August 17, 20232 yr I have been to Lahaina. Such a beautiful place. 1st reported Maui fire may have been caused by damaged power lines, independent report claims https://www.yahoo.com/gma/1st-reported-maui-fire-may-015056066.html Maui's first reported wildfire last week may have been caused by damaged power lines, according to newly released research conducted by a power monitoring company. On August 7, more than an hour before Maui authorities said the first fire erupted according to authorities, a security camera at the Maui Bird Conservation Center in the east Maui region of Upcountry, captured a bright flash in the woods. "It's windy, and then there's a flash, and I think that's when a tree is falling on a power line," Jennifer Pribble, a senior research coordinator at the Conservation Center, said in the video that was later released. "The power goes out, our generator kicks on, the camera comes back online, and then the forest is on fire." Bob Marshall, the CEO of Whisker Labs, a company that sells in-home sensors to monitor for precursors to electric fires, told ABC News this bright flash in the footage is known as an "arc flash," which happens when a power line comes in contact with something like a tree or vegetation.
August 17, 20232 yr If gas pipelines can be built across a country, one would think that underground conduits for power line across an island would be doable. Trenching may be more expensive that poles and overhead lines but in the end, the extra expense seems worth it.
August 17, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, PoconoDon said: If gas pipelines can be built across a country, one would think that underground conduits for power line across an island would be doable. Trenching may be more expensive that poles and overhead lines but in the end, the extra expense seems worth it. Never been to Hawaii, I picture it almost completely rocky, underground just may not be feasible. I dunno.
August 17, 20232 yr 31 minutes ago, PoconoDon said: If gas pipelines can be built across a country, one would think that underground conduits for power line across an island would be doable. Trenching may be more expensive that poles and overhead lines but in the end, the extra expense seems worth it. The cost estimate to do this is in the trillions nationwide, IIRC. The cost is about 4x. https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2019/10/11/cost-to-bury-california-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/#:~:text=It costs about %243 million,Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines. Quote It costs about $3 million per mile to convert underground electric distribution lines from overhead, while the cost to build a mile of new overhead line is less than a third of that, at approximately $800,000 per mile, according to a section on PG&E's website called Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines.
August 17, 20232 yr The other issue is the much higher cost of repair if something goes wrong. It would be damn near impossible to know where the issue is, so you end up digging up the whole damn thing.
August 17, 20232 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The cost estimate to do this is in the trillions nationwide, IIRC. The cost is about 4x. https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2019/10/11/cost-to-bury-california-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/#:~:text=It costs about %243 million,Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines. I was thinking limiting it to the Hawaiian islands to start.
August 17, 20232 yr Just now, vikas83 said: The other issue is the much higher cost of repair if something goes wrong. It would be damn near impossible to know where the issue is, so you end up digging up the whole damn thing. I imagine there are alternatives to digging it all up. Then again, just because I can imagine it, doesn't make it so. In any event, it'd be very expensive.
August 17, 20232 yr 3 minutes ago, PoconoDon said: I imagine there are alternatives to digging it all up. Then again, just because I can imagine it, doesn't make it so. In any event, it'd be very expensive. Sadly, there really isn't. This was a huge topic during the PG&E bankruptcy after the CA fires. And even CA had to admit that burying all power lines was insanely expensive and infeasible.
August 17, 20232 yr 20 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The other issue is the much higher cost of repair if something goes wrong. It would be damn near impossible to know where the issue is, so you end up digging up the whole damn thing. There are ways to determine where the failure lies. Our medium voltage for wind and solar facilities are underground throughout the project area until they interconnect at the substation and step up. These lines can be miles long.
August 17, 20232 yr If burying them is the issue then they need to design the system to automatically cut power when the line is open.
August 17, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, vikas83 said: The other issue is the much higher cost of repair if something goes wrong. It would be damn near impossible to know where the issue is, so you end up digging up the whole damn thing. what could go wrong, other than say, hot lava melting the lines. Given that Maui is a volcanic Island. I went to the top of the volcano when I was there. Maui is Paradise.
August 17, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Boogyman said: Never been to Hawaii, I picture it almost completely rocky, underground just may not be feasible. I dunno. It's tropical, with rain forrest, mountains, Volcano and valleys where they grow pineapple and sugar cane. The beaches are stunning. The water is so clear and blue. Maui is paradise.
August 17, 20232 yr The geological history of Hawaii is amazing. There is a really good episode of How the Earth was Made about it.
August 17, 20232 yr 18 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: If burying them is the issue then they need to design the system to automatically cut power when the line is open. When they did cut the power, it also cut the power to the water pumps to the fire hydrants. Their problems are all throughout their system. They'd been warned for over a decade and did nothing about it.
August 17, 20232 yr 17 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: It's tropical, with rain forrest, mountains, Volcano and valleys where they grow pineapple and sugar cane. The beaches are stunning. The water is so clear and blue. Maui is paradise. Ahhh. I was picturing it being rocky under the soil. More so than the mainland anyway.
August 17, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, barho said: There are ways to determine where the failure lies. Our medium voltage for wind and solar facilities are underground throughout the project area until they interconnect at the substation and step up. These lines can be miles long. Yeaw I know there are a few ways of doing this with low-voltage signaling (one which is RF-based), so I'd imagine something similar should be possible, in theory at least, with high-voltage lines.
August 17, 20232 yr Cables usually just don’t go bad when they are protected in some sort of conduit. I believe overall maintenance costs would be much lower. The power lines are buried in my neighborhood. Never lost power from a downed power line. Never lost power more than a few minutes.
August 17, 20232 yr 6 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: Cables usually just don’t go bad when they are protected in some sort of conduit. I believe overall maintenance costs would be much lower. The power lines are buried in my neighborhood. Never lost power from a downed power line. Never lost power more than a few minutes. Probably conditional on geology, areas prone to shifting soil might be at more risk for faults. But yeah we have underground lines too and we've might've had 1 or 2 outages in the last 10 years that lasted longer than an hour.
August 17, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, vikas83 said: The other issue is the much higher cost of repair if something goes wrong. It would be damn near impossible to know where the issue is, so you end up digging up the whole damn thing. "First, DTE crews ensure nearby homes and business are supplied with a secondary power source. Then, we deenergize the damaged part of the grid in order to safely locate the exact point that needs to be repaired or replaced. Our team often implements a method called the thumper technique. Cable test crews use a generator to send a high voltage signal to the underground system, causing the cable fault point to make a distinctive "thump” sound." https://empoweringmichigan.com/how-dte-crews-locate-underground-cable-faults-to-improve-reliability/
August 18, 20232 yr 8 hours ago, Boogyman said: Never been to Hawaii, I picture it almost completely rocky, underground just may not be feasible. I dunno. Run the power lines through lava tubes
August 18, 20232 yr 19 hours ago, vikas83 said: The cost estimate to do this is in the trillions nationwide, IIRC. The cost is about 4x. https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/environment/2019/10/11/cost-to-bury-california-fire-prone-power-lines-why-not/3937653002/#:~:text=It costs about %243 million,Facts About Undergrounding Power Lines. When I was in St. Croix a few years ago, there were a bunch of crews there putting up new power lines that were made of something other than wood and looked like they could withstand some pretty strong winds. Not sure what Hawaii had but that would be a good start.
August 18, 20232 yr Looks like they did at least some underground https://www.viwapa.vi/news-information/press-releases/press-release-details/2021/04/15/wapa-hosts-groundbreaking-ceremony-for-three-electrical-underground-projects-on-st.-croix Quote "Placing electrical lines underground allows the U.S. Virgin Islands to build back stronger and smarter and mitigate potential devastation to its power grid when severe weather strikes. The Golden Grove, Container Port and Midland underground electrical lines projects will strengthen St. Croix’s power grid and give the island an energy lifeline for rapid stabilization after destructive storms. FEMA continues its mission to support the U.S. Virgin Islands as the Territory uses hazard mitigation measures through an innovative approach to transform its power grid toward a legacy of resilience. These projects are another significant step towards a resilient recovery for the people of the U.S. Virgin Islands,” said U.S. Virgin Islands Acting Recovery Director John Covell. Other components of the transformation plan include the acquisition of new generators at power plants on St. Thomas and St. Croix, the addition of solar and wind renewables to the grid, the development of electrical microgrids with battery storage, and the installation of over 8,000 composite poles territory wide. The newer composite poles can better withstand major hurricanes compared to the traditional wooden poles now in use.
August 18, 20232 yr 11 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Run the power lines through lava tubes Mars habitat if they can find one. LOL.
August 18, 20232 yr 11 hours ago, Dave Moss said: Run the power lines through lava tubes For that we would need a huge navy hospital ship, but Biden hates America so he won't send it.
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