What move jump started this Eagles team?

[Procus]

I was having a talk with somebody about this tonite.  Eagles took a couple of steps down after the 2017 team.  By the Covid year 2020, the wheels fell off, Dougie was fired, and Wentz wanted out.  It looked like a multi year rebuild was in the offing.  But by 2021, the team was in the playoffs, and 2022, the SB.  With a few more moves, this monster of a roster was assembled and the results speak for themselves.

But going back to the question in the title - I'd say drafting Jalen Hurts in 2020 spun the wheels in motion.  The headlines and fans were screaming about the Justin Jefferson, Jalen Reagor fiasco.  But as so often happens, the importance of drafting Hurts, who grew into being the team's franchise QB, etc. fell under the radar.  This move facilitated Wentz' exit from the organization which in turn jump started a series of Howie trades that built a dominant roster.  But the transformative move was having the gonads to draft Hurts in the second round and recognizing the simmering issues with Wentz.  Dougie's leadership, not being bolstered by a stronger coaching staff, faltered along with the team.  Some house cleaning was in order.  Hurts survived and became a cornerstone of the team going forward. 

To me, it all began with the drafting of Hurts in the second round.  A gutsy move that paid off handsomely.

Any different thoughts?

[opa-opa]

I have to agree. Drafting a franchise QB in the second round usually sets up a team for long term success.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Yeah I mean drafting Hurts has to be the one right? Franchise QB who’s won so many games since becoming the starter. He turned around the direction of this team and also made it an attractive destination for FAs like Barkley. His drive also helped take this team from a SB loss to winning the SB. 

Another big move was of course the Wentz trade to Indy. Huge move where we had to eat some real cap hit in doing so. But what Howie then did with those picks really bolstered this roster with some high end young talent.

[time2rock]

There can be only 1 ... 

 

[ManchesterEagle]

Everyone knows I’m a big Hurts supporter. But I’ve got to say I was not a fan of the pick at the time. Wentz had just had a good year with limited weapons. It’s clear however that there were some underlying issues. 
But getting a franchise QB in the second is huge. We’ve paid him now but the contract hasn’t properly kicked in yet and he didn’t take up much cap space last year.

The Wentz and Saints trades were also huge. Helped us get AJ Brown. Getting Carter after going to the Super Bowl is incredible as well. Finally the additions of Mitchell, Cooper, Barkley and Baun this year put us over the top.

[time2rock]

The move to deal Wentz to the Colts has to be a close 2nd.  That singular move set in motion the subsequent moves to land Carter, Brown, Smitty, and Coop.  Hard to think we are playing for a championship without all of them on the roster.  
 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

The move to deal Wentz to the Colts has to be a close 2nd.  That singular move set in motion the subsequent moves to land Carter, Brown, Smitty, and Coop.  Hard to think we are playing for a championship without all of them on the roster.  
 

Completely agree with you! What Howie was able to get for Carson and what he did with those picks was huge and paved the way for where we are now. I guess though the Hurts pick led to Wentz wanting out and us getting those picks.

[EagleJoe8]

It has to be said that Wentz wanting out was a major part of this. It’s one thing to say drafting Hurts worked out, but Wentz was still the expected starter when Sirianni was hired. Wentz even met with Siri but he still wanted out. Had that not happened, we have no way of knowing when, or even if Hurts gets the chance in the first place. 

[Lambo]

Drafting Carson Wentz was the starting point for the Eagles winning both Super Bowls.

[Portyansky]

I mean, we can go back as far as we want.... drafting Hurts, trading Wentz, Lurie buying the team.... if you're specifically talking about this current team... figuring out we're a running team after the bye.

[EagleJoe8]

Just now, Portyansky said:

I mean, we can go back as far as we want.... drafting Hurts, trading Wentz, Lurie buying the team.... if you're specifically talking about this current team... figuring out we're a running team after the bye.

Yup. That’s why I save time and just go all the way back to the Big Bang. Makes everything easier. 

[Procus]

1 hour ago, EagleJoe8 said:

It has to be said that Wentz wanting out was a major part of this. It’s one thing to say drafting Hurts worked out, but Wentz was still the expected starter when Sirianni was hired. Wentz even met with Siri but he still wanted out. Had that not happened, we have no way of knowing when, or even if Hurts gets the chance in the first place. 

But my question is whether team management saw the writing on the wall with Wentz before Hurts was drafted.

[Procus]

42 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Yup. That’s why I save time and just go all the way back to the Big Bang. Makes everything easier. 

What about the singularity that some theorize preceded the big bang?  What about if the singularity was preceded by a big crunch?

[Mike030270]

Getting Brown

[ManchesterEagle]

8 minutes ago, Procus said:

But my question is whether team management saw the writing on the wall with Wentz before Hurts was drafted.

I think they must have done to a degree.

Although it was presented as drafting a back up, there is no way a team uses a second round pick on a back up (particularly as Hurts was seen as a developmental QB).

At the very least they must have had serious doubts about Wentz and wanted a plan B.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

29 minutes ago, Procus said:

But my question is whether team management saw the writing on the wall with Wentz before Hurts was drafted.

OG Wade would say absolutely. He would say they always drafted Hurts to be the starter. I’m not so sure myself. I think he was an insurance policy with the likelihood at the time being a cheap back up.

[gameshowfan91]

Jump Start 1: Hiring Chip Kelly in 2013. He caused the team to change the way they did things. Before this hire, Lurie still gave head coaches GM powers. Chip turned Howie into a better GM. Howie lost GM job in 2015, and he's been the best GM since then. Now, Lurie doesn't give head coaches GM powers anymore. Eagles have gotten less selfish players since Chip's firing. Chip's playbook helped Foles be Super Bowl MVP in Super Bowl LII. He got Eagles the best OL coach in Jeff Stoutland. Had they kept Andy Reid or hired Gus Bradley, who some of us wanted, myself included, would the Eagles to be the team they are today? Would Lurie or Howie have changed? It was a blessing in disguise Eagles couldn't draft Russell Wilson because he might have been good enough for Andy Reid to keep his job.

Jump Start 2: Drafting Jalen Hurts/trading Carson Wentz and letting go of Doug Pederson. Many people, myself included, hated Jalen Hurts picks and wanted Denzel Mims instead. Hurts have Improved tremendously since getting drafted. Wentz trade has gotten them a bunch of players. Having Hurts meant they weren't tied to Wentz. Many teams would have been content with Doug and Wentz; getting rid of them led Eagles to another Super Bowl win.

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, Procus said:

But my question is whether team management saw the writing on the wall with Wentz before Hurts was drafted.

I think the fact that they expected him to be on board after Siri was hired would suggest not. I think they saw Hurts in the Taysom Hill Jack of all trades role while also being an insurance policy for future Wentz injuries. I don’t think they foresaw Hurts being what he is. 

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, Procus said:

What about the singularity that some theorize preceded the big bang?  What about if the singularity was preceded by a big crunch?

Good point. 

[Procus]

21 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I think the fact that they expected him to be on board after Siri was hired would suggest not. I think they saw Hurts in the Taysom Hill Jack of all trades role while also being an insurance policy for future Wentz injuries. I don’t think they foresaw Hurts being what he is. 

Here's the thing - if there was a QB in the draft this year with the upside that Hurts had back in 2020 and he was available in the second round, I don't believe there's any way he gets drafted.  That move is a signal to your starting QB to shape up or get shipped out.  Having a young QB entrenched as the franchise QB normally would work against using a high pick on a QB.  The locker room was not in good shape when Hurts was drafted.

[NOTW]

You mean what led to this 2024 Eagles team winning, as opposed to the 2022 team that made the Super bowl? Or the key move after the 2018 run it back campaign didn't work, to get them back to a SB win? It seems the replies are about the period after the first SB win so I'll go there. (This specific 2024 team was a combo of hiring Fangio, bringing back CJGJ, Baun, the draft additions to the previous couple draft classes for a young, hungry defense).

If I have to pick one thing: learning from the Jefferson/Reagor pick and changing draft philosophy

Why not the Hurts pick?

The Hurts pick was gutsy after signing Wentz, but they already had a history of acquiring QBs and moving on from the starter when needed. Howie saw Reid draft Kolb in the 2nd round when they had McNabb, Foles in the 3rd round when they had Vick. They had Sam Bradford and signed Chase Daniels and made that series of trades to get #2 and take Carson Wentz. At the time, Howie said they want to be a "QB University." The HC, OC and QB coach were all former QBs and Chase Daniel was to be a sort of players coach (they later did the same with Josh McCown). They wanted to focus on the most important position and have solid backups. Then he used the QB factory phrase after drafting Hurts, saying you can always use QBs as trade assets as well. Obviously he had Foles win the SB as a backup. So drafting Hurts wasn't that unusual given their history at the QB position.

Long version of why I think learning from the Jefferson/Reagor pick was the most impactful.

Howie learned from his mistakes throughout his career here, especially when he had his "year off" when Chip took over. He used the opportunity to learn from successful GMs from other sports and really reflect on his mindset and process. The team finally won a SB so they were eager to run it back. He traded out of the 1st. Without pressure of a higher 1st round pick and riding the high of the SB, he stuck to the board and made solid picks. Goedert, Maddox, Sweat, Pryor and the gamble on Mailata. No real reaches. Trading back to acquire future picks. But in 2019 he realized they needed to get younger. He tried to draft clones of players. Dillard for Peters, JJAW for Alshon, he did hit on Miles Sanders. But he also didn't have as many picks, they were traded away. Then in 2020 he tried to compensate for lack of speed by drafting all the speed and using 4 different draft picks on WR position (3 selections, 1 trade to the 49ers for Marquis Goodwin). The picks on defense were horrible for several seasons. He focused on drafting offense high, defense mid to late rounds who were scrubs paired with veterans from free agency and trade. The one year he did well, he got Sweat and Maddox in the 4th round, which as I said I think it was less pressure after winning the SB and sticking to the board of guys to develop behind the starters.

The national criticism it brought changed Howie's draft approach. Even game broadcasts would put up graphics if his bad drafting in recent years. Lurie doesn't like his team getting that kind of negative attention on live TV. Howie was already great at the salary cap, contract negotiations, and making good trades. He needed to improve in the draft, especially on defense. He had a few hits in the draft but too many misses, or he would take a guy that was a decent starter but miss out on a much better player. Every team has this, but the defensive drafting was really bad for a long time so they were relying on free agents and scraps. The criticism from the Jefferson pick impacted Howie a lot. I also credit Lurie for sticking with Howie. 

We always joke that Howie learning to draft was like Happy Gilmore learning to putt. He combined savvy trades to collect future picks and work the board to get star talent several years in a row. Focusing on stronger "pro ready" schools or players from teams that won championships so they know what it takes to win. We have to also credit Siri because of his evaluations of players and looking for winning mindset, toughness, character, leadership. Going from one of the worst defenses to the #1 defense with a series of strong moves this offseason put them over the top as opposed to the last 2 years. We also joke about the "collaboration" they always talk about, but you really do need that. The GM has to work with the scouts and coaches to build the draft board. They have that "red star" player thing, where the scouts get to make their case for the guy they really love. They seem to have found a balance and a formula. Every team has misses, and every team has guys that project well but don't work out. But in recent years, they've improved to get more hits than misses and build a solid young foundation from the draft, mixed with veterans brought in from other teams.

[NOTW]

Also zooming out, the organization has had a lot of success since Lurie bought them. Brought a winning culture. The facilities and the non-football aspects are known to be a very well run organization. Free agents from other teams have often commented on what a great organization it is. They break the bank to pay for players and take care of them. They do great charity work.

Lurie isn't afraid to fire coaches who are popular or had success. He also isn't afraid to hire coaches that others don't think are good choices. Reid was criticized for never being a coordinator and media mocked him for having a binder with a plan. Doug was criticized for saying "gosh" in a press conference, how can he lead men? He won a Super Bowl. Siri was criticized for a bad opening press conference, wearing player t-shirts and using a flower analogy. He had a lot of maturing to do, he had to move past the emotional outbursts and overly aggressive game decisions. Like Howie, he learned from his mistakes and grew. He appeared in the SB his 2nd season and won in his 4th. 

Lurie brought a winning culture after a long history of losing seasons and let downs. 

[D-Shiznit]

We got an MVP QB at pick 53. That's it, that's the jump start.

[time2rock]

4 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Yup. That’s why I save time and just go all the way back to the Big Bang. Makes everything easier. 

Bazinga!!

[pgcd3]

How about Chip hiring Jeff Stoutland and then drafting Lane Johnson?