you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer or in high finance. Some people are just not cut out for it. Where I live, to the district's credit, there are good trade schools for those who don't want to go the college prep rout. We are very much in the middle of these types of decisions with our oldest. She has a processing disorder and just doesn't like school. We have to stay on her constantly to make sure she is keeping up with her assignments, homework, and is at least somewhat prepared for quizzes and tests. It's a constant struggle. She would rather go to tech school than a college prep high school. I'm inclined to agree (my wife hates this idea). I don't think there should be a stigma attached to this path for kids, but there seems to be. 

 

My daughter's district has become very toxic to her.  The only thing keeping her going is her love and talent that teaches kids to read.  She is interventional teacher, reading specialist for K-2.  She has a master's degree in education plus other credits that I can't recall how many, 17 I think.  So sorry, if that has moved her up on the pay scale, she worked for it and is deserving of it. She still works thru the summer.  Intakes, schedules, you name it.  It never stops.

12 minutes ago, DiPros said:

My daughter's district has become very toxic to her.  The only thing keeping her going is her love and talent that teaches kids to read.  She is interventional teacher, reading specialist for K-2.  She has a master's degree in education plus other credits that I can't recall how many, 17 I think.  So sorry, if that has moved her up on the pay scale, she worked for it and is deserving of it. She still works thru the summer.  Intakes, schedules, you name it.  It never stops.

Yeah the salary schedule pays more for Masters +15. Ironically if I had stayed with it, I'd probably be at the top of the scale since I have a doctorate. Teacher's should get paid more if they have an advanced degree. They did away with it in North Carolina and the result is one of the worst pubic education systems in the country. However, outside of the first 3 years teachers aren't regularly evaluated. I was observed once in my first 3 years of teaching (it should have been 12 times). The administration just couldn't be bothered to do it. They told me to write my own evaluations of my teaching performance. Total joke. No accountability.  

On 10/26/2022 at 7:46 AM, paco said:

Yup.  Standards are too low to become an educator.  Pretty much any jacka** who wants to hang out with children all day and have summers off like a child can become a teacher.  And when they get there, the f'n union (WTF DO TEACHERS NEED A UNION?) makes it so they get their yearly raises regardless of performance, so there is no incentive to be excel.

 

Kill the unions and make it so actual intelligent, hard working folks instead of the flunkies who make up 80% (totally accurate number) workforce are the ones teaching our kids.

Intelligent, hard-working folks do not want to teach. There is no money in it, and they have to deal with entitled parents and crappy kids.

While I agree in theory about killing the union, doing so would probably make the education system even worse, especially in low-income areas.

55 minutes ago, Gannan said:

Another thing I ask my grad students is "Should everyone go to college?" Surprisingly almost all of them say yes. I'm not so sure. It's not a very good return on investment unless you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer or in high finance. Some people are just not cut out for it. Where I live, to the district's credit, there are good trade schools for those who don't want to go the college prep rout. 

 Not every child is emotionally ready to make that big decision, and therefore they struggle in college.  And at the end of it they graduate , still not sure of what they want out of life, and are saddled with ridiculous amounts of debt. There are plenty of trades out there where someone could could go....... Then come out with certifications that will allow them to make ridiculous amounts of money.  I know some electricians that are making money that betters some 4 and 6 year college degree folks. In the end it all depends on drive of the individual.

 

Oh, standardize testing isn't the be all and end all?

 

Wow.