March 8Mar 8 On 2/13/2025 at 6:03 AM, Cochis_Calhoun said: That was always my issue with McNabb, he did play with some crap rosters, but equally after 2004 he never looked like he was taking it seriously or putting the hard yards in to keep himself in shape, he always looked a bit doughy. This is old beef. He never had any receivers..until he got Owens. Not that I am rooting for him, because personally I do not like the guy...But watching his every game..I remember clearly the old issues.
March 8Mar 8 On 2/22/2025 at 11:36 AM, ManchesterEagle said: Jackson was a 3 time first team all pro. So not remotely mediocre. Barnett was a top 10 WR in the league. Byars caught a load of balls. Williams was a good number 2. He had Herschel Walker and Heath Sherman at running back. These guys were not mediocre - you got that wrong. Look at McNabb’s early wide receivers for mediocre. The O-line was bad though and the coaching never took advantage of the immense talent on that team from 1988-1992. Randall sadly didn’t have his best year until much later with the Vikings. He was great, but could have been so much better. Heath Sherman was absolutely mediocre. I agree with the rest though. The biggest issue in the discussion regarding Cunningham is that their OL was always one of the very worst in the league. Even when they tried to fix it, they overpaid for awful in Ron Solt.
March 8Mar 8 1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said: Heath Sherman was absolutely mediocre. I agree with the rest though. The biggest issue in the discussion regarding Cunningham is that their OL was always one of the very worst in the league. Even when they tried to fix it, they overpaid for awful in Ron Solt. Yeah that’s probably fair. I liked Sherman and he was a good draft pick, but the reality is that he was a good number 2 RB rather than a really good player. Such a frustrating team in general though round then. Looked like world beaters at times but had some really bad runs and never looked a real threat to win it all.
March 8Mar 8 6 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said: Yeah that’s probably fair. I liked Sherman and he was a good draft pick, but the reality is that he was a good number 2 RB rather than a really good player. Such a frustrating team in general though round then. Looked like world beaters at times but had some really bad runs and never looked a real threat to win it all. I liked the "Sherman Tank" too... but he was a Kenny Gainwell, at best. But, as far as greatness? He only had a great nickname. Beyond that, he was meh.
March 8Mar 8 The problem with McNabb propagandists wearing sackcloth and ashes over Pinkston and Thrash is this: He had TO and instead of being a friend and a leader, he was a tormentor and a toddler. No one did more to drive TO away than #5 He had DJ and Maclin at the end and he scored 7 total points in back to back playoff games vs Dallas. Its not that Hank Baskett was not good enough with Kevin Curtis and DJ to help win a SB in 2008. It was that McNabb tackled him with a shoelaces catch because he was always an inferior mechanics passer and that got worse under playoff pressure. They beat Arizona 48-20 and Pittsburgh 15-3 in the regular season. The playoff difference was playoff McNabb. McNabb's top 4 targets in 2009 had 24 TDs and about 3300 yards (between McNabb, Vick, and Kolb) DJ, Celek at 24, Maclin, and Avant. He had Shady at RB with a 30 year old fading Westbrook. He led his team to ZERO points in a week 17 playoff game vs Dallas. He led his team to 7 in all but 3 plays in the actual Dallas playoff game. Vick got 7 in 3 plays. He was inferior. He was bad. He was never up to the task.
March 8Mar 8 2 hours ago, SkippyX said: He had TO and instead of being a friend and a leader, he was a tormentor and a toddler. No one did more to drive TO away than #5 Please spare us the "TO was an angel" routine. That guy threw several QBs under the bus and burned several bridges on his career path --- he did so much damage that no team wanted claim him as a charity case and buy him a bus ticket to the HOF induction. IMO, McNabb was proof that offenses should be designed around the QB as opposed to making everybody a WCO guy. Reid is to blame for McNabb's failures because no matter what didn't work, Reid kept forcing it with the play-calling. Short passes are not "an extension on the running game," they are clearly an extension of the passing game. Sirianni's philosophy is > Reid's philosophy.
March 8Mar 8 5 minutes ago, brkmsn said: Please spare us the "TO was an angel" routine. That guy threw several QBs under the bus and burned several bridges on his career path --- he did so much damage that no team wanted claim him as a charity case and buy him a bus ticket to the HOF induction. IMO, McNabb was proof that offenses should be designed around the QB as opposed to making everybody a WCO guy. Reid is to blame for McNabb's failures because no matter what didn't work, Reid kept forcing it with the play-calling. Short passes are not "an extension on the running game," they are clearly an extension of the passing game. Sirianni's philosophy is > Reid's philosophy. TO was a bad guy. The "TO angel" is a weird straw man in your mind. McNabb did everything he could to throw away that bag guy who was also a top 10 WR of all time. You don't get to cry Pinkston when McNabb not only did not fight for TO, he kicked him out of the plane.
March 8Mar 8 1 minute ago, SkippyX said: TO was a bad guy. The "TO angel" is a weird straw man in your mind. McNabb did everything he could to throw away that bag guy who was also a top 10 WR of all time. You don't get to cry Pinkston when McNabb not only did not fight for TO, he kicked him out of the plane. I'm one of the few people that don't hate Pinkston, actually. He wasn't as good as I hoped he would become, but wasn't as bad as people pretend he was. Even guys like James Thrash and Greg Lewis were serviceable players. Not pro-bowlers or anything, but capable of getting open and catching the ball. I don't even really think Chad Lewis was all that special of a player, but McNabb helped make him into a 3-time pro-bowl and 1-time all pro TE. So you won't see me arguing that McNabb never had weapons. I think more highly of McNabb than you do obviously. But as I stated before, I just believe McNabb was mis-used by Reid. I also think some of McNabb's issues had nothing to do with coaching. He hated being called a "running QB" to the point where he stopped running when there were big plays to be made that way. The other thing I believe is he suffered from anxiety at a time when players were afraid to talk about it. Today, I believe that would be recognized by the team (thanks to players like Brandon Brooks and Lane Johnson) and resources would be available to help him deal with it better. Mentally, you could always see how the more McNabb got hit in the pocket, the worse his foot mechanics would get and that led to frequent worm-burners. I still think I prefer that to Wentz' propensity to overthrow receivers routinely. At least nobody was intercepting that garbage. McNabb had flaws, but was still one of the most successful QBs this franchise had and helped usher in the era of winning records --- which maybe we take for granted now.
March 8Mar 8 McNabb was better than good. He was in that HoVG category. (regular season) I think Randall is a HoF QB (3 seasons in that top 3 MVP consideration) Hurts is on a clear HoF trajectory at 26. Foles played like a HoF player in the 13 biggest games of his life. I don't have an opinion about McNabb causing the team to lose often in the playoffs. Its fact. I don't know why this fact is hard for some people to handle. He threw a pick in the SB. It got called back on a defensive penalty. He threw another pick on the next play. (who's fault is that?) He had a RB underneath (maybe Levens) He put the ball like 2 yards over his head and Bruschi fielded it like a punt. If he does not do those things, that team probably wins the SB. He fumbled inside the 10 on the first drive in the 2001 NFCCG. This led to an easy 7 points for St Louis. That defense gave up 21 points or less in their previous 18 games. They gave up 22 + the McNabb 7 and lost 29-24. You can watch him tackle Hank Baskett in the NFCCG. You can watch him throw the ball to a Packers DB AFTER 4th and 26. These games are on YouTube. McNabb was 5 for 6 for 65 yards on a drive, leading his team down the field trailing by 10 in the NFCCG, It was 1st down at the Tampa 10 with just under 4 minutes to play... The next play was Ronde! I'm taking measurements. McNabb never measured up to winning a SB and it was not due to anything but him. Turnovers kill playoff games. He was a turnover machine. (but not in the regular season, he was very good at low turnovers then)
March 8Mar 8 If you needed McNabb to just be better than Shaun King or Jim Miller or Bad Eli or Tavaris Jackson, he was your guy. McNabb was very good in the 2004 NFCCG. No reason to deny that but that was 1 of his 6 biggest games. If you needed him to beat Kurt Warner the same year he already beat Kurt Warner 48-20. You lose. 2008 was a no great team / best QB wins tournament. McNabb was not good enough. If McNabb manages 13 points in this game, the AZ NFCCG is in Philly. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200812210was.htm
March 8Mar 8 Barnett and Williams were rookie 3rd and 5th round picks in the Ultimate weapon season. Randall did not play much in their 2nd season. Randall was 2nd team all-pro in 1988, 1990, and 1992. He was 1st team all-pro in 1998. He lost out to 1988-1990 career greatness award Joe Montana for 1990 MVP. He was the MVP on the field. He lost out to Terrell Davis in 1998. Davis was Saquon before Saquon. Randall's limitations were he ran into Joe Gibbs and Jimmy Johnson on juggernauts in the playoffs. 1990 DC was on the brink of becoming 1991 DC 1992 Dallas was the first of 3 SBs and 4 NFCCGs in 4 years. 1988 Chicago was on the road, vs that Bears D, in an actual fog. Bears D ranks 1984-1988 3 1 1 1 1 1 4 2 1 2 He should have had a week 1 advantage over LA in 1989 if you just look at rosters. Mike Quick and Cris Carter at WR? Quick got hurt and he had to look to Trash Man Garrity and Ron Johnson. The D gave up 142 on the ground and 400+ overall and the Rams choked them out. Could he have been better? Sure. Was it all on him? Only if you are delusional. Note: Cris Carter was not really Cris Carter until 1992. He went from about 750 a year to 1256 a year. He was an immature drug abuser who needed 6 years and Buddy firing him to become an NFL star. Joe Gibbs and Richie Petitbon shut down the Eagles in the 3rd matchup of 1990. We could pretend it was all Randall but McMahon got a series. He went 0-3 So I can't find a single playoff game that was all on Randall. I have 3 final 4s that McNabb lost with his arm. 2008 was even worse than the score. He threw a pick that was returned about 40 yards but DJ forced a fumble so they got the ball back.
March 8Mar 8 Barnett had more than 6 TDs once. He had 1000+ yards twice. He was a pro bowl WR as the 5th best in yards and 15th in TDs. He was not exactly elite. If you want to list out career impact of the 28 #1 WRs in 1992, Barnett is not going to make your top 20. Calvin Williams was a Thrash. He averaged about 700 and 6 with elite Randall. Keith Jackson was on Miami by 1992. He had a great 868 and 6 rookie season in 1988. He was 629 and 5 the other 3 years. This is good. Its not great. Keith Byars was a 10th overall draft bust who could not run the ball to save his life. He averaged 3.4 a carry through 1990 with a running QB. He averaged 3.8 a carry after Philly. Your team can't draft a decent H-back at 10 overall. It kills the talent level of the team. Byars averaged 505 and 2 as a Philly pass catcher. He was great in Madden on that Randall pass run option, not in real life. The Philly O-line from 1986-1988 was probably the worst 3 year O-line in NFL history. It was just kinda bad after that. They did things like trade for a steroids freak who shrunk, they played a DT as Guard, they spent a pair of 1st round picks for Antone Davis who was probably around 35th best where 56 guys start in the league. The 1986 Eagles O-line gave up 40 more sacks than the next team.
March 9Mar 9 My top 3 are Foles, Hurts, and Cunningham with McNabb as a close 4th. 3 hours ago, SkippyX said: If McNabb manages 13 points in this game, the AZ NFCCG is in Philly. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200812210was.htm Game would still have been in AZ and Eagles still would have been #6 seed even if they beat Washington. Cardinals were a division winner. For all we know, if they had won that game, Cowboys may have came more ready to play knowing Eagles would be in a win-and-you're-in game instead of needing help before the game against Cowboys. 4 hours ago, brkmsn said: IMO, McNabb was proof that offenses should be designed around the QB as opposed to making everybody a WCO guy. Reid is to blame for McNabb's failures because no matter what didn't work, Reid kept forcing it with the play-calling. Short passes are not "an extension on the running game," they are clearly an extension of the passing game. Sirianni's philosophy is > Reid's philosophy. For all we know, Reid may have turned Hurts into McNabb 2.0 and do more passing like when he was with Philly.
March 9Mar 9 1. Hurts 2. McNabb 3. Cunningham Weirdly if we were just going best seasons Wentz might be near the top ha
March 10Mar 10 Cunningham, McNabb, Hurts in no particular order. Foles is there too. So I have four in my top three. 😂
March 12Mar 12 6 hours ago, Erie said: Well, after yesterday, Pickett comes off the Mount Rushmore of Eagles' QBs. It shouldn't be hard to turn that sculpture into Minshew (who is available again).
March 12Mar 12 13 hours ago, brkmsn said: It shouldn't be hard to turn that sculpture into Minshew (who is available again). Just tape a mustache on Pickett's bust and throw a bandana on top of it.
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