Wentz or Foles

7 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

QBs don't face other QBs. They face opposing defenses. When Randall played, the NFC absolutely dominated the league. The NFC East was the toughest division in football. Washington, dallas, and NYG were not perennial bottom-feeders and the Cardinals were typically average. Defenses were allowed to hit QBs.

In the context of this thread, the hypothetical does matter. In reality, it does not, but this thread is 100% about the hypothetical. Randall was one of the elite QBs of his era and often helped his offense out-score opponents despite having the worst O-line in NFL history. His passing and running was the whole offense. He was a 3 time All Pro QB. He was never unwilling to sacrifice his body on a play in an era where there were almost no limits how defenders could hit you.

I believe RC would do just fine in Jalen's setting with a coach that designed an offense 100% around the things he wants to do. Cunningham had to deal with a HC and OC that gave him conflicting instructions and the tragic loss of QB coach, Doug Scovil who was doing a great job developing him.

Even in the hypothetical situations you have to take all into account and the bottom line is when it matter most Randall didn’t deliver. Weather it was against the great quarterbacks or the great teams he faced in games that mattered most his team came up short. And most of this stuff you bring up to try and defend him feels like a bunch of excuses. I mean should the Eagles winning that snow game against the Rams (another reason why home playoff games matter) not count because the snow came in later? So to hear that it’s not fair to judge because Randall had to play in the Fog game. Perhaps Randall should’ve done more to ensure his team had the lead before the Fog rolled in. Or maybe Randall could have done more to lead his team into a position where they don’t have to play in Chicago that season. 🤷 Assuming Randall would just click and be good in this era is at best an assumption, because I also remember Randall bucking good coaching in his career too.

5 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Even in the hypothetical situations you have to take all into account and the bottom line is when it matter most Randall didn’t deliver. Weather it was against the great quarterbacks or the great teams he faced in games that mattered most his team came up short. And most of this stuff you bring up to try and defend him feels like a bunch of excuses. I mean should the Eagles winning that snow game against the Rams (another reason why home playoff games matter) not count because the snow came in later? So to hear that it’s not fair to judge because Randall had to play in the Fog game. Perhaps Randall should’ve done more to ensure his team had the lead before the Fog rolled in. Or maybe Randall could have done more to lead his team into a position where they don’t have to play in Chicago that season. 🤷 Assuming Randall would just click and be good in this era is at best an assumption, because I also remember Randall bucking good coaching in his career too.

I never blamed the fog for the fog bowl. I said we had 3 TD passes called back because of penalties and Jackson dropped one in the endzone. Hard to Blame RC for that or for Heath Sherman's 2 fumbles against the rams.

It would not be an "assumption" in a hypothetical. It would be a hypothesis. Neither Jalen nor Randall are "system" fit QBs and hypothetically there's no evidence to suggest Jalen wouldn't be replaced by Rodney Peete in a Jon Gruden WCO.

28 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I never blamed the fog for the fog bowl. I said we had 3 TD passes called back because of penalties and Jackson dropped one in the endzone. Hard to Blame RC for that or for Heath Sherman's 2 fumbles against the rams.

It would not be an "assumption" in a hypothetical. It would be a hypothesis. Neither Jalen nor Randall are "system" fit QBs and hypothetically there's no evidence to suggest Jalen wouldn't be replaced by Rodney Peete in a Jon Gruden WCO.

Randall also played Washington in the playoffs and lost. He also got demolished against Dallas. Every one of these playoff games were on the road. Randall had issues with Kotite, too. Under Kotite, Randall probably had some of his best offensive seasons as an Eagle, but Randall still complained. There’s no guarantee that Gruden benches Jalen either, because Jalen doesn’t commit turnovers and he wins football games. Randall won one playoff game in eleven seasons with the Eagles. You’re assuming that Randall could simply join this team and be successful because they have a line, but the game is very different from the one Randall played. So defenses could basically beat a team up to win the game, but now defensive coordinators have to be more strategic. Who is to say Randall could read the defenses of today? Randall had many double digit interception seasons. I don’t see how I can realistically choose Cunningham for a major playoff run, when he’s never had one and all I see is excuses as to why he didn’t. The sad thing is for me Randall out of all of these quarterbacks is the QB of m youth and as such my favorite of them all.

Isn’t Tanner McKee missing from this list? 😉

Though I'd take Vick with a better QB brain over everyone if it was possible

10 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Randall also played Washington in the playoffs and lost. He also got demolished against Dallas. Every one of these playoff games were on the road. Randall had issues with Kotite, too. Under Kotite, Randall probably had some of his best offensive seasons as an Eagle, but Randall still complained. There’s no guarantee that Gruden benches Jalen either, because Jalen doesn’t commit turnovers and he wins football games. Randall won one playoff game in eleven seasons with the Eagles. You’re assuming that Randall could simply join this team and be successful because they have a line, but the game is very different from the one Randall played. So defenses could basically beat a team up to win the game, but now defensive coordinators have to be more strategic. Who is to say Randall could read the defenses of today? Randall had many double digit interception seasons. I don’t see how I can realistically choose Cunningham for a major playoff run, when he’s never had one and all I see is excuses as to why he didn’t. The sad thing is for me Randall out of all of these quarterbacks is the QB of m youth and as such my favorite of them all.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm speaking hypothetically. RC had 7 "double digit interception seasons" Joe Montana had 8. Dan Marino had 14. Tom Brady had 12.

dallas won the division that year, beat the Eagles and 49ers in the playoffs and won the Super Bowl. They were a way better team.

Hypothetically I like the idea of Randall Cunningham having even just a solid O-line, a premium RB and a coach that would let him run read option plays and RPOs. Hypothetically, I think this offense would be a great fit for him. I believe RC has the edge on Jalen when it comes to extending plays. We see Jalen often leave a pocket (under pressure) roll to one side, keep going, keep going and then just before stepping out of bounds, throw it away. He extends plays just to get rid of the ball (lose a down). Maybe one of the reasons Cunningham was better at it was because he very rarely had blocking and was forced to make plays in those situations. Another reason was because he had the arm to get the ball deep late. Jalen doesn't have a noodle arm like some want to claim, but Cunningham could get 70 air yards without much effort.

The bottom line is that hypothetically this team could make RC look even better than he did when he played. Realistically, it didn't and won't happen. Jalen is the guy we have now and we've had great success with him to this point. I never really answered the question of this topic because you confused assumptions with hypotheticals. I would 100% pick the 2022 version of Jalen Hurts when he ran with purpose, finished runs and was brilliant on read options. The version we have seen to date this season that slides for losses and extends plays to simply throw the ball away, I would trade for 1990 RC if time travel was real.

Hurts and Foles. They have ice water in their veins the entire game, no matter if its going good or bad. I believe that is 70% of playoff game wins- ICE WATER In YOUR VEINS. Plus, the Eagles have MORE players like that, too.

On 1/5/2026 at 1:10 AM, EazyEaglez said:

Just to give some extra credit to McNabb, I don’t know if any of these quarterbacks besides McNabb gets to all of those NFC Championship games with the likes of Todd Pinkston, Torrance Small, Charles Johnson, James Thrash, and Freddie Mitchell.

The best retort to the McNabb lickers is always the same thing: GO WATCH THE PLAY!

McNabb was grade Z playoff 💩

RONDE! was just so awful. He was absolutely useless that entire game. Koy Detmer would have done better that day.

Go watch the play

He did not lose those games because of his weapons. He lost them because he was a turnover machine pathetic loser.

He is the only QB in SB history to throw 2 picks on back to back plays.

His pick to Bruschi invalidates his entire resume. Its a routine throw to a back that sails 4 feet over his head.

They are driving for a tie in the SB at that point.

Now its 24-14 with 5:40 left and he takes 3:40 and the 2 minute warning

12 plays and 48 yards before the far too late TD pass.

Go watch the plays

The loser even tried to blow the 4th and 26th but the Packer dropped the ball in the end zone.

Go watch the play.

The fumble against the Rams was just so hideous. 7 free points in a 5 point NFCCG loss.

Go watch the play

The Hank Baskett shoestring throw vs AZ by itself makes him a loser.

Go watch the play

Add it all together and he is rancid playoff garbage.

Now if he is battling Shawn King or Jim Miller or Tavaris Jackson then maybe he's good enough.

If he's got 2 games to put up a combined 10+ against the Cowboys... He is not your guy.

His WEAPONS were DJ, Maclin, Celek, Avant, and Westbrook. He was still ass.

Vick played 3 snaps and hit Maclin for 76 yards.

8 hours ago, SkippyX said:

The best retort to the McNabb lickers is always the same thing: GO WATCH THE PLAY!

McNabb was grade Z playoff 💩

RONDE! was just so awful. He was absolutely useless that entire game. Koy Detmer would have done better that day.

Go watch the play

He did not lose those games because of his weapons. He lost them because he was a turnover machine pathetic loser.

He is the only QB in SB history to throw 2 picks on back to back plays.

His pick to Bruschi invalidates his entire resume. Its a routine throw to a back that sails 4 feet over his head.

They are driving for a tie in the SB at that point.

Now its 24-14 with 5:40 left and he takes 3:40 and the 2 minute warning

12 plays and 48 yards before the far too late TD pass.

Go watch the plays

The loser even tried to blow the 4th and 26th but the Packer dropped the ball in the end zone.

Go watch the play.

The fumble against the Rams was just so hideous. 7 free points in a 5 point NFCCG loss.

Go watch the play

The Hank Baskett shoestring throw vs AZ by itself makes him a loser.

Go watch the play

Add it all together and he is rancid playoff garbage.

Now if he is battling Shawn King or Jim Miller or Tavaris Jackson then maybe he's good enough.

If he's got 2 games to put up a combined 10+ against the Cowboys... He is not your guy.

His WEAPONS were DJ, Maclin, Celek, Avant, and Westbrook. He was still ass.

Vick played 3 snaps and hit Maclin for 76 yards.

I hope you’re not considering me a "McNabb Lucker” cause that ain’t me. Why is it always war with people? Give a player credit and you’re obsessed with them. Give them criticism and you’re a hater. Total nonsense. Say whatever you want about McNabb, but no one else in franchise history has really done some of the stuff he’s done. Frankly McNabb was injured enough in his career for any of his backups to take the reins and become the guy, but they failed. Woulda coulda shoulda is nonsense. I got news for you and everyone else. Every player in the league makes mistakes. No McNabb is not my choice for this question, but seriously picking Carson Wentz over McNabb is a friggin Joke. We are fawning over one season (he didn’t even complete) and ignoring the years of mediocre hero ball and underperforming. McNabb lost his job to a guy who was at one time the first pick taken in the draft and frankly in the decline as a player. Wentz lost his job in his prime to (according to some) a "running back pretending to be a quarterback.” You will never convince me the Carson’s career trumps that of McNabb.

Hurts and Foles have to be top 2. They did it against two of the best of all time

@EazyEaglez Sorry if I was unclear. I sometimes clarify this in a post. I usually respond to the comments and continue the conversation. My comments are almost never directed at one person and almost never an attack at who I am quoting. (unless I make that clear which does happen)

McNabb as a very good QB is 100% propaganda. He was an anchor. This team was less because of him (outside of an incredible 2000 carrying the team and an MVP level 2004 with TO (who he immediately went to war against after)

National media love the guy because Philly fans booed him and they get to pick sides against us.

They also love him because they only saw his highlights and forget all the bad plays in big moments.

5 hours ago, scottr@pictips.com said:

Hurts and Foles have to be top 2. They did it against two of the best of all time

When you dig into Foles record in must win games its just incredible.

You can make a strong case that Foles belongs in the same HoF as Namath, and Boselli, and Jim Kelly.

2013

1 - vs Bears 54-11 win

2 - vs Cowboys 24-22 win

3 - playoff vs Saints 26-24 loss...

He left the field for the last time with the lead and Riley Cooper dropped a perfect crossing route ball in his chest that could have gone for 60+

2017 (they needed to win 2 of 3 for HFA)

4 - at Giants 34-29 win with 4 TD passes

5 - vs Oakland 19-10 (ugly cold night game)

6 - playoffs vs Falcons win

7 - NFCCG vs Vikings win

8 - SB vs NE win

2018 (took over a 6-7 team due to 5-6 Wentz

9 - at Rams 30-23 win

10 - vs Houston 32-30 win

11 - at DC 24-0 win

12 - playoffs at Bears 16-15 (Double Doink with 4th down TD pass)

13 - playoffs vs Saints 20-14 loss (He was driving for the lead at the 2 minute warning and Alshon deflected a perfectly thrown ball to the Saints)

11-2 in the 13 biggest games of his life. 26 TDs to 9 picks plus 1 rushing TD and 1 receiving TD

McNabb was 9-7 in the playoffs and only played 2 must win type games in the regular season.

The Silver Linings Playbook game 44-6 (for the division) and the game before dancing in the tunnel (for a bye) 24-0 Romo

10-8 in his 18 biggest games with 26 TDs and 17 picks and 5 rushing TDs.

I think the fatal flaw in McNabb's game was deciding he didn't want to be called a "running QB." He left a lot of first downs out there by throwing on the run with bad mechanics when there was room to run in front of him. He was also miscast into Reid's WCO. McNabb is another QB that probably would have done even better in an offense that was not a system. Reid sort of ruined him by having him throw so much and trying to turn him into a pocket passer.

I was a big McNabb fan, but he definitely had flaws. I wish he had spent at least one offseason with a QB guru to work on his footwork (something like we saw Jalen do). Then the worms in Philadelphia wouldn't have gone extinct. I also believe he had anxiety issues in an era where fans weren't sympathetic as evidenced by several documented puking incidents on the sidelines --- so he never revealed it openly. But like every starting QB to wear Kelly or Midnight green, there was always a portion of the fan base that underappreciated him and refused to vocally support him for whatever reason.

On a related note, I couldn't care less about T.O. Some fans want to take his side. He's the dude that created sides everywhere he played. He was a whiney little crybaby that literally shed tears in front of a camera for attention. There's a reason why no team offered to foot the bill for a bus ticket so he could attend his HOF induction. He was a complete joke.

13 hours ago, SkippyX said:

@EazyEaglez Sorry if I was unclear. I sometimes clarify this in a post. I usually respond to the comments and continue the conversation. My comments are almost never directed at one person and almost never an attack at who I am quoting. (unless I make that clear which does happen)

McNabb as a very good QB is 100% propaganda. He was an anchor. This team was less because of him (outside of an incredible 2000 carrying the team and an MVP level 2004 with TO (who he immediately went to war against after)

National media love the guy because Philly fans booed him and they get to pick sides against us.

They also love him because they only saw his highlights and forget all the bad plays in big moments.

I’m really not trying to defend McNabb, but I think it’s insane Wentz got more votes than him.

Hurts.