Seems like void years is the cheat code

16 hours ago, jsdarkstar said:

I think Howie saved some cap space with renegotiating Slay's Contract. How much remains to be seen. 

Heard on a podcast that number is $13mil

On 3/12/2023 at 10:34 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The fact the cap went down a couple of years ago only reinforces my view that it's about owner profit rather than competitiveness.

Parity schmarity, if a team manages to scout and draft a series of pro bowl / all pro talents, it's nonsense that they have to lose a couple of them every 4 years to try and keep teams run by a-holes who could fall into a barrel of tiddies and come out sucking their own thumb notionally competitive.

If you can't raise your competitive level through getting to pick the best college players before anyone else, forcing other teams to weaken their team isn't going to help either.

 

Players get 48% of revenues under the CBA negotiated between the union and the owners.  Revenues went down in 2020 because of the restrictions on attendance at games.  The cap absolutely promotes parity but doesn't guaranty it because you have poorly run front offices and well run front offices.

On 3/16/2023 at 11:02 AM, Mike030270 said:

Seems like void years is the cheat code

It's a way of kicking the can down the road and pushing cap hits into later years.  As revenues increase, the cap hits are more marginalized.  This works if there are no hiccups that decrease revenues like the coronavirus. 

On 3/16/2023 at 10:02 AM, Mike030270 said:

Seems like void years is the cheat code

AFAIK there are zero rules on void years so they can sign Hurts to a 3 year contract with 6 void years?

Dak for example has been restructured constantly so he now has a 26.8 hit this year, a 59.4 hit next year, and 2 voidable years at 25.4 and 11

So after this year Dak is an eventual 96 million cap hit for 1 year of play.

That can be 60 next year and then 36 the next year or yet another restructure.

Even if he signs a new deal all that cap debt carries forward.

 

Its why the Saints roster has been wafer thin the last 3 years. They killed themselves with 8+ years of doing this.

Brees had to retire after June 1st (or the start of the league year) because the Saints could not field a team if he did not split his dead cap.

Clarification: The Saints have not been using void years for 10+ years since they are fairly new (3 or 4 years now?)

The Saints have been converting base salary to bonus and pushing it forward on a massive scale for 8+ years.

4 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

AFAIK there are zero rules on void years so they can sign Hurts to a 3 year contract with 6 void years?

Dak for example has been restructured constantly so he now has a 26.8 hit this year, a 59.4 hit next year, and 2 voidable years at 25.4 and 11

So after this year Dak is an eventual 96 million cap hit for 1 year of play.

That can be 60 next year and then 36 the next year or yet another restructure.

Even if he signs a new deal all that cap debt carries forward.

 

Its why the Saints roster has been wafer thin the last 3 years. They killed themselves with 8+ years of doing this.

Brees had to retire after June 1st because the Saints could not field a team if he did not split his dead cap.

Lane has 3 years of void years before his restructure and Kelce has 4 now

Howie loves his void years and fans just eat it up and call him a wizard 

2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Lane has 3 years of void years before his restructure and Kelce has 4 now

Howie loves his void years and fans just eat it up and call him a wizard 

I think Lane's last 2 void years are 0 balance, but that can and will change when his 17m base gets converted to bonus.

Void years are great until the player retires then it hits hard. Tampa is eating all of Brady's 35.1 this year to get out from under it.

The Eagles split Brandon Brooks 15 million into 6 last year and 9 this year.

Weirdest salary story is Bobby Bonilla.

The Mets owed him 5.9 million but deferred it from 2011-2035

They actually took the money they saved by not paying him then and gave it to Bernie Madoff.

His 5.9m at 8% yearly interest has turned into 1.19 million every year or just under 30 million.

On 3/9/2023 at 11:24 PM, Captain F said:

With QB contracts reaching into the 50m a year range and continuing to climb,  it seems like the yearly cap raise is being outpaced by these QB numbers. At some point there has to be a ceiling on QB annual pay, no? I mean, even if the Cap goes to 250m in the coming years and the next great QB sets the market at 60...70m a year, that will leave scraps for the rest of the roster. How is this sustainable?

You want someone to explain it to you well here it is. It's about as real as taxes for the rich in this country, right up there with santa claus and the tooth fairy. 

On 3/16/2023 at 10:02 AM, Mike030270 said:

Seems like void years is the cheat code

One of many.  "Cap space" in a given year really has no bearing because there are so many ways to manipulate the system. 

40 minutes ago, Hawkeye said:

One of many.  "Cap space" in a given year really has no bearing because there are so many ways to manipulate the system. 

Yep, and then....have a team of people, well versed in it, working on it daily doing what if's and the only concern a fan should have, is are we strong enough to compete for and win a Super Bowl.  The rest.....isn't my concern.  

We have a top QB, top WR tandem, top TE, best Offensive Line, Strong DL, Strong Secondary, LB is a huge question mark but what if they get Wagner to pair with Dean, tell me you wouldn't be excited about the possibility of that LB core?  

Right now, especially in this weak NFC, the Eagles have as good as any to represent the NFC again in the Super Bowl and that is all I can ask for.....

On 3/15/2023 at 10:35 AM, flyerdog said:

Bradberrry signed a 3 yr $40M contract..with a guarantee of $20M

so why is that extra language in there? 

why not just say 3yr for $20M 

I realize all contracts have incentives...which in most cases might be unrealistic....but does the guaranteed amount affect the cap more or less , or not at all, as compared to the contract total value? 

Because agents want the maximum possible value advertised. It is good for their business. There are a lot of things that go into contracts. There are salaries, guarantees, incentives, void years, etc. Typically the maximum possible value advertised in a contract by agents is for if the player plays out the entire contract and hits every single incentive. And both of those are unlikely, although QB's will typically play out their contracts if they are very good or elite.

Which is why the guaranteed money at signing is important and also when other guarantees kick in and incentives. That ultimately determines the true length and value of a contract. Geno Smith's current contract is realistically a one year 25mil contract. Derek Carr's last season was realistically a one year contract extension, hence how they were able to cut him this off-season and not face a big penalty.

We won't know the true details of some of these contracts for a bit. It will take some time for them to come to light after folks dig into them. Keep and eye on OTC and Spotrac.

3 for 40 with 20 guaranteed is never really 3 for 20.

The 20 is usually spread out between signing bonus, roster bonus, and early year salaries / reporting bonus.

It might wind up being a 2 year 22 or 2 year 25 deal but it will never be close to 3 and 20.

The salary cap is basic money manipulation. It is a nice way for owners can skirt around not paying money for players. With all of these fake rules and loopholes they should just remove the thing. It creates unnecessary restrictions to players salaries in the most violent team sport. NFL owners are making money hand over fist while players careers are still on average three years. There is a false illusion that player pay is going to explode if there is no cap. Truth is NFL contracts have ebbed flow. Depending on what position is hot will depend on who gets paid. No I don’t think any player takes a big contract to just sit on a bench either especially a young player because that hurts that players next chance to receive a hug contract. The NFL should end the cap, franchise tags, and any of these player restrictions that they have placed on fair negotiating. 

On 3/19/2023 at 8:34 PM, EazyEaglez said:

The salary cap is basic money manipulation. It is a nice way for owners can skirt around not paying money for players. With all of these fake rules and loopholes they should just remove the thing. It creates unnecessary restrictions to players salaries in the most violent team sport. NFL owners are making money hand over fist while players careers are still on average three years. There is a false illusion that player pay is going to explode if there is no cap. Truth is NFL contracts have ebbed flow. Depending on what position is hot will depend on who gets paid. No I don’t think any player takes a big contract to just sit on a bench either especially a young player because that hurts that players next chance to receive a hug contract. The NFL should end the cap, franchise tags, and any of these player restrictions that they have placed on fair negotiating. 

then the biggest spenders get all the names....years ago, if you remember, Andre Rison signed a FA contract with the Browns...pre salary cap. Art Modell was saying how he had to go to 5 banks for loans just to sign him, while someone like Jerruh Jones could just cut a check....

5 hours ago, flyerdog said:

then the biggest spenders get all the names....years ago, if you remember, Andre Rison signed a FA contract with the Browns...pre salary cap. Art Modell was saying how he had to go to 5 banks for loans just to sign him, while someone like Jerruh Jones could just cut a check....

These guy exaggerate their brokenness. Heck Lurie brought the Eagles for 250mil and now the organization is worth in the billions. I highly doubt elite guys want to be paid to sit on a bench. You would never have a situation like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on a team that isn’t an all star situation. The NFL is pay per performance and players won’t get paid sitting on the bench. Could a team potentially buy an all star at every position? Possibly but I feel like that is a proposition more in theory than an actual possibility.

On a side note can we stop referencing the Cowboys for everything imaginable? Do people realize that we are nearly 30 years since their last Super Bowl? And what have they won about 5 playoff games top since? The star = overrated.

21 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

These guy exaggerate their brokenness. Heck Lurie brought the Eagles for 250mil and now the organization is worth in the billions. I highly doubt elite guys want to be paid to sit on a bench. You would never have a situation like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady on a team that isn’t an all star situation. The NFL is pay per performance and players won’t get paid sitting on the bench. Could a team potentially buy an all star at every position? Possibly but I feel like that is a proposition more in theory than an actual possibility.

On a side note can we stop referencing the Cowboys for everything imaginable? Do people realize that we are nearly 30 years since their last Super Bowl? And what have they won about 5 playoff games top since? The star = overrated.

well seeing how J Jones just bought a $250M yacht, the point was just that....

Every time I see the title of this thread, I think:

 

On 3/23/2023 at 6:42 PM, flyerdog said:

well seeing how J Jones just bought a $250M yacht, the point was just that....

That definitely doesn’t men he’s getting all the players. Really who have the Cowboys brought in that has been a wow factor free agent? 

Here’s where I’m at with the cap… It really doesn’t matter and as long as the GM knows what he’s doing a team will manage it just fine.

First, the players make about 49.5% of what the owners make if the owners only spend up to the yearly cap without any bonuses or voidable years.

Second, if anything the owners are far exceeding the salary cap every year by paying out contracts with huge bonuses and voidable years.

These cheats/hijinks/manipulations are all in the favor of increased pay to players.

Every time a team converts salary to bonus they are paying players early (interest free loan) and making more room to pay even more players more money.

Also the cap excludes the bottom of the roster guys at the minimum. (top 53 only)

Then the NFL calculates play time for underpaid players and gives then a pay adjustment  (Epps got a bunch this year)

 

Salary cap = moustache twirling villain owners is grade Z BS.

Incentive bonuses also work to the players favor in that they are only counted at a percentage based on likely to be earned or unlikely and that's yet another way to get more money to players than the basic cap allows.

 

I'd guess owners are keeping about 48% and paying out 52% per year to players.  The pandemic season stopped the growth and it got ugly for a bit since the cap did not go up but that crush was felt for both owners and players.

The Eagles just gave Lane Johnson a 33 mil extension and turned that into 10mil in cap space. People have been warning about the "hidden cap hell” now since Howie has come back to being GM and still nothing. People have been claiming to be cap experts, saying the Eagles can’t sign in anyone, and yet they probably have had their most active off-season in sometime. Here’s a simple way to explain the cap. Howie knows it better than anyone on TATE and that’s all that truly matters. That’s why these guys are typing gloom and doom while he’s making moves on moves.