Jordan Davis

[ManchesterEagle]

Heck of a play for the sack on Daniels. I at first thought it was Carter he looked so athletic!

But! He only played 16% of snaps. I appreciate Washington needed to pass, but can we really exercise his 5th year option for such a limited role? 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

9 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Heck of a play for the sack on Daniels. I at first thought it was Carter he looked so athletic!

But! He only played 16% of snaps. I appreciate Washington needed to pass, but can we really exercise his 5th year option for such a limited role? 

 

I think unless they can get something for him i think they exercise the 5th year. Howie seems to always keep his first rounders the full 5 years unless they are absolutely awful like Reagor

[Cochis_Calhoun]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Heck of a play for the sack on Daniels. I at first thought it was Carter he looked so athletic!

But! He only played 16% of snaps. I appreciate Washington needed to pass, but can we really exercise his 5th year option for such a limited role? 

 

I think they mentioned it on commentary but Fangio has reduced the amount he rotates the D Line for the play offs, he's got Carter and Williams in for the majority of plays.

Across the season Davis has been up and down game by game but overall he's played around 37% of snaps. At that level it becomes a question of what you're prepared to pay, his fifth year option is projected to cost about $11.5mill which would land him about 25th in DT salaries, is he worth as much as guys like Maliek Collins at the 49ers?

My view is they might try and get an extension done, but an 11.5mill 5th year option for Davis' output as it stands is probably a tad rich. He may be one they let test the market first.

[ManchesterEagle]

44 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I think they mentioned it on commentary but Fangio has reduced the amount he rotates the D Line for the play offs, he's got Carter and Williams in for the majority of plays.

Across the season Davis has been up and down game by game but overall he's played around 37% of snaps. At that level it becomes a question of what you're prepared to pay, his fifth year option is projected to cost about $11.5mill which would land him about 25th in DT salaries, is he worth as much as guys like Maliek Collins at the 49ers?

My view is they might try and get an extension done, but an 11.5mill 5th year option for Davis' output as it stands is probably a tad rich. He may be one they let test the market first.

He rotated more in this game, I think because Washington were going up tempo, no huddle at times. Ojomo played 22 snaps more than Davis, so it’s clear he’s currently 4th in the rotation. I just don’t see how they can justify the 5th year option at the moment as you say, particularly with Carter’s mammoth deal coming up after next year. 

[brkmsn]

21 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

He rotated more in this game, I think because Washington were going up tempo, no huddle at times. Ojomo played 22 snaps more than Davis, so it’s clear he’s currently 4th in the rotation. I just don’t see how they can justify the 5th year option at the moment as you say, particularly with Carter’s mammoth deal coming up after next year. 

Also in the 2nd half, we weren't worried about stopping a run game. It had a lot to do with the flow of the game. 

Right now top DTs are making $20M+/year. I'm not too worried about a 5th year option for just over half that amount for a player that is solid. Agholor made over $9M on his option and had a terrible season.

I think Davis at $11.5M would be a better value. It's also important to keep in mind that DTs --- especially NTs rarely break out of the gates as super stars and often don't reach their potential until around that 2nd contract. 

[ManchesterEagle]

47 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Also in the 2nd half, we weren't worried about stopping a run game. It had a lot to do with the flow of the game. 

Right now top DTs are making $20M+/year. I'm not too worried about a 5th year option for just over half that amount for a player that is solid. Agholor made over $9M on his option and had a terrible season.

I think Davis at $11.5M would be a better value. It's also important to keep in mind that DTs --- especially NTs rarely break out of the gates as super stars and often don't reach their potential until around that 2nd contract. 

I hear you, but he’s still not playing that much and it’s whether the Eagles want to commit that amount to a player who is playing less than 50% of snaps.

Agholor actually had a breakout season when we picked up his 5th year. Was during our Super Bowl run as well. He sucked in the 5th year, but was pretty good last two years.

i think a lot depends on whether they resign Williams

[Cochis_Calhoun]

22 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Also in the 2nd half, we weren't worried about stopping a run game. It had a lot to do with the flow of the game. 

Right now top DTs are making $20M+/year. I'm not too worried about a 5th year option for just over half that amount for a player that is solid. Agholor made over $9M on his option and had a terrible season.

I think Davis at $11.5M would be a better value. It's also important to keep in mind that DTs --- especially NTs rarely break out of the gates as super stars and often don't reach their potential until around that 2nd contract. 

If you're going to pay Davis $11.5million fully guaranteed, how much do you pay Williams who's outperformed him at DT and is also due an extension?  Carter is also going to want Chris Jones+ money in a couple of years and he absolutely will get that somewhere if we can't do it.

I'm not against extending Davis, but an $11.5million 5th year option as a rotational DT just isn't realistic in my view with the other extensions they've got coming due, they need to make him an offer on 3 year at about $8mill per pro rated with void years to make the cap hit's $5mill or similar.

[Kz!]

We're probably going to have to let Milton walk after this season based partly on the talent behind him with Ojomo and Davis. So Davis will be in line for an increased snap count next year, and we'll see if he deserves the 5th year option or a new contract. He's unquestionably a difference maker in the run game, it's all about conditioning and if he can be effective with more snaps. He seemed to struggle to open this season when he was playing around 50% of the snaps and was much more effective at 30-40%, but conditioning is a thing that is fixable. If he's going to land a big second contract, he'll have to play more than a third of the snaps. 

[beto_eagles]

This is why I think Howie might trade him and sign Williams. I know they're different players with different jobs, but you just can't pay Davis a lot of money for 16% of snaps. 

We'll see what happens in the offseason, for now, I hope he destroys Pacheco and Mahomes during his limited time on the field. 

[Ace Nova]

I think it’s a no brainer that they will exercise Davis’ 5th year option.  When given the opportunity, Davis has played well.
 

 The only reason he doesn’t get a higher % of snaps is because Williams has played at a "slightly better” level alongside Carter but it’s not "enough of a difference” imo to let Davis walk.  

The more experience Davis gets in Fangio’s system, the better he will get.  I have little doubt he could end up starting or getting a much higher % of snaps within the next two seasons. 

[jsdarkstar]

6 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Heck of a play for the sack on Daniels. I at first thought it was Carter he looked so athletic!

But! He only played 16% of snaps. I appreciate Washington needed to pass, but can we really exercise his 5th year option for such a limited role? 

 

Yep. Great play, even though his primary job is to stop the run. Sacks are just a cherry on top. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

I think they’ll sign him to a new deal that’s appropriate for his role rather than taking up his fifth year option.

[ManchesterEagle]

8 hours ago, Kz! said:

We're probably going to have to let Milton walk after this season based partly on the talent behind him with Ojomo and Davis. So Davis will be in line for an increased snap count next year, and we'll see if he deserves the 5th year option or a new contract. He's unquestionably a difference maker in the run game, it's all about conditioning and if he can be effective with more snaps. He seemed to struggle to open this season when he was playing around 50% of the snaps and was much more effective at 30-40%, but conditioning is a thing that is fixable. If he's going to land a big second contract, he'll have to play more than a third of the snaps. 

5th year option needs to be exercised before next season. I don’t think they can based on what we have seen. 

[Ace Nova]

1 hour ago, ManchesterEagle said:

5th year option needs to be exercised before next season. I don’t think they can based on what we have seen. 

It’s only 11.6 million for Davis.  100% chance they exercise it.  It’s not even debatable at that price. 

[brkmsn]

10 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

If you're going to pay Davis $11.5million fully guaranteed, how much do you pay Williams who's outperformed him at DT and is also due an extension?  Carter is also going to want Chris Jones+ money in a couple of years and he absolutely will get that somewhere if we can't do it.

I'm not against extending Davis, but an $11.5million 5th year option as a rotational DT just isn't realistic in my view with the other extensions they've got coming due, they need to make him an offer on 3 year at about $8mill per pro rated with void years to make the cap hit's $5mill or similar.

Honestly, I expect an extension to get worked out before the 5th year anyway.

If the Eagles win this Super Bowl, it's likely going to have much more to do with the defensive performance than in the past. I know it may sound funny, strange or whatever you want to call it, but I think it's important to Carter, Davis, Dean, and N. Smith to continue enjoying the opportunity to play together. I think keeping them together will be a factor in contract negotiations. If they were all the best in the NFL at their respective positions, Howie probably wouldn't be able to keep all of them. But since Davis hasn't really had a true breakout season, he shouldn't be too hard to keep on a team friendly extension. Davis just turned 25, so there's still a good chance he will continue to get better. 

With the Chefs back in the super bowl, the NFL should enjoy another Taylor Swift induced salary cap increase next season paving the way to get the extensions done. 

[PoconoDon]

He needs to do a lot of running in the off season to build up his stamina and reduce his weight. If his gas tank was bigger, he'd be better off and so would the team. As it is, he's solid and Milton the Monster is a very good #3, so the team is gonna be ok.

[brkmsn]

15 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

He needs to do a lot of running in the off season to build up his stamina and reduce his weight. If his gas tank was bigger, he'd be better off and so would the team. As it is, he's solid and Milton the Monster is a very good #3, so the team is gonna be ok.

I don't think his stamina is what limited his snaps Sunday. He's primarily a run defender and just wasn't needed much vs the commanders. 

As you already said, Williams is also good and needs to be on the field as is Ojomo:

 

[weko]

20 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

He rotated more in this game, I think because Washington were going up tempo, no huddle at times. Ojomo played 22 snaps more than Davis, so it’s clear he’s currently 4th in the rotation. I just don’t see how they can justify the 5th year option at the moment as you say, particularly with Carter’s mammoth deal coming up after next year. 

I agree.  I would find out his value.  I would imagine some team might give us a 3rd rounder for him

[ManchesterEagle]

9 hours ago, Ace Nova said:

It’s only 11.6 million for Davis.  100% chance they exercise it.  It’s not even debatable at that price. 

It’s absolutely debatable! 11.5 million would be one of the top 5 salary cap hits this year. And the dude is playing 20% of snaps in the playoffs and is currently our 4th DT! He played well and is not a bust, but right now they would be probably better to extend Williams rather than exercise the 5th year. 

[DieselEagle]

23 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I think unless they can get something for him i think they exercise the 5th year. Howie seems to always keep his first rounders the full 5 years unless they are absolutely awful like Reagor

agreed.  I think he'd have to be useless not to exercise the 5th year, but you probably have to decide whether to exercise it or extend Williams.  might come down to that.  then draft a replacement.  

[Ace Nova]

21 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I hear you, but he’s still not playing that much and it’s whether the Eagles want to commit that amount to a player who is playing less than 50% of snaps.

Agholor actually had a breakout season when we picked up his 5th year. Was during our Super Bowl run as well. He sucked in the 5th year, but was pretty good last two years.

i think a lot depends on whether they resign Williams

Davis’ issues haven’t been "performance” when he’s played.  He’s already shown enough to deserve the 5th year option., especially at 11 mil.  

And in terms of the 11 mil cap hit, it won’t hit until 2 seasons from now - the cap itself will be higher then plus we have Howie Roseman, the cap wizard himself.  I’m not worried about it. 

[time2rock]

25 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Davis’ issues haven’t been "performance” when he’s played.  He’s already shown enough to deserve the 5th year option., especially at 11 mil.  

And in terms of the 11 mil cap hit, it won’t hit until 2 seasons from now - the cap itself will be higher then plus we have Howie Roseman, the cap wizard himself.  I’m not worried about it. 

People still worry about management of the cap under Howie?

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

It’s absolutely debatable! 11.5 million would be one of the top 5 salary cap hits this year. And the dude is playing 20% of snaps in the playoffs and is currently our 4th DT! He played well and is not a bust, but right now they would be probably better to extend Williams rather than exercise the 5th year. 

Williams as a free agent will have the opportunity to go to a team looking for a full-time starter and his value will be similar to what Hargrave signed for when he left here. So ... what is the better value, Williams for around $20M/season or Davis' 5th year option?

There's no doubt an extension here for Williams wouldn't have an immediate large cap hit with the void years and likely wouldn't hit that $11M mark until the 3rd season at the earliest. One thing to keep in mind, though, about Davis' 5th year option is it's the cheapest possible for his position because he hasn't made any Pro Bowls or played 50% of the defensive snaps. If we take a contract with void years and compare it to a rookie contract with an option year, the rookie contract is still the better value and smaller cap hit overall (during the duration of the contract). In Davis' case it would basically be a 5-year, $28.5M contract. If we extend him without exercising the 5th year option, what's the market value for a solid 25 year old DT right now? $7M-$10M / year? We could lower the initial cap hit by adding void years, but we'd still be paying him more per year for the duration of the contract. 

If we choose not to exercise the option, he could potentially leave as a FA after next season which may create a hole we have to fill on the roster (especially if Williams leaves for a top-dollar FA contract) which we may have to fill in free agency paying some other DT/NT the same amount (or more) that we would have paid Davis. When the Eagles signed Hargrave in 2020, he was coming off his rookie contract and signed a 3-year / $43M contract to play here. Before that (2019) we signed Malik Jackson to a 3-year / $30M contract. In 2017 Jernigan signed a 4-year / $48M contract extension with the Eagles. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

3 hours ago, time2rock said:

People still worry about management of the cap under Howie?

It's not about the cap necessarily, but for what it's worth you can't finagle a 5th year option, it's a fixed value fully guaranteed single year cap hit. It's also a question of who's a better bet, Davis or Williams? As it stands in this play off run Williams has played an average of 56.6% of snaps, while Davis has played an average of 20% and Ojomo has played an average of 35.3%. I just don't see how you put Davis in the top 30 DT salaries on that level of use, you either sign him to a cheaper long term deal or let him walk, because paying him $11.5 million as DT#3/#4 means you're either paying Williams or Ojomo more and / or letting one of them walk even though you use them more than Davis. We can't afford to pay them all at that level, no other team can or does pay their interior line at that level, decisions will have to be made.

Carter is a different question again, he's elite at his position and is going to set the top of the market for DT when the time comes.

[ManchesterEagle]

2 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Williams as a free agent will have the opportunity to go to a team looking for a full-time starter and his value will be similar to what Hargrave signed for when he left here. So ... what is the better value, Williams for around $20M/season or Davis' 5th year option?

There's no doubt an extension here for Williams wouldn't have an immediate large cap hit with the void years and likely wouldn't hit that $11M mark until the 3rd season at the earliest. One thing to keep in mind, though, about Davis' 5th year option is it's the cheapest possible for his position because he hasn't made any Pro Bowls or played 50% of the defensive snaps. If we take a contract with void years and compare it to a rookie contract with an option year, the rookie contract is still the better value and smaller cap hit overall (during the duration of the contract). In Davis' case it would basically be a 5-year, $28.5M contract. If we extend him without exercising the 5th year option, what's the market value for a solid 25 year old DT right now? $7M-$10M / year? We could lower the initial cap hit by adding void years, but we'd still be paying him more per year for the duration of the contract. 

If we choose not to exercise the option, he could potentially leave as a FA after next season which may create a hole we have to fill on the roster (especially if Williams leaves for a top-dollar FA contract) which we may have to fill in free agency paying some other DT/NT the same amount (or more) that we would have paid Davis. When the Eagles signed Hargrave in 2020, he was coming off his rookie contract and signed a 3-year / $43M contract to play here. Before that (2019) we signed Malik Jackson to a 3-year / $30M contract. In 2017 Jernigan signed a 4-year / $48M contract extension with the Eagles. 

Everything you say makes a lot of sense. And if Williams commands that kind of salary then we need to let him go. He’s a good player but probably been made to look better by the attention Carter gets.

My concern is that Davis is currently the 4th DT in the rotation behind Ojomo and Williams. Maybe that’s because we’ve had a lead, but this is the key part of the playoffs, so if we are going to exercise the 5th year option, I would like the confidence that Fangio will play him more.