January 28Jan 28 2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Shifts from undecided to lab leak. You're not seriously this retarded right? Please tell me this is just shtick and you haven't made it this far in life without being able to read. You can keep calling me names or you can just admit that you've once again made a fool of yourself. "CIA assesses with low confidence that a research-related origin of the COVID-19 pandemic is more likely than a natural origin based on the available body of reporting,” a CIA spokesperson said in a statement. "CIA continues to assess that both research-related and natural origin scenarios of the COVID-19 pandemic remain plausible.”
January 28Jan 28 2 minutes ago, The Norseman said: You can keep calling me names or you can just admit that you've once again made a fool of yourself. "CIA assesses with low confidence that a research-related origin of the COVID-19 pandemic is more likely than a natural origin based on the available body of reporting,” a CIA spokesperson said in a statement. "CIA continues to assess that both research-related and natural origin scenarios of the COVID-19 pandemic remain plausible.” Wow, this has to be one of the absolute dumbest of hills for you to die on. You'd think you'd be embarrassed enough by now to give up but you apparently enjoy being clowned on. For years, the CIA has said it was unclear whether the Covid pandemic emerged from human exposure to an infected animal or from an event at a research lab in China. U.S. intelligence agencies and other government departments have been divided over the origins of the virus. The FBI and the Energy Department have said it was likely the virus was the result of a lab leak, while other agencies assessed that natural human exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario. The CIA had been agnostic until now.
January 28Jan 28 49 minutes ago, TEW said: Sure we don’t know with 100% certainty. Gun to your head, what do you believe? I believe that I would get shot. I'm ok with not making a determination if I don't have the evidence I need to make that determination. It's a low value topic for me, thus I'm not going to devote anything more than cursory thought to it. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It happened. The only thing I would make a determination on is the fact that I do not believe that if it was a lab leak, that it was done purposefully. Sometimes ish happens, and we need to be able to accept it. Occam's Razor is a thing.
January 28Jan 28 6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Wow, this has to be one of the absolute dumbest of hills for you to die on. You'd think you'd be embarrassed enough by now to give up but you apparently enjoy being clowned on. For years, the CIA has said it was unclear whether the Covid pandemic emerged from human exposure to an infected animal or from an event at a research lab in China. U.S. intelligence agencies and other government departments have been divided over the origins of the virus. The FBI and the Energy Department have said it was likely the virus was the result of a lab leak, while other agencies assessed that natural human exposure to an infected animal was the most likely scenario. The CIA had been agnostic until now. So typical, you pick some technical obscurity like whether the CIA had formally assessed the natural theory prior to assessing the lab leak in order to obfuscate from the greater point. The point is that NOW they are assessing lab leak. Go try to twist an argument that isn't so obvious somewhere else.
January 28Jan 28 1 minute ago, The Norseman said: So typical, you pick some technical obscurity like whether the CIA had formally assessed the natural theory prior to assessing the lab leak in order to obfuscate from the greater point. The point is that NOW they are assessing lab leak. Go try to twist an argument that isn't so obvious somewhere else. Well, it took us a while but I'm glad we were finally able to teach you how to read past a headline. Good job, man, now go apply those new skills and you'll start actually learning things faster than you've ever thought possible.
January 28Jan 28 10 minutes ago, Bill said: I believe that I would get shot. I'm ok with not making a determination if I don't have the evidence I need to make that determination. It's a low value topic for me, thus I'm not going to devote anything more than cursory thought to it. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It happened. The only thing I would make a determination on is the fact that I do not believe that if it was a lab leak, that it was done purposefully. Sometimes ish happens, and we need to be able to accept it. Occam's Razor is a thing. Nobody is making a determination. I agree that we will likely never get there in this case but we absolutely should try. If China continues to block our efforts then they should be sanctioned. Millions of people died in this pandemic and if it WAS a mistaken leak from a lab then we can learn from it and employ safety protocols. If it was a wet market transmission then we should more closely regulate wet markets worldwide, not just in China. Not allowing for space for the conversation is what gets everyone so upset and it gives credence to conspiracy theories.
January 28Jan 28 5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Well, it took us a while but I'm glad we were finally able to teach you how to read past a headline. Good job, man, now go apply those new skills and you'll start actually learning things faster than you've ever thought possible. Yes, thank you for wasting my time, yours and everyone's who reads this with a pointless argument that achieved nothing.
January 28Jan 28 3 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Nobody is making a determination. I agree that we will likely never get there in this case but we absolutely should try. If China continues to block our efforts then they should be sanctioned. Millions of people died in this pandemic and if it WAS a mistaken leak from a lab then we can learn from it and employ safety protocols. If it was a wet market transmission then we should more closely regulate wet markets worldwide, not just in China. Not allowing for space for the conversation is what gets everyone so upset and it gives credence to conspiracy theories. Honestly I doubt any of those things happen even if an origin was definitively determined (which I very much doubt will happen). The reasons for lack of safety/accountability with China is self evident. With the wet markets, China already tried to shut them down to some degree awhile back and they just went underground with even sketchier health practices. It's such an engrained cultural thing in that part of the world it's nearly impossible to effectively regulate.
January 28Jan 28 22 minutes ago, Bill said: I believe that I would get shot. I'm ok with not making a determination if I don't have the evidence I need to make that determination. It's a low value topic for me, thus I'm not going to devote anything more than cursory thought to it. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. It happened. The only thing I would make a determination on is the fact that I do not believe that if it was a lab leak, that it was done purposefully. Sometimes ish happens, and we need to be able to accept it. Occam's Razor is a thing. Thats a lot of words to avoid the question. I’ll ask again, what do you think happened?
January 28Jan 28 17 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Honestly I doubt any of those things happen even if an origin was definitively determined (which I very much doubt will happen). The reasons for lack of safety/accountability with China is self evident. With the wet markets, China already tried to shut them down to some degree awhile back and they just went underground with even sketchier health practices. It's such an engrained cultural thing in that part of the world it's nearly impossible to effectively regulate. Nobody regulates better than China, and those disobeying the government learn the hard way that it is unwise. If China really wanted wet markets shut down there wouldn't be any. Kinda makes you wonder if they really believe that the virus originated in one, doesn't it? On a side note, I've been to China on many occasions both rural and urban areas. I've been to many of these wet markets across Asia (not Wuhan, but others) and I have never once seen any animals sold there that are out of the ordinary. It's always poultry, fish, pigs, vegetables etc. I'm sure you could find rural markets that sell some more obscure stuff, but I find it very difficult to believe that bats, exotic dogs and / or pangolins were being sold in a market as urban as Wuhan. It would make much more sense that the "origin" of the outbreak was just a public location where and infected person spread a novel pathogen to other humans. A market would be a textbook place for that to happen. How patient zero got infected, where and by what remains up for grabs....but I really find it hard to believe that it originated from animal to human contact in an urban market.
January 28Jan 28 1 hour ago, The Norseman said: The point here is that multiple federal agencies have now shifted their assessment of the origin of the virus from natural to lab leak. Why you all feel the need to so desperately debate this is beyond me. It's printed everywhere in black and white. What the new administration did was look at the glass and say, let's go with "half full" thus changing the summary from "half empty". There is no clear evidence. Also, scientists and experts are not in any agreement on this topic.
January 28Jan 28 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: What the new administration did was look at the glass and say, let's go with "half full" thus changing the summary from "half empty". There is no clear evidence. Also, scientists and experts are not in any agreement on this topic. Exhausting. Nowhere, never have I said that there is clear evidence.
January 28Jan 28 1 minute ago, The Norseman said: Exhausting. Nowhere, never have I said that there is clear evidence. No you didn't BUT you make it sound like there is something new. There isn't. It is just a rebrand of the same cup of water that is still 50% empty and 50% full.
January 28Jan 28 10 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Nobody regulates better than China, and those disobeying the government learn the hard way that it is unwise. If China really wanted wet markets shut down there wouldn't be any. Kinda makes you wonder if they really believe that the virus originated in one, doesn't it? On a side note, I've been to China on many occasions both rural and urban areas. I've been to many of these wet markets across Asia (not Wuhan, but others) and I have never once seen any animals sold there that are out of the ordinary. It's always poultry, fish, pigs, vegetables etc. I'm sure you could find rural markets that sell some more obscure stuff, but I find it very difficult to believe that bats, exotic dogs and / or pangolins were being sold in a market as urban as Wuhan. It would make much more sense that the "origin" of the outbreak was just a public location where and infected person spread a novel pathogen to other humans. A market would be a textbook place for that to happen. How patient zero got infected, where and by what remains up for grabs....but I really find it hard to believe that it originated from animal to human contact in an urban market. Again they already tried to do this in the past and failed. So clearly that's not true.
January 28Jan 28 3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: No you didn't BUT you make it sound like there is something new. There isn't. It is just a rebrand of the same cup of water that is still 50% empty and 50% full. Dude, I posted an article about a change to the CIA's position on the origin. Why does this threaten you all so much?
January 28Jan 28 3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: Again they already tried to do this in the past and failed. So clearly that's not true. Don't make the mistake of believing that what China says aligns with what China does.
January 28Jan 28 24 minutes ago, TEW said: Thats a lot of words to avoid the question. I’ll ask again, what do you think happened? I think either someone came into contact with a bat that was infected with a corona virus, or there was a lab leak of a corona virus sample taken from a bat. That’s what I think. There’s no evidence to make a determination one way or another.
January 28Jan 28 Just now, The Norseman said: Dude, I posted an article about a change to the CIA's position on the origin. Why does this threaten you all so much? Threaten? What makes you use that word? The article itself is clear that there is no new significant evidence of any sort. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
January 28Jan 28 1 minute ago, Bill said: I think either someone came into contact with a bat that was infected with a corona virus, or there was a lab leak of a corona virus sample taken from a bat. That’s what I think. There’s no evidence to make a determination one way or another. This is such hilarious cowardice, and we all know why.
January 28Jan 28 so what is the conspiracy anyway? china did it on purpose to....umm....kill a bunch of people? china did it on purpose under the direction of the "deep state" or possibly fauci? what's the flat earther's theory on the rona?
January 28Jan 28 1 minute ago, TEW said: This is such hilarious cowardice, and we all know why. Unlike in phrenology, not everything can be taken at face value.
January 28Jan 28 4 minutes ago, The Norseman said: Don't make the mistake of believing that what China says aligns with what China does. I'm not. I'm going by their actions by banning the holding of live animals in wet markets after the SARS outbreak. They tried and it didn't work.
January 28Jan 28 Once again Bill, a fairly staunch conservative, is being labeled a liberal coward for simple not being retarded
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