July 11, 20205 yr 5 hours ago, Mike31mt said: Comparing churches to pimps and drug dealers??? Epic stupid take. Catholicism operates charities, hospitals, schools, etc ...but yeah thats the same as a drug dealer. I lose faith in humanity when I hear dumb ish like this Pablo Escobar was charitable, too.
July 11, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, Ace Nova said: The Catholic Church is the largest private provider of health care in the United States of America.[42] (All of it non-profit) During the 1990s, the church provided about one in six hospital beds in America, at around 566 hospitals, many established by nuns.[41] The church has carried a disproportionate number of poor and uninsured patients at its facilities and the American bishops first called for universal health care in America in 1919. The church has been an active campaigner in that cause ever since.[41] In the abortion debate in America, the church has sought to retain the right not to perform abortions in its health care facilities.[41] In 2012, the church operated 12.6% of hospitals in the US, accounting for 15.6% of all admissions, and around 14.5% of hospital expenses (c. 98.6 billion dollars). Compared to the public system, the church provided greater financial assistance or free care to poor patients, and was a leading provider of various low-profit health services such as breast cancer screenings, nutrition programs, trauma, and care of the elderly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_health_care#:~:text=The Catholic Church is the,the United States of America.&text=In 2012%2C the church operated,98.6 billion dollars). First, much appreciation was expressed for the Trump administration’s inclusion of faith-based institutions in the CARES Act’s Paycheck Protection Program (PPP). This has allowed many Catholic schools to keep its teachers, bus-drivers, and other staff on the payroll (for now). This was a huge victory for people of all faiths — to be treated as equal partners in America’s public square, as the Supreme Court affirmed is proper in Trinity Lutheran v. Comer. When it came to the PPP, the Trump administration made clear that we’re all in this together. While the PPP helped schools survive in the short-term, many will soon again be on the brink of closure, and the cardinals on the phone call were sounding the alarm bells. The most vulnerable Catholic schools are those in urban areas that serve the most vulnerable children. Public schools in these neighborhoods will chug along with government support. Catholic schools, however, rely on the charitable support of the community and the ability of parents to be able to scrape together the tuition. They’re at risk. So are their students. Why should the president — or other non-Catholics for that matter — care about the fate of Catholic schools? The answer to this question clearly caught President Trump’s attention on the call: Catholic schools save the taxpayers $24 billion a year. Yes, $24 billion. The math is simple. The average per-pupil cost of a public-school education is about $12,000 annually. (The average per-pupil cost at Catholic schools is $5,847). Two million children educated in Catholic schools, two million children the public does not pay to educate. That’s a whopping $24 billion savings every year for taxpayers. https://thehill.com/opinion/education/496409-catholic-schools-are-at-risk-and-so-are-the-students#:~:text=Two million children educated in,than their public-school counterparts. Catholic Charities is a network of charities with headquarters in Alexandria, Virginia. In 2005 Forbes magazine ranked it as the fifth largest charity in the United States in terms of total revenue.[3] The organization serves millions of people a year, regardless of their religious, social, or economic backgrounds. In 2019, 12 million persons were served at more than 2600 locations.[4] Next to the federal government, Catholic Charities is the largest US social-safety-net provider. Catholic Charities USA is a member of Caritas Internationalis, an international federation of Catholic social service organizations.[5] Catholic Charities USA is the national office of 165 local Catholic Charities agencies nationwide. Founded in 1910 as the National Conference of Catholic Charities, the organization changed its name in 1986 to Catholic Charities USA (CCUSA).[6] CCUSA's president and CEO, Sister Donna Markham OP, Ph.D., is the first female president to lead CCUSA in the organization's 105-year history. She has held this position since 2015.[7] Their motto is "Working to reduce poverty in America". Their mission statement is "The mission of Catholic Charities is to provide service to people in need, to advocate for justice in social structures, and to call the entire church and other people of good will to do the same."[8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charities_USA In 1990, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops commissioned CCUSA to respond to disasters in the United States. Relief and recovery services are provided at the local level by Catholic Charities agencies across the country. These agencies provide critical services including emergency food, shelter, direct financial assistance, counseling, and support. CCUSA's Disaster Operations coordinates the Catholic Church's response to disasters in the United States and grants relief funds to local Catholic Charities agencies to support their relief efforts. Catholic Charities has responded to disasters across the country, including the attacks on September 11,[11] Hurricanes Katrina and Rita,[12] the Gulf Coast oil spill,[13] and the impact of Superstorm Sandy.[14] My argument here has nothing to do with the work they do.
July 11, 20205 yr 17 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: My argument here has nothing to do with the work they do. Answer this question. If the Catholic Church was to shutdown tomorrow and close all of its hospitals, healthcare facilities, schools; and all of its charities, what would happen to the U.S.? You can’t preach separation of Church and State and then say that the Church has no right to benefits from the government, when your Country is dependent on the benefits the Catholic Church provides it. It’s like you said, you can’t have it both ways.
July 11, 20205 yr 50 minutes ago, Ace Nova said: Answer this question. If the Catholic Church was to shutdown tomorrow and close all of its hospitals, healthcare facilities, schools; and all of its charities, what would happen to the U.S.? You can’t preach separation of Church and State and then say that the Church has no right to benefits from the government, when your Country is dependent on the benefits the Catholic Church provides it. It’s like you said, you can’t have it both ways. The federal government may not favor one religion over another. Tax money going to churches violates this.
July 11, 20205 yr 4 hours ago, Bill said: The federal government may not favor one religion over another. Tax money going to churches violates this. Multiple religious organizations received benefits from the CARES act, not just the Catholic Church. The irony with the media targeting the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church would be by far the most deserving of government help since it helps the Federal Government more than any other religious group or charity on the planet: No one else comes close: It’s literally in the hundreds of billions per year.
July 11, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Ace Nova said: Answer this question. If the Catholic Church was to shutdown tomorrow and close all of its hospitals, healthcare facilities, schools; and all of its charities, what would happen to the U.S.? You can’t preach separation of Church and State and then say that the Church has no right to benefits from the government, when your Country is dependent on the benefits the Catholic Church provides it. It’s like you said, you can’t have it both ways. Stop the alarmism, the catholic church is not going anywhere, they have survived much worse than this. Yes I can preach separation of church and state, I’m not the one that wants it both ways. I don’t want the government stealing money from the church any or than I want them giving my money to them. All the work they do is a great example on how well an organization can run when the government doesn’t meddle in their business. I want the rest of the economy to enjoy the benefits of the free market that the he church does.
July 11, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Ace Nova said: The irony with the media targeting the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church would be by far the most deserving of government help since it helps the Federal Government more than any other religious group or charity on the planet: No one else comes close: It’s literally in the hundreds of billions per year. The church doesn’t help the government. The Constitution helps the church by not allowing the government to steal from them. If the church was taxed like other businesses, they wouldn’t be as efficient as they are.
July 11, 20205 yr 8 hours ago, Green Dog said: He does have a point. Paying out huge settlements for clergy sex-abuse scandals can get quite expensive over time. That donation bowl only covers so much... The sex abuse scandal is an abomination. The people that committed those horrendous acts ruined lives and caused tremendous pain and suffering to the victims, their families, to the communities they serve and to the entire worldwide congregation of the Roman Catholic Church. They betrayed everything the Catholic Church and Christianity believes in and stands for. They hurt and damaged the very same lives they promised to save through Christ and the Church. If there are mortal sins that the Church has no authority to forgive, I would imagine that the acts committed by them, would be among them. The money spent on settlements would have been added to the billions of dollars the Catholic Church spends every year on healthcare, schools and various other charities helping the poor, sick and the less fortunate. The people that committed those acts not only hurt the victims; they also hurt the people that would have received help with the money that was spent settling their lawsuits. It's an exponentially tragic situation.
July 11, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Ace Nova said: Multiple religious organizations received benefits from the CARES act, not just the Catholic Church. The irony with the media targeting the Catholic Church is that the Catholic Church would be by far the most deserving of government help since it helps the Federal Government more than any other religious group or charity on the planet: No one else comes close: It’s literally in the hundreds of billions per year. When did I say it was ok for other religions to receive government money?
July 11, 20205 yr 22 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: Stop the alarmism, the catholic church is not going anywhere, they have survived much worse than this. Except that there’s less than half the Catholic schools that there were 40 years ago, and hundreds more have closed due to COVID-19. If the reports are right, and they did spend the feds money to pay off pedophile lawsuits, it’s even more infuriating because that money should have gone toward keeping some of those schools open.
July 11, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said: Stop the alarmism, the catholic church is not going anywhere, they have survived much worse than this. Yes I can preach separation of church and state, I’m not the one that wants it both ways. I don’t want the government stealing money from the church any or than I want them giving my money to them. All the work they do is a great example on how well an organization can run when the government doesn’t meddle in their business. I want the rest of the economy to enjoy the benefits of the free market that the he church does. I believe in separation of Church and State. The money from the CARES act (more than likely) was used to help pay the non-lay people within the Church. (In case you weren't aware, many of the lay people within the Church have vows of poverty or are volunteers.) The money from the CARES act would likely go to teachers, bus drivers, maintenance people, etc. Those very same people would claim unemployment benefits from the CARES act if they were laid off. The Catholic Church likely saved the government money by not laying those people off. 1 hour ago, Tnt4philly said: The church doesn’t help the government. The Constitution helps the church by not allowing the government to steal from them. If the church was taxed like other businesses, they wouldn’t be as efficient as they are. You are absolutely wrong when you state that the Catholic Church does not help the Federal Government. It's not even debatable. There is no intention to help the government by the Catholic Church but it helps the government by default through the social safety nets it provides and the vast amount of healthcare and education it provides the nation, etc...among dozens of other charities. If it weren't for the safety nets, charities, education, and healthcare the Catholic Church provides the people of the U.S., the U.S. government would bear the burden of those additional costs and they would easily amount to billions of dollars per year. The money from the CARES act is a drop in the bucket when comparing it to what the Catholic Church saves the government on an annual basis.
July 12, 20205 yr 11 hours ago, Mike31mt said: What does that have to do with anything? The govt literally made it illegal for their schools and churches to be opened. How is a priest supposed to feed himself? How is the church supposed to pay the water bill? Magic?? These places run on donations, right? Did the government dictate that they couldn't take donations? If it was truly important to the parishioners wouldn't they donate some other way in that time of need? Mail? PayPal? Venmo? Kickstarter?
July 12, 20205 yr 45 minutes ago, Bill said: When did I say it was ok for other religions to receive government money? You said, "The federal government may not favor one religion over another" The federal government did not "favor one religion over another" since the CARES act money went to various religious organizations other than the Catholic Church.
July 12, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, The_Omega said: Except that there’s less than half the Catholic schools that there were 40 years ago, and hundreds more have closed due to COVID-19. If the reports are right, and they did spend the feds money to pay off pedophile lawsuits, it’s even more infuriating because that money should have gone toward keeping some of those schools open. Considering the fact that the vast majority (99%) of the lawsuits were already settled prior to March of 2020, it's highly doubtful that money from the CARES Act went towards settling those lawsuits. And since organizations need to show that the money from the CARES act is being used towards payroll costs, etc, it's beyond obvious that the author of the article "dreamed up" the theory that the Catholic Church used it to settle lawsuits. The Catholic Church is an easy target... the author (most likely) wrote a story to get clicks and to create a stir... since it's "politically correct" to bash the Catholic Church with unsubstantiated claims. The CARES act money likely went to non-lay people that would have claimed unemployment benefits from the CARES act had they been laid off. Teachers, social workers, bus drivers, maintenance people, etc etc.
July 12, 20205 yr 37 minutes ago, Ace Nova said: I believe in separation of Church and State. The money from the CARES act (more than likely) was used to help pay the non-lay people within the Church. (In case you weren't aware, many of the lay people within the Church have vows of poverty or are volunteers.) The money from the CARES act would likely go to teachers, bus drivers, maintenance people, etc. Those very same people would claim unemployment benefits from the CARES act if they were laid off. The Catholic Church likely saved the government money by not laying those people off. You are absolutely wrong when you state that the Catholic Church does not help the Federal Government. It's not even debatable. There is no intention to help the government by the Catholic Church but it helps the government by default through the social safety nets it provides and the vast amount of healthcare and education it provides the nation, etc...among dozens of other charities. If it weren't for the safety nets, charities, education, and healthcare the Catholic Church provides the people of the U.S., the U.S. government would bear the burden of those additional costs and they would easily amount to billions of dollars per year. The money from the CARES act is a drop in the bucket when comparing it to what the Catholic Church saves the government on an annual basis. You apparently only believe in a one way separation of church and state. I realize that some of the work the church does, and I mean all churches in general, not just the Catholic Church, provide valuable services to the public. And that those service reduce the burden on the government, but you are still missing the point that the church would not be nearly as successful as it is if the government taxed and regulated them like everyone else. There are many people who want to tax the church and stuff like this will fuel that fire.
July 12, 20205 yr 54 minutes ago, Ace Nova said: You said, "The federal government may not favor one religion over another" The federal government did not "favor one religion over another" since the CARES act money went to various religious organizations other than the Catholic Church. Did they go to all religious organizations?
July 12, 20205 yr 12 minutes ago, Tnt4philly said: You apparently only believe in a one way separation of church and state. I realize that some of the work the church does, and I mean all churches in general, not just the Catholic Church, provide valuable services to the public. And that those service reduce the burden on the government, but you are still missing the point that the church would not be nearly as successful as it is if the government taxed and regulated them like everyone else. There are many people who want to tax the church and stuff like this will fuel that fire. If you were to remove "Religious tax exempt status" from the the Catholic Church , 100% of its revenue would still be tax deductible, since 88% of the Catholic Church's revenue goes directly to charity. The other 12% is also tax deductible since it's being used for administrative costs for a non-profit organization. The Catholic Church does not need a "religious/church organization" tax exempt status. Other than additional accounting costs for the Catholic Church, nothing would change if you removed their tax exempt status. The only way the government could collect tax from the Catholic Church is if they removed tax exemptions from all non-profit organizations in the U.S. That would include charities like: The Salvation Army St Jude's Research Hospital (They treat children with cancer with zero cost going to the child's family) The American Red Cross Habitat For Humanity The YMCA Boys & Girls Club American Cancer Society American Heart Association Planned Parenthood UNICEF Save the Children Doctors Without Borders Rotary Club Shriners Hospitals for Children Wounded Warrior Project American Civil Liberties Union Toys for Tots Special Olympics World Wildlife Fund Disabled American Veterans SPCA Easter Seals National Multiple Sclerosis Society Smithsonian Institute Humane Society Mercy Corps Ronald McDonald House Charities And THOUSANDS of other charities or non-profit organizations in the U.S.
July 12, 20205 yr 57 minutes ago, Bill said: Did they go to all religious organizations? If the religious organizations can show that the money is being used for payroll costs and they applied for it...yes, they would most likely get it as well. The CARES act does not exclude "religious affiliation".
July 12, 20205 yr 4 hours ago, No_Skill said: These places run on donations, right? Did the government dictate that they couldn't take donations? If it was truly important to the parishioners wouldn't they donate some other way in that time of need? Mail? PayPal? Venmo? Kickstarter? That's a very good question and it shows that you are a "thinker". Well done. The Catholic Church does indeed rely on donations from its congregation. Guess who the congregation is? It's 70+ MILLION Americans in the U.S. It's your neighbor. It's your friend. It's your cousin. It's your associates at work. What happens when you get laid off or furloughed because of Covid? Your income drops to zero. You apply for unemployment. Eventually (hopefully) you are approved for unemployment benefits....although they are less than 30% of what you make. So you need to pay the mortgage, insurance, electric bill, cable bill, car payments.....and FOOD. With 1/3 of what you make. What's the first thing that gets cut? Normally I would give $10 in the basket (at church) but I need that money to put food on the table for my children. So go ahead, keep blasting Catholics for no reason. (We're used to it, btw)
July 12, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, Ace Nova said: If the religious organizations can show that the money is being used for payroll costs and they applied for it...yes, they would most likely get it as well. The CARES act does not exclude "religious affiliation". Why should my tax money go to paying people whose job it is to further a religion.
July 12, 20205 yr Author 31 minutes ago, Bill said: Why should my tax money go to paying people whose job it is to further a religion. My stoned monkey theory organization better get some money.
July 12, 20205 yr 16 minutes ago, Bill said: Why should my tax money go to paying people whose job it is to further a religion. It shouldn't. That's why we have "separation of church and state". And I assure you, when it comes to the Catholic Church, the benefits the Catholic Church gives YOUR government outweigh the benefits it receives. By BILLIONS of dollars. The real question is, why do my donations to my church, go to paying and subsidizing people whose job it is to further advance their government? Why is their government dependent on my church?
July 12, 20205 yr Author 15 minutes ago, Ace Nova said: It shouldn't. That's why we have "separation of church and state". And I assure you, when it comes to the Catholic Church, the benefits the Catholic Church gives YOUR government outweigh the benefits it receives. By BILLIONS of dollars. The real question is, why do my donations to my church, go to paying and subsidizing people whose job it is to further advance their government? Why is their government dependent on my church? I don't think you understand, we don't care that you say who benefits who. I don't think my tax money should go to a religious organization especially one with a checkered history finally revealing itself.
July 12, 20205 yr 10 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: I don't think you understand, we don't care that you say who benefits who. I don't think my tax money should go to a religious organization especially one with a checkered history finally revealing itself. In that case cut funding to schools because kids are more likely to get abused there than at a catholic church.
July 12, 20205 yr 43 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said: I don't think you understand, we don't care that you say who benefits who. I don't think my tax money should go to a religious organization especially one with a checkered history finally revealing itself. Your tax dollars don't go to the Church. Not a single penny. The Catholic Church SAVES you from paying additional tax dollars What you fail to understand is that the Catholic Church is responsible for BILLIONS of dollars of the US annual budget. Any money the Catholic Church receives from the federal government is only a very small portion of what the federal government earned/saved because of the Catholic Church. It's like this: You own a business. You run your business as a non profit. Your business saves the federal government 200 billion dollars per year because it runs private schools (The government would pay $12,000 per year for every student not enrolled in the Catholic School system if they were in the public school system). The Catholic Church runs a 96 Billion dollar, non-profit healthcare network in the U.S. The same network would cost 200-300 billion (or more) if it were a public network...that alone saves over a hundred billion per year to U.S. taxpayers. There are a multitude of various other charities that add up to the billions. They also save the government from needing to pay for additional safety nets. The federal government gives out loans to help with payroll costs during a pandemic. Your business takes a 1.4 billion dollar loan out so that you don't need to lay off employees. The employees you would have laid off, would have collected unemployment from the government, had you laid them off. (Government needs to pay them) They did not need to collect unemployment because you got the loan from the government. You just saved the government additional money and you still operate as a non profit. And your non profit still saves the government 200 billion dollars per year.
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