If we draft a LB, they have to be bigger than Trotter. We already have a tiny LB who is injured all the time, because he can't play with the big boys. We don't need another one. Get one with SIZE, if you are going to get one.

On 2/29/2024 at 6:08 AM, HazletonEagle said:

Payton Wilson is the best.  He is proven in coverage. Junior Colson is said by some to be the best coverage LB.

Cooper is untested in coverage.  A complete protection.  You just hope his athleticism helps him be successful there in the NFL.

I find it difficult to listen to all these people parrot that he is the best LB in the draft when he has such a huge question mark in his game.  We literally have no idea how he can be in coverage. The risk makes me want a couple different LBs over him. 

lol parrot? Clearly you did not watch Cooper play if you think he is untested in coverage. One of the best coverage linebackers in college football. Who is the parrot now? 😂 not saying he is the best or even better than Wilson at coverage but I like his instincts better and the fact that he can stay healthy. Plus doing what he did in the SEC means a lot more to me

Literally does it all!

funny how some people try to sound smart and the only way to do that is by trying to put other down because they think we don’t know as much football as them. Nice try though 

Just now, philafan4o8 said:

lol parrot? Clearly you did not watch Cooper play if you think he is untested in coverage. One of the best coverage linebackers in college football. Who is the parrot now? 😂 not saying he is the best or even better than Wilson at coverage but I like his instincts better and the fact that he can stay healthy. Plus doing what he did in the SEC means a lot more to me

Literally does it all!

funny how some people try to sound smart and the only way to do that is by trying to put other down because they think we don’t know as much football as them. Nice try though 

Cooper occasionally made a play on a pass in to the flats. He did little deep drops in zone, or man coverage. Hes very untested in coverage. Less detailed analysis shows he made some PDs in coverage. If you know what youre looking at, he is a complete projection as a coverage LB.

 

1 hour ago, HazletonEagle said:

Cooper occasionally made a play on a pass in to the flats. He did little deep drops in zone, or man coverage. Hes very untested in coverage. Less detailed analysis shows he made some PDs in coverage. If you know what youre looking at, he is a complete projection as a coverage LB.

 

We respectfully agree to disagree.

That's the exact type of LB Fangio wants. Great athleticism, great vs run, great blitzing, and can diagnose what is in front of him. Still don't understand why you are saying he did little in deep drops in zone or man coverage. He has shown he could do all of these things at TA&M. Do You think he is one of the best coverage LBs in college for just making a few plays in the flats?

There are actual negatives/unknowns you can talk about with Cooper (ie. frame, etc.) but coverage is not one of them. Plus coverage is not even a top 3 attribute you are looking at when scouting a LB

I am not saying he is the best LB of his generation or decade but I personally think he is the best LB in this class. If someone thinks otherwise, I could care less. All about perception.

2 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

We respectfully agree to disagree.

That's the exact type of LB Fangio wants. Great athleticism, great vs run, great blitzing, and can diagnose what is in front of him. Still don't understand why you are saying he did little in deep drops in zone or man coverage. He has shown he could do all of these things at TA&M. Do You think he is one of the best coverage LBs in college for just making a few plays in the flats?

There are actual negatives/unknowns you can talk about with Cooper (ie. frame, etc.) but coverage is not one of them. Plus coverage is not even a top 3 attribute you are looking at when scouting a LB

I am not saying he is the best LB of his generation or decade but I personally think he is the best LB in this class. If someone thinks otherwise, I could care less. All about perception.

Oh now it's respectful? Ok.

I don't think he is one of the best coverage LBs. I think that is assumed because of his athleticism and the couple times he made a part in the flats in some coverage. 

I think people jumped to that conclusion.  In reality,  very unproven there. 

I think he could be. But we don't actually know that. 

Also,  we do need coverage from our LBs, especially in this Fangio system. That is a huge reason the whole defense looked so bad last year. 

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

For the sake of double checking myself, I am watching Edgerrin Cooper cut up of A&M vs Auburn last year to check all of his coverage snaps. 

So far I have seen him line up over a receiver a few times, but not have any coverage responsibility on the play. He ends up blitzing or cheating up to the line to play run.

Finally in the second quarter with 13:45 left on the clock he is in zone coverage. 1:28 in the video. He starts off very hesitantly, and does not drop deep enough in his zone. There is no one in front of him and he fails to get adequate depth because he looks hesitant. 

Very next play he buzzes over to the middle of the field and picks up a guy running a slant. The QB isnt looking there and throws to the sideline. Ok job there. Not asked to do anything difficult.

2:31 in the video, he pretty much stays in place sitting on a RB curl route out of the backfield. Hes not particularly close to the RB. Probably a completion if the QB throws there, but he doesnt.

2:38 literally stands prefectly in place through the entire play doing nothing.

Very next play, sitting in the middle of the field. Sits on a RB angle route. Again, not particularly close. Allows the completion, and then gets juked by the RB for a missed tackle. 1st down.

3:04. Lined up kind of in slot but safety has responsibility for slot WR. QB runs his direction, jukes him. Missed tackle.

4:28 he is over the slot, 2 yards off the LOS. Slides over a bit to cover that WR and immediatedly passes him off as soon as he hits 2 yards. Sticks on his 2 yard mark, and picks up the TE leaking out to the flat. Does his assignment well there, but is literally not asked to cover anything beyond 4 yards.

5:28 once again, slot area but not over the WR. Does not have responsibility for the WR. QB runs it, easily taken out of the play by a TE lead block. Ends on his back. 1st down.

6:07 very bad coverage play. He is in that slot area again. Has safety help behind him. But he again stands flat footed as the slot WR runs a quick out. Would be easy completion but ball is underthrown and WR cant bring it in.

6:25 finally manned up on a WR but its a run play. Does not have to do anything.

6:57 he has middle of the field responsibility in zone again. There are 2 receiving options running free to the right of him. He gets about 4 yards of depth. QB throws to the opposite side of the field. He was nowhere near positioned to defend a pass to the WRs up the seam. There were safeties, but he needs more depth to make it a difficult window to throw to. There was nothing in front of him to hold him short there.

7:05 picks up a RB out of the backfield and the just start playing patty cake. 

 

 

Hardly asked to do anything in coverage at all. Very, very simple stuff. And he doesnt even do that well.

Now whats interesting is, if you re-watch this video with an eye to his overall performance rather than just looking for pass coverage- he isnt good.

Most of his tackles come from lining up on or near the LOS and providing ghost pressure. Then he takes a step back and acts more as a spy on the QB, or RB coming out of the backfield.

Any time he is an off ball LB, he gets eaten up by blocks, or misses tackles. 

Seriously, throw out pre-conceived notions you got from looking at single play twitter highlights, and online draft websites jumping on his bandwagon. Watch it open minded as if you havent seen him or heard of him before. Youll come away feeling very different if you can be objective about it.

 

 

@philafan4o8

On 3/1/2024 at 1:38 PM, HazletonEagle said:

Oh now it's respectful? Ok.

I don't think he is one of the best coverage LBs. I think that is assumed because of his athleticism and the couple times he made a part in the flats in some coverage. 

I think people jumped to that conclusion.  In reality,  very unproven there. 

I think he could be. But we don't actually know that. 

Also,  we do need coverage from our LBs, especially in this Fangio system. That is a huge reason the whole defense looked so bad last year. 

Lol you are the one who made it disrespectful. By trying to sound like the smartest man in the room with a hot take. What the hell are you talking about? 

Laughable that you think you can watch a cut-up of one game and make assumptions about the man's coverage skills. No one is saying he is the best coverage LB but he has shown ability to cover in man and zone. Anyone can pick a game and pick at it to fit their opinion. Watch all of his games and then make an opinion. His overall body of work speaks for itself. If you don't like him just say that.

Don't say "we don't actually know that." Change that "we" into an "I"

You are the only person that I have seen so far who has put his coverage skills in question. You need to take your own advice. I literally talked about his frame being a question. Yes, he MAY have some issues disengaging with NFL lineman but that is more of a projection. I guess some people outsmart themselves, we see it every year in the draft with reaches and people falling down draft boards based on poor scouting/bad information.

I have no intention of continuing to go back and forth. Like I said, we respectfully (now disrespectfully) agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

10 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

Lol you are the one who made it disrespectful. By trying to sound like the smartest man in the room with a hot take. What the hell are you talking about? 

Laughable that you think you can watch a cut-up of one game and make assumptions about the man's coverage skills. No one is saying he is the best coverage LB but he has shown ability to cover in man and zone. Anyone can pick a game and pick at it to fit their opinion. Watch all of his games and then make an opinion. His overall body of work speaks for itself. If you don't like him just say that.

Don't say "we don't actually know that." Change that "we" into an "I"

You are the only person that I have seen so far who has put his coverage skills in question. You need to take your own advice. I literally talked about his frame being a question. Yes, he MAY have some issues disengaging with NFL lineman but that is more of a projection. I guess some people outsmart themselves, we see it every year in the draft with reaches and people falling down draft boards based on poor scouting/bad information.

I have no intention of continuing to go back and forth. Like I said, we respectfully (now disrespectfully) agree to disagree. Have a nice day.

It seems you interpreted my post in a certain way based on your inferiority complex. Sorry about your issues. 

There is a lot of other stuff that are wrong in your post so Im glad you arent interested in continuing. It would have wasted a lot of my time. 

On 2/29/2024 at 5:59 PM, Talonblood said:

If we draft a LB, they have to be bigger than Trotter. We already have a tiny LB who is injured all the time, because he can't play with the big boys. We don't need another one. Get one with SIZE, if you are going to get one.

Off ball LBs aren't really big anymore. They seem to max out at like 230, 235 in this era. Most of the all pros are in this range. Mostly because of coverage responsibilities.

On 2/29/2024 at 2:59 PM, Talonblood said:

If we draft a LB, they have to be bigger than Trotter. We already have a tiny LB who is injured all the time, because he can't play with the big boys. We don't need another one. Get one with SIZE, if you are going to get one.

Here's why Levon Kirkland won't be an Eagle ...

Anytime you get a LB covering anybody, it's generally considered a mismatch. TEs are taller, WRs are faster, and RBs are shiftier. The entire debate about who will be better than whom at coverage in the NFL is pure speculation and if that was the most important part of the job for a LB, we wouldn't have ended the season on an embarrassing losing skid.

You want a guy that can be relied upon to tackle, a guy that can diagnose plays quickly, shed blocks and finish. Young LBs in the NFL usually take a couple seasons to be acceptable in coverage --- and by acceptable I mean just be in the right position to cause the QB to hesitate or look elsewhere. 

I have no idea which off ball LB in this draft will have the best career. There are a few prospects with good traits that hopefully will grow with coaching at the NFL level. I'm not usually concerned too much with injury histories --- unless that history demonstrates a recurring problem. With Wilson, I'd say he has had recurring shoulder issues, unfortunately. That's, IMO, a bigger gamble than a LB that hasn't really been tested in coverage. If I feel the prospect has a good football IQ and is generally intelligent, I'm confident he'll learn to understand coverage responsibilities. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Anytime you get a LB covering anybody, it's generally considered a mismatch. TEs are taller, WRs are faster, and RBs are shiftier. The entire debate about who will be better than whom at coverage in the NFL is pure speculation and if that was the most important part of the job for a LB, we wouldn't have ended the season on an embarrassing losing skid.

You want a guy that can be relied upon to tackle, a guy that can diagnose plays quickly, shed blocks and finish. Young LBs in the NFL usually take a couple seasons to be acceptable in coverage --- and by acceptable I mean just be in the right position to cause the QB to hesitate or look elsewhere. 

I have no idea which off ball LB in this draft will have the best career. There are a few prospects with good traits that hopefully will grow with coaching at the NFL level. I'm not usually concerned too much with injury histories --- unless that history demonstrates a recurring problem. With Wilson, I'd say he has had recurring shoulder issues, unfortunately. That's, IMO, a bigger gamble than a LB that hasn't really been tested in coverage. If I feel the prospect has a good football IQ and is generally intelligent, I'm confident he'll learn to understand coverage responsibilities. 

Some say Junior Colson is the best coverage LB in this draft.

Ive seen it said about some other lesser known guys like maybe Tyrone Hopper (who stinks overall).

Ill have to re-watch Colson with an eye just on coverage responsibilities. If he is actually good in coverage, hes maybe the best combination of adequate size, run filling, and covering, without significant injury history.

 

On the other hand, Wilson supposedly passed all medical checks and re-checks. And IF that is true, theres no LB even close to his stratosphere in this draft.

7 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Some say Junior Colson is the best coverage LB in this draft.

Ive seen it said about some other lesser known guys like maybe Tyrone Hopper (who stinks overall).

Ill have to re-watch Colson with an eye just on coverage responsibilities. If he is actually good in coverage, hes maybe the best combination of adequate size, run filling, and covering, without significant injury history.

 

On the other hand, Wilson supposedly passed all medical checks and re-checks. And IF that is true, theres no LB even close to his stratosphere in this draft.

Buckhalter passed all his medical tests before he returned each time. He didn't have a problem with "healing," it was durability that was the issue. 

 

Wilson might be the best LB prospect in this draft. It seems scouts aren't all as high on him as you, though. Nobody is using the "generational" cliche and it's not certain he'll even go in the 1st round. His combine was pretty good but some are questioning his strength. His height, speed and college production are all very good. I'm just not finding any scouting reports that aren't concerned about his thin frame, small arms and hands at the next level. They aren't really praising his football IQ either.

 

I'm not a scout and have to rely on what other professionals are saying. There are definitely things to like about him --- especially if he slips in the draft and you can get him late on day 2. I'm just not seeing anybody really talking him up as if he is some kind of sure thing. Aside from the injury history, there are other concerns (like taking on blocks) that aren't as big a deal in college as they are in the NFL. 

 

I kind of get the impression he's the kind of guy that if you have a need at the position, he can probably play from day 1. But I think he'll go through a lot of learning and assuming he stays healthy and adds about 5 lbs of muscle, probably needs a couple learning seasons before he begins to stand out at the next level. 

 

The modern NFL has devalued the position and this particular group of off ball LBs hasn't really been demanding notice, if you know what I mean. To be honest, anybody that goes in rd 1 is being over-valued by the team that drafts them. So we're likely looking at rd 2 before the first one is off the board. Where in rd 2 will it start and will it trigger a LB run? It will be interesting to see. Personally I prefer drafting real college LBs over the modern safety/LB hybrids so I do hope we get one on day 2.  The stuff we've bee reading about the Eagles and Cooper / Trotter, etc... kind of feels like the team's annual draft smokescreen. 

Get my guy Cooper

Green Bay