21 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Interesting theory, but I would think you'd have to be pretty distracted as a helicopter pilot to miss a jet right in front of you.  DEI or not DEI

I actually think this theory makes perfect sense.  If you follow the flight map with the communications it is pretty evident that the flight that get hit has veered off to the east to begin its turn and the helo pilot is looking directly toward the next flight in the path and its landing lights.  As the two flights approach the eventual crash point the CRJ landing lights are facing the field and the helo is coming right at it from the side and wouldn't clearly see the CRJ if it was focusing on the other flights landing lights.  

Clear as day what happened in these videos from CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/video/american-airline-plane-crash-washington-exclusive-video-ldn-digvid

39 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

You can yell all you want that "Trump is worse" and I'll just agree 1000% because he is but that doesn't mean there aren't other issues in play.

 Poor guy just can't bring himself to do it. 

26 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Interesting theory, but I would think you'd have to be pretty distracted as a helicopter pilot to miss a jet right in front of you.  DEI or not DEI

Especially considering a military aircraft would have state of the art situational awareness systems. 

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Especially considering a military aircraft would have state of the art situational awareness systems. 

The state of the art awareness system on a UH-60 is the crew chief sticking his head out the window. 
 

Not even joking. 

1 minute ago, Bill said:

The state of the art awareness system on a UH-60 is the crew chief sticking his head out the window. 
 

Not even joking. 

Huh? Is it just specific variants that have FLIR?

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Huh? Is it just specific variants that have FLIR?

Yeah. IIRC they’re reserved for the ones that transport the cool guys. 
 

Even still, the FLIR image is coming up on a small MFD, so it’s more or less to get a closer look at something or to use as a targeting system for onboard weapons, not for navigation.
 

Im pretty sure what happened is that when they confirmed visual they were looking at a different aircraft further away, but it’s going to take a year at least for the NTSP to do their thing. 

sorry if already posted..this is one of the clearest video I have come across

 

I found out this evening that one of my nieces husbands was supposed to have gone on a hunting trip with his best friend to Wichita and for one reason or another, didn't go. If he had gone, he'd have been on that flight going back home. Unfortunately, his best friend did go and was on the plane and of course died in the crash. 

 

15 hours ago, pisceschica said:

sorry if already posted..this is one of the clearest video I have come across

 

How does something like this happen? It almost has to be intentional

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

How does something like this happen? It almost has to be intentional

Just looks like the black hawk never saw the jet and inadvertently flew into it's path. 

6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

How does something like this happen? It almost has to be intentional

Waiting to see if the NYP report is confirmed

A new report by the New York Post suggests that the Black Hawk was flying nearly twice as high as it should have been and that the helicopter was not equipped with a new technology that would have alerted air traffic control to its dangerously deviated path.

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Just looks like the black hawk never saw the jet and inadvertently flew into it's path. 

But also the jet doesn't appear to alter its path at all. How could they miss those bright lights?

It's not as nimble as some aircraft but some kind of deviation early on would have maybe seen a near miss instead of a direct hit.

I'm not a pilot or in aviation so this is totally a layman's take, it just looks crazy to me.

36 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

But also the jet doesn't appear to alter its path at all. How could they miss those bright lights?

It's not as nimble as some aircraft but some kind of deviation early on would have maybe seen a near miss instead of a direct hit.

I'm not a pilot or in aviation so this is totally a layman's take, it just looks crazy to me.

Tape toilet paper tubes over your eye sockets and go for a drive at night, disregarding all stop signs and red lights because those don’t exist in the air. 
 

This is the air equivalent of an MVA at an intersection because oncoming traffic was blocked by the A pillar, and when you were told to not hit the other car and asked if you saw it, you spotted the wrong one and thought it was the right one. 

35 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

But also the jet doesn't appear to alter its path at all. How could they miss those bright lights?

It's not as nimble as some aircraft but some kind of deviation early on would have maybe seen a near miss instead of a direct hit.

I'm not a pilot or in aviation so this is totally a layman's take, it just looks crazy to me.

I am also a lay person. But I would imagine it is relatively easier for a helicopter to maneuver have an emergency landing than it would be for a commercial aircraft descending needing a long run way..not to mention DCA is surrounded mostly by water which limits their options.

17 minutes ago, Bill said:

Tape toilet paper tubes over your eye sockets and go for a drive at night, disregarding all stop signs and red lights because those don’t exist in the air. 
 

This is the air equivalent of an MVA at an intersection because oncoming traffic was blocked by the A pillar, and when you were told to not hit the other car and asked if you saw it, you spotted the wrong one and thought it was the right one. 

I understand that visibility is severely handicapped. But the helicopter appeared to be directly ahead in the line of sight.

I'm only basing this on the one video, just reacting to what I see there.

19 minutes ago, pisceschica said:

I am also a lay person. But I would imagine it is relatively easier for a helicopter to maneuver have an emergency landing than it would be for a commercial aircraft descending needing a long run way..not to mention DCA is surrounded mostly by water which limits their options.

Sure, either aircraft making some kind of evasive maneuver early enough may have avoided the broader calamity - I suspect in the case of a near miss the smaller helicopter may have had a more difficult time with the air current and pressure changes. 

But I could more easily see the helicopter hovering more or less stationary and facing away, unable to see the airliner before it was too late. And from a stationary position evading a plane coming at you would be much more difficult. From that video the helicopter looked stationary, are other angles showing it moving?

I would think that based on that video, if the helicopter was stationary for at least the 5-10s preceding the impact, that the pilot of the airline would have been able to see it. 

33 minutes ago, pisceschica said:

I am also a lay person. But I would imagine it is relatively easier for a helicopter to maneuver have an emergency landing than it would be for a commercial aircraft descending needing a long run way..not to mention DCA is surrounded mostly by water which limits their options.

I heard from an expert that they can stop pretty quickly.

37 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I understand that visibility is severely handicapped. But the helicopter appeared to be directly ahead in the line of sight.

I'm only basing this on the one video, just reacting to what I see there.

Yeah, but you’re looking at a two dimensional recording of a three dimensional space, not to mention that camera lenses do all kinds of funky stuff.
 

Like I said, I’m fairly confident that they didn’t see the other airframe and were looking at the wrong one. In the UH-60, you’ve got pillars all over the place as it’s not a bubble canopy, plus they were flying on (presumably) dual tube NODs. They just didn’t see it. It seems hard to imagine, but I’m pretty confident that is what happened. 

Just a random thought that isn't related to these recent plane crashes, but it occurred to me that 9/11 involved (in part), D.C. (actually Arlington, VA), and PA and now within 48 hours, we have the two locations involved in two more air disasters with Reagan National being in Arlington and then the crash in Philadelphia.

5 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

But also the jet doesn't appear to alter its path at all. How could they miss those bright lights?

It's not as nimble as some aircraft but some kind of deviation early on would have maybe seen a near miss instead of a direct hit.

I'm not a pilot or in aviation so this is totally a layman's take, it just looks crazy to me.

The jet (on the right) seems to be flying towards the camera. The black hawk comes in from the left and intersects its path. I'm guessing the jet never saw it until it was too late, maybe because it was descending. All it takes is 50 feet or so of height to occlude the view out of the cockpit enough to miss it. If they'll release the audio of the black boxes, we'll have a better idea of what they were seeing. Just looks like a tragic, freak accident.

4 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I would think that based on that video, if the helicopter was stationary for at least the 5-10s preceding the impact, that the pilot of the airline would have been able to see it. 

I'm pretty sure the helo is on the left based on the way it's flying. The jet (much brighter lights) looks stationary because it's flying towards the person who was recording with their cell phone. Unless I have it backwards, which would be more confusing for why the lights on a black hawk are that much brighter than a commercial jet.

Interesting to hear later that the FAA knew about the east coast drone all along.

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I'm pretty sure the helo is on the left based on the way it's flying. The jet (much brighter lights) looks stationary because it's flying towards the person who was recording with their cell phone. Unless I have it backwards, which would be more confusing for why the lights on a black hawk are that much brighter than a commercial jet.

No, you’re correct on that. 
 

TBH helos don’t really have that many lights you can see from above. 

This guy does a pretty decent breakdown of what things kind of would have looked like from both perspectives. Not the same airframes, but you get a general idea. A little long, but towards the end he shows what it’s like flying the helo routes at the assigned altitudes.