32 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think yeah it probably was unfair because he wasn’t Chip’s guy and I think Chip wanted someone who could be a little mobile? That said I was never a Foles guy and I never thought what he did in the 27-2 season nor the Super Bowl run was sustainable for him. Sadly we will never know and it’s nothing more than a fun debate we can all have.

I think everyone here was saying he really wanted Mariota, so I can see that being true.  The issue was that he had a guy that did extremely well in his system (as you pointed out). So it made absolutely zero sense to trade him for Sam Bradford, and to get rid of the other players that performed well. Chip was such an idiot, lol

7 minutes ago, MF POON said:

I think everyone here was saying he really wanted Mariota, so I can see that being true.  The issue was that he had a guy that did extremely well in his system (as you pointed out). So it made absolutely zero sense to trade him for Sam Bradford, and to get rid of the other players that performed well. Chip was such an idiot, lol

I think (and I’m not saying I agree) Chip wanted a mobile QB. When he couldn’t get that I think he felt a quick release accurate QB was what he needed. The logic with Bradford was there. The reality (that they overlooked in bringing him in) was that he was an accurate QB who couldn’t stay healthy and went missing in big spots.

55 minutes ago, Lambo said:

AJ > Jeffrey

Smitty > Torrey Smith

Barkley >>>> Blount/Ajayi

Goedert - Ertz - I will call this a wash.  Goedert is way better after the catch, but Ertz was a better route runner.

Mailata > Vatai

Dickerson > Wisniewski

Jurgens < Kelce

Becton < Brooks

Lane 2017 > Lane 2024

It was good in 2017, but the 2024 team is pretty much better across the board.

 

52 minutes ago, Uscg-green said:

I didn't say it was as good but it was good in it's own right..

Actually I think the 2017 offense was pretty similar to 2024 if you delve a bit deeper…

The 2017 line was at least as good if not better as you say.

AJ declined pretty dramatically after 2018, but he put up as good if not better numbers with the Bears than AJ did with the Titans. You also have to factor in Agholor who was really good in 2017. Peak Ertz was better than Goedert.

2024 D is better all round. 

1. McNabb

2. Randall

3. Hurts

Hurts will be #1 pretty soon, he'd just need to be average over the next 3-4 seasons.

Having said that, if it's only about winning:

1. Hurts

2. Foles

3. Thompson

It really depends.

If Jalen Hurts continues his trajectory, he will be considered the best Eagles QB of all time - simple.  

 

As of now, he doesn't have the overall "body of work" that McNabb has.  McNabb - during the Andy Reid Era - turned this franchise into a perennial winner.  5 NFC Championship games plus a Super Bowl appearance is a solid resume.  McNabb also had "questionable" receiving talent for the majority of his career here.  The one year he had receiving talent (close to what this team has now - he had TO) he went to the Super Bowl.  Granted, he didn't close the deal and had TO not been one legged, that could have ended differently as well. TO had an amazing game but had he been 100% good chance it could have gotten us the extra few points for a win. 

So "Overall Body of work" still goes to McNabb - but that could change within a season or two, imo

 

In terms of raw talent - Randall Cunningham - had Cunningham had a coach like Andy Reid mentoring him, who knows how his career could have developed?

 

And obviously we have Nick Foles - still holds the title as "most clutch" QB in Eagles history (although Hurts is gaining there as well). 

Foles had great year or two here as a starter, was traded away - came back as a backup but then led this team to its first Super Bowl victory once Wentz went down for the season- with a team that had lost 9 or 10 starters by the time they made it to the Super Bowl.  Then came back the following year, after being the backup all year and led them to one of the greatest finishes in franchise history to end the season - got them into the playoffs (they had a 15% chance of making the playoffs when he eventually started - they had to win 6 or 7 straight games to finish the season and he did it.).  Then won them another playoff game and came within (possibly) a dropped pass of going back to his 2nd straight Super Bowl in as many years.  That is as clutch as it gets.
 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Portyansky said:

Hurts, McNabb, Foles. Even with the SB was hard to put Hurts in front of #5. You guys forget who #5 had to work with?

Whose that? 

Really good O line good RBs Good TEs top 5 Defense every year.

WRs werent all pros but come on now.

Compare that to Cunningham, one of the worst Offensive lines in the league every year, zero running game other than himself crap offensive game plan that consisted of make 5 big plays and while those 90s Ds were great they never did anything in the playoffs.

Ill always maintain you give Randall the same rosters Mcnabb had and he thrives, you stick mcnabb in randalls place and he sucks 

Foles is not just about the SB. He was like 11-2 in must win games. (the 2 were on massive Alshon and Riley Cooper drops)

Wentz absolutely demolished the 2018 season. Foles took over at 6-7 and balled out to get the Eagles to 9-7 and playoffs.

McNabb has those 6 awful games (OK, 5 awful and a very good 2004 NFCCG) but he also has the abomination of 2009 Philly Dallas Week 17 and wildcard to end his career. He was all-time awful in both games and he danced like a fool in-between. Vick did as much as he did in like 4 plays. Winning in week 17 was the path to a bye.  Winning in the WC was an instant chance to make up for the previous week.  You trojan horse that turd to DC ASAP after that.

A combined 58-7 Dallas over Philly with Vick throwing in another 7 for 58-14

You want that on a best of franchise list? 

3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

The thing about Foles is not just the SB. He was like 7-2 in must win games. (and the 2 were on massive Alshon and Riley Cooper drops)

Wentz absolutely demolished the 2018 season. Foles took over at 6-7 and balled out to get the Eagles to 9-7 and playoffs.

McNabb has those 6 awful games (OK, 5 awful and a very good 2004 NFCCG) but he also has the abomination of 2009 Philly Dallas Week 17 and wildcard to end his career. He was all-time awful in both games and he danced like a fool in-between. Vick did as much as he did in like 4 plays. Winning in week 17 was the path to a bye.  Winning in the WC was an instant chance to make up for the previous week.  You trojan horse that turd to DC ASAP after that.

A combined 58-7 Dallas over Philly with Vick throwing in another 7 for 58-14

You want that on a best of franchise list? 

 Come on now - Vick played out of his mind that year.  No other NFL QB outperformed Vick during that stretch - until they eventually lost in the playoffs.

Prime McNabb was a playmaker - and he could extend plays like no one else during his prime and had moves like Saquon when running the ball AND a cannon for an arm. 

For about 5 years he was easily a top 5 - arguably a top 3 NFL QB behind only Brady and Manning.  AND he did it with James Thrash and an annual rotation of WR's until he eventually had TO - and went to the Super Bowl his first year with a solid #1.  The only question about McNabb's career during his prime is if they should have let him remain more mobile instead of "training him" to be a pocket passer.  He obviously "bought into" the concept of being primarily a pocket passer but had they given him just a little more freedom (as they do with Hurts now) I'm pretty sure some of those teams would have been that much better. 

The Eagles carried McNabb so often. There was a game vs Miami where he played 5 drives, left with 2 picks and a 0.4 passer rating and AJ Feeley did just enough to help the team win anyway. He had a 29.1 rating in the famous 14-10 Westbrook punt return game. The Eagles won a game where he was 8 for 21 for 60 yards. The D got 6 turnovers and Rossum had a punt return.

 

The 2002 Eagles were 5-1 with far below replacement level AJ and Koy.

The 2006 Eagles were 5-1 with Garcia.

McNabb might have carried the offense in 2000-2001, but that was over by 2002.

Sure the 2005 Eagles were 2-5 with Mike McMahon but that guy was a train wreck.

 

I would never subject my worst enemy to watching the Ronde! game but its just textbook awful QB play. Brian Mitchell returns a long kickoff and Duce runs the next play in from the 20 for 7-0 Eagles. McNabb leads them to 3 points and has 3 turnovers the rest of the way. His one really nice play was an exciting long run... he hits a wide open Ronde on the next play.

Special teams gave him 7. The D held the other team to 20. The Eagles never had a chance with #5 that day.

They could have played another 12 quarters and he still would not have scored.

19 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

 Come on now - Vick played out of his mind that year.  No other NFL QB outperformed Vick during that stretch - until they eventually lost in the playoffs.

Vick had a 12 game streak in 2010 that was the best of his career by a distance as a passer and like prime Vick rushing and got him a big QB contract, after that he was actually pretty bad as a QB, he was a turnover machine in 2011 (18 turnovers in 13 games, 6 other fumbles that we recovered).

3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

The Eagles carried McNabb so often. There was a game vs Miami where he played 5 drives, left with 2 picks and a 0.4 passer rating and AJ Feeley did just enough to help the team win anyway. He had a 29.1 rating in the famous 14-10 Westbrook punt return game. The Eagles won a game where he was 8 for 21 for 60 yards. The D got 6 turnovers and Rossum had a punt return.

 

The 2002 Eagles were 5-1 with far below replacement level AJ and Koy.

The 2006 Eagles were 5-1 with Garcia.

McNabb might have carried the offense in 2000-2001, but that was over by 2002.

Sure the 2005 Eagles were 2-5 with Mike McMahon but that guy was a train wreck.

 

I would never subject my worst enemy to watching the Ronde! game but its just textbook awful QB play. Brian Mitchell returns a long kickoff and Duce runs the next play in from the 20 for 7-0 Eagles. McNabb leads them to 3 points and has 3 turnovers the rest of the way. His one really nice play was an exciting long run... he hits a wide open Ronde on the next play.

Special teams gave him 7. The D held the other team to 20. The Eagles never had a chance with #5 that day.

They could have played another 12 quarters and he still would not have scored.

You're cherry picking a 10 year career.  Every NFL QB has bad halves and bad games - look what just happened to Patrick Mahomes during the first half of the Super Bowl.  Pretty similar to the stats (possibly worse) than what you just described as one of McNabb's worst halves in a  regular season Miami game.  That happens and it happens to the best.

Both AJ Feely and Koy Detmer were decent backups but flashes in the pan as starters.  (I liked them both a ton at the time)  But that said,  neither of them could compete with a 100% healthy McNabb in his prime. 

This past season, we just witnessed both Pickett and McKee come in and look decent while Hurts was out.  But when Hurts was healthy, he came back and went on to win the Super Bowl. 

 

Just now, Ace Nova said:

You're cherry picking a 10 year career.  Every NFL QB has bad halves and bad games - look what just happened to Patrick Mahomes during the first half of the Super Bowl.  Pretty similar to the stats (possibly worse) than what you just described as one of McNabb's worst halves in a  regular season Miami game.  That happens and it happens to the best.

Both AJ Feely and Koy Detmer were decent backups but flashes in the pan as starters.  (I liked them both a ton at the time)  But that said,  neither of them could compete with a 100% healthy McNabb in his prime. 

This past season, we just witnessed both Pickett and McKee come in and look decent while Hurts was out.  But when Hurts was healthy, he came back and went on to win the Super Bowl. 

 

Pickett looked barely adequate, to the point I don't think it was worth trading for him as we'd have noticed no marked difference between him and what McKee could do as backup.

4 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Pickett looked barely adequate, to the point I don't think it was worth trading for him as we'd have noticed no marked difference between him and what McKee could do as backup.

Pickett looked a lot better when he had a week to prepare - made some nice throws - with cracked ribs, nonetheless. 

That said, if the Eagles decide to move forward with McKee as the primary backup, it would make sense - especially if the team could get draft capital in return for Pickett.  McKee has shown enough in his limited playing time to warrant a shot at being #2 and the only way to continue to develop McKee would be as the #2 at this point, imo.

3 hours ago, MF POON said:

He's only being considered as one of the best coaches ever AFTER Mahomes. Reid was always considered a good coach with huge flaws.  I remember many of us raging over poor clock management and lack of a hurry up offense.  How many times did we yell about the lack of run plays with Reid? The "we're fine there" and "square peg, round hole" criticism?  

There's too much to type about why the team lost all those championship games.  Yes McNabb had poor play in a couple, but Reid's poor coaching imo was the biggest factor. 

Yeah, I've never understood the love for Reid (after he left) on here.

(Obviously I'm not from Philly, nor even American. Is it because he brought a winning culture back after years of losing ? Sincere question btw)

Every success he's had with KC just reminds me of all the disappointments with the Eagles. 

I know it wasn't all on him, but the factors you list are a big part of it.

Anyway, it's done now.

14 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

I count winning in big games more than stats so I have: 

 

1. Hurts

2. Foles

3. Cunningham 

I know Pukes McNabb had more big wins but he embarrassed himself in the SB along with a 1-4 NFCCG record. 

 

In no particular order (other than chronological): 

Thompson, Van Brocklin, Foles, Hurts

2 hours ago, Utebird said:

Whose that? 

Really good O line good RBs Good TEs top 5 Defense every year.

WRs werent all pros but come on now.

Compare that to Cunningham, one of the worst Offensive lines in the league every year, zero running game other than himself crap offensive game plan that consisted of make 5 big plays and while those 90s Ds were great they never did anything in the playoffs.

Ill always maintain you give Randall the same rosters Mcnabb had and he thrives, you stick mcnabb in randalls place and he sucks 

 

Nahhhhh, lol. Quick, Carmichael, and Barnett are better than Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell.  I'm a fan because of Cunningham, but McNabb was the better QB. Cunningham also has more INTs and less TDs, and he played longer with better talent around him.  

I'm so disappointed that small bunch of Hurts haters from a few years ago were banned now hahahahahaha

49 minutes ago, MF POON said:

 

Nahhhhh, lol. Quick, Carmichael, and Barnett are better than Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell.  I'm a fan because of Cunningham, but McNabb was the better QB. Cunningham also has more INTs and less TDs, and he played longer with better talent around him.  

Quick was on his last broken legs with randall, randall didnt play with carmichael.

And while Arkansas Fred was good doesnt really matter when your o line sucks and your starting RB is anthony toney, heath sherman or a broken down herschel walker.

Not to mention people act like mcnabb had pinkston and thrash for  10 years, his last nfccg he had desean, kevin curtis was good for a year with 1200 yards, brown and stallworth was solid then the year he did have TO mcnabb choked in the biggest game then blew it up the next year because hes a clown.

 

Foles and Hurts......both beat the top QBs to win super bowls.  Foles will always be my favorite.....I think if he had stayed healthier he would have been a long time starter....and playing for horrible teams didn't help either...his agent was a bonehead.

Then, Cunningham and then McNabb.

Cunningham had very little talent around him, year after year with a lousy offensive line, a tumultuous front office, 2 f----- up owners.....Ryan never got him any offensive talent, Kotite was an absolute moron.....Joe Wooley had horrible drafts......it's amazing that Cunningham put up the numbers he did...

so considering the supporting casts each had and what they did with them, I considered switching each QB with each supporting cast...and I came up with'

Cunningham...would have liked to see him play with AJ, Smitty and Barkley

Hurts........the guys just wins.....does what he needs to....unflappable

McNabb.....not good in big games.....couldn't handle pressure.

Foles.....always good in big games.....but a crazy, strange career.

It's easy to look at stat sheets and say, "turnovers = bad." But there is context to turnovers that gets overlooked and not every turnover stat is equal.

For example: McNabb had 2 turnovers in his first NFCCG (vs Rams). Here they are from the play by play:

1	14:49	2	10	PHI 28	0	0	Donovan McNabb sacked by Leonard Little for -8 yards. Donovan McNabb fumbles (forced by Leonard Little), recovered by Brian Young at PHI-21 (tackle by Donovan McNabb)

2nd play from scrimmage in the game and he is strip sacked after a terrible rep from Runyan. 

4	1:55	4	7	PHI 48	24	29	Donovan McNabb pass incomplete intended for Freddie Mitchell is intercepted by Aeneas Williams at STL-34

So ... down 5 points inside the 2 minute warning, 4th and 7 and he at least gets a catchable pass off after scrambling a bit. The coverage was excellent. It's 4th down --- who cares about the INT?

If you want to see the plays, go here: (click "watch on youtube")

I'm not saying a guy is never to blame, but I'm more upset about a QB that doesn't throw on that 4th down than one that throws a pick. 

My opinion of McNabb is he was a talented QB that was incorrectly forced to evolve into a WCO QB. Had he come into the NFL two decades later, he probably would have had an offense designed to take advantage of his strengths. Gruden tried to do the same thing with Cunningham. When I look back on most of those playoff failures, I can't help but blame Andy Reid for some awful gameplans. The NFCCG at the Vet vs Tampa made no sense at all. We dominated the Bucs in the regular season by pounding Duce down their throat and blitzing Brad Johnson the entire game. We were at home. It was below freezing. Instead of repeating the gameplan that worked earlier, Reid did exactly the opposite (49 pass attempts / 18 runs and hardly any blitzing on defense). In the 1st quarter, we even punted from the Tampa 32 yard line instead of attempting a FG at a point where we had a 7-3 lead. But I digress... I think a coach that isn't married to a specific offense like Reid was could have allowed McNabb to have more success. 

12 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

Cunningham...would have liked to see him play with AJ, Smitty and Barkley

Cunningham had great targets to throw to (Quick, Carter, Keith Jackson, Fred Barnett, Byars (probably the best hands I've ever seen on a player)). I just would have liked to have seen Randall have some blocking while he was here (same goes for Byars as a runner). 

5 hours ago, Uscg-green said:

I didn't say it was as good but it was good in it's own right..

In Sirianni's offense, we want to focus on the best playmakers getting the ball. In Pederson's offense, it was about getting everybody the ball. 

Right now, we have Goedert at TE and behind him is Calcaterra. In 2017, We had Ertz, Celek, and Trey Burton at TE. All of them contributed (Celek mostly as a blocker even though he was a very good receiver). We even had Mack Hollins as a promising rookie (pre-surgery). In 2017, we only had 341 completions as a team on 564 attempts. This season we had 303 completions on 448 attempts. So we had 45 less completions on 116 less attempts. That tells you a couple things: 1, our QB play is better now than it was then and 2, The receivers in 2017 could have been more productive with more accurate passing. 

27 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Cunningham had great targets to throw to (Quick, Carter, Keith Jackson, Fred Barnett, Byars (probably the best hands I've ever seen on a player)). I just would have liked to have seen Randall have some blocking while he was here (same goes for Byars as a runner). 

Didn't have much of a running game - Heath Sherman, James Joseph, etc - eventually he got Herschel Walker - that was a fun year. 

12 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Didn't have much of a running game - Heath Sherman, James Joseph, etc - eventually he got Herschel Walker - that was a fun year. 

Again, IMO, that was a result of the worst offensive line in NFL history. 

8 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Actually I think the 2017 offense was pretty similar to 2024 if you delve a bit deeper…

The 2017 line was at least as good if not better as you say.

AJ declined pretty dramatically after 2018, but he put up as good if not better numbers with the Bears than AJ did with the Titans. You also have to factor in Agholor who was really good in 2017. Peak Ertz was better than Goedert.

2024 D is better all round. 

The 2024 OLine is one of the best OLines ever. And considering we lost Kelce to retirement last season that is impressive. And Barkley had an all-time great season. I don't think the 2017 offense is comparable at all. There wasn't any defense in the 2017 SB outside of a couple plays by the Eagles to shift the balance and win the game.