The secondary and Dennard Wilson

[Cochis_Calhoun]

Last year we had Dennard Wilson as DB coach / pass game coordinator (horses ass pretend job title) and we had the best pass defense in the league, Bradberry makes all pro, Slay makes Pro Bowl.  Off season we passed him over for DC and let him walk, then promote his assistant DK McDonald to DB coach and hey presto we have the worst secondary in the NFL, the covering is bad, the tackling is hopeless and Bradberry looks straight ass out there.

There's a lot of talk about the coordinators being this and that but the one coaching position that unquestionably downgraded and needs to be looked at urgently is DB coach, because the drop off has been near vertical and it's affecting the rest of the defense.

To illustrate Dennard Wilson's effectiveness, Baltimore didn't draft any early round DB's, their free agency had no big splashes at corner but they've reduced their completion percentage allowed by 7 points, they're on pace to knock 800 yards off passing yards allowed and their yards allowed per completion has come down 2 yards.

Meanwhile the Eagles are on pace to give up an extre 900 yards passing.

[EazyEaglez]

Seems kind of strange to put this up today. The Eagles held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 168 total passing yards. The Chiefs had only 17 points and were shutout in the second half. Neither Slay nor Bradbury did anything in this one that was far too egregious to rip them for it. If anything you could rip Roby, but he’s the one who had the big forced fumble in the red zone too. The secondary has struggled a lot this year no doubt about it, but they have also had a lot of moving parts and a bunch of undrafted rookies playing as well. I highly doubt the Eagles make any moves on this. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

6 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Seems kind of strange to put this up today. The Eagles held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 168 total passing yards. The Chiefs had only 17 points and were shutout in the second half. Neither Slay nor Bradbury did anything in this one that was far too egregious to rip them for it. If anything you could rip Roby, but he’s the one who had the big forced fumble in the red zone too. The secondary has struggled a lot this year no doubt about it, but they have also had a lot of moving parts and a bunch of undrafted rookies playing as well. I highly doubt the Eagles make any moves on this. 

The drop off in Bradberry's play is clear and obvious and it has been all season, slot was a revolving door a lot of last season and it held up a lot better than this. the pass defense has gone from 1st to 19th in terms of yards allowed and last year we allowed 22 passing TD's all season, we're already at 19 for this. If he tightens it up great, but all the signs point to a secondary that's worse coached than last year.

[EmeraldArcher7154]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Seems kind of strange to put this up today. The Eagles held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 168 total passing yards. The Chiefs had only 17 points and were shutout in the second half. Neither Slay nor Bradbury did anything in this one that was far too egregious to rip them for it. If anything you could rip Roby, but he’s the one who had the big forced fumble in the red zone too. The secondary has struggled a lot this year no doubt about it, but they have also had a lot of moving parts and a bunch of undrafted rookies playing as well. I highly doubt the Eagles make any moves on this. 

chiefs had a lot of crucial drops. 

[brkmsn]

47 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The drop off in Bradberry's play is clear and obvious and it has been all season, slot was a revolving door a lot of last season and it held up a lot better than this. the pass defense has gone from 1st to 19th in terms of yards allowed and last year we allowed 22 passing TD's all season, we're already at 19 for this. If he tightens it up great, but all the signs point to a secondary that's worse coached than last year.

Bradberry was in a contract year last season. One can just as easily build an argument around motivation as it can coaching. I don't think CJGJ was a huge loss at safety, but despite what he believes he is, much of the NFL views him as a slot CB on their team. Last year when Maddox was lost, people were whining about Josiah Scott, especially when he was covering Lamb and also on that 3rd and 30 play. But when CJGJ returned, the Eagles were able to move him to slot and it was an instant fix. When you really dive into last year's secondary play, the first half of the year (When Maddox played) was still better than the latter half (without Maddox). This year we didn't even get our token 9 games from him. 

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said:

chiefs had a lot of crucial drops. 

More than made up for those by all the holding required to give Mahomes time to pass. Even that huge drop near the end was a beneficiary of a blatant hold that gave Mahomes time to make that throw. 

[EmeraldArcher7154]

5 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

More than made up for those by all the holding required to give Mahomes time to pass. Even that huge drop near the end was a beneficiary of a blatant hold that gave Mahomes time to make that throw. 

that was still a wide open pass. hold or not. they wont call every hold. holds happen literally every play. that 4th and 25 play was off the receiver's hands. we got lucky and hopefully that carries to getting them the #1 seed.

[brkmsn]

19 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said:

that was still a wide open pass. hold or not. they wont call every hold. holds happen literally every play. that 4th and 25 play was off the receiver's hands. we got lucky and hopefully that carries to getting them the #1 seed.

You can call it luck if you want to. It was raining the entire game. Most people recognize that rain makes the ball slippery and is not an ideal passing condition. Before the pass was thrown, the Chiefs were lucky Mahomes didn't get sacked (obviously because of the hold). Dwell on whatever you like, though. The Eagles obviously missed Goedert out there --- especially in a game with unfavorable passing weather. That wasn't a lucky break for the Chiefs or anything ...

[nipples]

53 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said:

that was still a wide open pass. hold or not. they wont call every hold. holds happen literally every play. that 4th and 25 play was off the receiver's hands. we got lucky and hopefully that carries to getting them the #1 seed.

And he had time to get open that far down the field because of the hold. 

[EmeraldArcher7154]

1 minute ago, nipples said:

And he had time to get open that far down the field because of the hold. 

roby was burned from the word go lol. 

 

[EmeraldArcher7154]

36 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

You can call it luck if you want to. It was raining the entire game. Most people recognize that rain makes the ball slippery and is not an ideal passing condition. Before the pass was thrown, the Chiefs were lucky Mahomes didn't get sacked (obviously because of the hold). Dwell on whatever you like, though. The Eagles obviously missed Goedert out there --- especially in a game with unfavorable passing weather. That wasn't a lucky break for the Chiefs or anything ...

they've been lucky in every game except 1. i would like to see this team operate efficiently for one whole game atleast once. it's week 11.

[Kz!]

10 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said:

they've been lucky in every game except 1. i would like to see this team operate efficiently for one whole game atleast once. it's week 11.

Sure we'd all like to see them dominate a game from start to finish, but we just went into Arrowhead and got a win against the defending Super Bowl champions. That counts for something.

As for the secondary, yeah, they've definitely been worse this year. I wouldn't necessarily pinpoint the coaching change as the problem, more likely it's a combination of a bunch of different things. Bradberry and Slay are a year older. They're both on the wrong side of 30 at a position that's tough to maintain a high level of play at that age. CJGJ was a really good, versatile defender that could play in the slot or at safety. Losing him was a blow. Obviously not having Maddox and having other injuries in the slot hasn't helped. Our pass rush also hasn't been nearly as effective this year. Just a whole bevvy of issues that have added up. But would "better coaching" help Slay and Bradberry stick to their receivers better? Do guys nearing a decade of NFL experience really need to be coached up? I kind of doubt it. That's why I kind of lean toward personnel issues/age/lack of pass rush being the main issues.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

41 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Sure we'd all like to see them dominate a game from start to finish, but we just went into Arrowhead and got a win against the defending Super Bowl champions. That counts for something.

As for the secondary, yeah, they've definitely been worse this year. I wouldn't necessarily pinpoint the coaching change as the problem, more likely it's a combination of a bunch of different things. Bradberry and Slay are a year older. They're both on the wrong side of 30 at a position that's tough to maintain a high level of play at that age. CJGJ was a really good, versatile defender that could play in the slot or at safety. Losing him was a blow. Obviously not having Maddox and having other injuries in the slot hasn't helped. Our pass rush also hasn't been nearly as effective this year. Just a whole bevvy of issues that have added up. But would "better coaching" help Slay and Bradberry stick to their receivers better? Do guys nearing a decade of NFL experience really need to be coached up? I kind of doubt it. That's why I kind of lean toward personnel issues/age/lack of pass rush being the main issues.

The area's where it might help is the hand off point between corner and safety, there have been instances all season where the Corner thinks the receiver is into the Safety's zone but the safety doesn't arrive so guys are running wild and free back there.

Again I say Bradberry has played like ass this year, and it's not just the natural decline of age, he can't maintain coverage worth a damn, I don't recall him being near getting a pick, , he's on pace for the worst season of his career, he's not the same player. Slay is pretty much what he was at the end of last year, he's now a guy who is better than anyone else we have but more and more that's because we don't have anybody that good.

At the end of the day, if coaching doesn't matter for vets why not just let the vets go through the film sessions and walk through then just spend the rest of the week on fitness work?

[Diehardfan]

3 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Seems kind of strange to put this up today. The Eagles held Mahomes and the Chiefs to 168 total passing yards. The Chiefs had only 17 points and were shutout in the second half. Neither Slay nor Bradbury did anything in this one that was far too egregious to rip them for it. If anything you could rip Roby, but he’s the one who had the big forced fumble in the red zone too. The secondary has struggled a lot this year no doubt about it, but they have also had a lot of moving parts and a bunch of undrafted rookies playing as well. I highly doubt the Eagles make any moves on this. 

The Chiefs had so many wide open drops I wouldn't say they were good so much as lucky but that's fine with me

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, Diehardfan said:

The Chiefs had so many wide open drops I wouldn't say they were good so much as lucky but that's fine with me

You could say the same thing about a lot of games this year, but this stuff happens to all teams. The Chiefs are one of the league leaders in dropped passes, but still have a winning record. Not to mention the Eagles much maligned secondary also got some big pass breakups in this one. Also, also the Chiefs offensive line held our defensive line nearly every play and on multiple occasions tackled Jalen Carter to the ground with no calls. Plenty of if ands, and maybes to go around for both teams. 

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

The drop off in Bradberry's play is clear and obvious and it has been all season, slot was a revolving door a lot of last season and it held up a lot better than this. the pass defense has gone from 1st to 19th in terms of yards allowed and last year we allowed 22 passing TD's all season, we're already at 19 for this. If he tightens it up great, but all the signs point to a secondary that's worse coached than last year.

These are players the DC has been given. It’s not his fault Bradbury is slipping. How much can a DC teach Slay, Byard, Roby, and Bradbury at this point in their careers? Bigger issue is Howie flooding the roster with so many young developmental level kids in the secondary. That’s a huge task for any seconds coach. It has been a revolving door due to injuries, and many of these young kids having up and down games.

[EazyEaglez]

4 hours ago, EmeraldArcher7154 said:

chiefs had a lot of crucial drops. 

Dropping passes is what the Chiefs do. Yet they’re still 7-3 and probably will win the AFC. 

[Vileborg]

The only sure hands they've had has been Kelce. Take him away and you stop the Chefz, which is what happened.

[EmeraldArcher7154]

11 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Dropping passes is what the Chiefs do. Yet they’re still 7-3 and probably will win the AFC. 

They dont win the afc this year. Its Baltimore's conference to lose at this point. The game just felt like KC lost it more than they won it. 

[AmericanEagle77]

17 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Last year we had Dennard Wilson as DB coach / pass game coordinator (horses ass pretend job title) and we had the best pass defense in the league, Bradberry makes all pro, Slay makes Pro Bowl.  Off season we passed him over for DC and let him walk, then promote his assistant DK McDonald to DB coach and hey presto we have the worst secondary in the NFL, the covering is bad, the tackling is hopeless and Bradberry looks straight ass out there.

There's a lot of talk about the coordinators being this and that but the one coaching position that unquestionably downgraded and needs to be looked at urgently is DB coach, because the drop off has been near vertical and it's affecting the rest of the defense.

To illustrate Dennard Wilson's effectiveness, Baltimore didn't draft any early round DB's, their free agency had no big splashes at corner but they've reduced their completion percentage allowed by 7 points, they're on pace to knock 800 yards off passing yards allowed and their yards allowed per completion has come down 2 yards.

Meanwhile the Eagles are on pace to give up an extre 900 yards passing.

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just want to re-point out the whole third most sacks in NFL history thing.

[Cochis_Calhoun]

4 hours ago, AmericanEagle77 said:

While I'm not saying I disagree with you, I just want to re-point out the whole third most sacks in NFL history thing.

Yeah the pass rush had more time to get home because the coverage was solid, this year there's guaranteed to be a receiver free 8-12 yards over the middle within 1.5seconds of the snap.

[Swoop]

I don't entirely disagree, but the secondary was also relatively healthy last season and didn't have to continue shuffling out different players.

I know we lost GJ and Maddox (shocker) for a while, but it wasn't as bad as this season. Some continuity back there would be nice and hopefully we get that moving forward.

[EagleVA]

On 11/21/2023 at 6:28 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Last year we had Dennard Wilson as DB coach / pass game coordinator (horses ass pretend job title) and we had the best pass defense in the league, Bradberry makes all pro, Slay makes Pro Bowl.  Off season we passed him over for DC and let him walk, then promote his assistant DK McDonald to DB coach and hey presto we have the worst secondary in the NFL, the covering is bad, the tackling is hopeless and Bradberry looks straight ass out there.

Yeah, I posted earlier questioning why haven't the Eagles found a role for Ringo, I suggested it must be the coaches, after reading this post I'm sure it is, Ringo has more raw ability than any other DB on the team, they need to figure out how to use the guy.

[GreenMachine]

Frankly for the dozen or more young corners they have brought in via draft, free agency or trade they just don't ever develop them. Rasul was probably one of the better ones they drafted (and i think a 4th round pick at that) but either the system here, coaching or both just couldn't bring the talent out of him or pretty much anyone else. Not saying he is an all pro but he has made a lot of big plays over the past few years since the birds cut him. There just isn't consitancy of play in the secondary week to week.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

Frankly for the dozen or more young corners they have brought in via draft, free agency or trade they just don't ever develop them. Rasul was probably one of the better ones they drafted (and i think a 4th round pick at that) but either the system here, coaching or both just couldn't bring the talent out of him or pretty much anyone else. Not saying he is an all pro but he has made a lot of big plays over the past few years since the birds cut him. There just isn't consitancy of play in the secondary week to week.

 

I think with Rasul he just wasn’t a fit for the scheme. And to be honest he still wouldn’t be. I think he’s a physical CB who needs to be at the line and really pressing and our schemes are all pretty soft.